List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[jo172]

Hinge and Keays are going alright.

Keays yes.

Would love for Hinge to get on that Lynch/Jenkins level of being one of the best players in the comp at his position.

 

[DJ75]

The irony is that we were ok at it for a while.

2017 Grand Final Side had

Jenkins
Lynch
Betts
Jacobs
Seedsman

The skill we had in identifying players on the outer at other clubs (particularly in respect of Jenkins and Lynch) to get them to top 10 best and fairest/AA Squad of 40 was a huge competitive advantage that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

And when we do find one, we Stengle it.

Other than Betts, the rest were essentially all fringe players. We didn't bring in elite players on $800k a year.

 

[jo172]

Other than Betts, the rest were essentially all fringe players. We didn't bring in elite players on $800k a year.

Nah, Jacobs and Lynch both made AA-40 squads and Jenkins kicked 40+ goals (including a 62) five years in a row.

That was fantastic recruiting.

 

[Vader]

Nah, Jacobs and Lynch both made AA-40 squads and Jenkins kicked 40+ goals (including a 62) five years in a row.

That was fantastic recruiting.

They developed into those players AFTER moving to Adelaide. They were fringe players at their previous clubs when we traded for them.

 

[Mutineer]

That's why I find it strange we don't appear to have any interest in Michalanney, he seems a more likely type compared to McPherson

He does now but McPherson as a junior prior to the draft was rated higher than Michalanney, most certainly in his underage year and prior to his injury riddled top age year. McPherson as a 17 year old was rated as a potential top 10 prospect going into his top age year by a lot of the recruiters.

 

[jo172]

They developed into those players AFTER moving to Adelaide. They were fringe players at their previous clubs when we traded for them.

The original comparison included Rhys Stanley, Mark Blicavs, Jarryd Lyons and Tyson Stengle. Seem to be well within the range of comparison.

Hell, it also included blokes who were not offered new contracts at their previous clubs or on the way out in Smith, Birchall, Hodge and Gunston.

 

[BunjiMac]

This is funny.

Smith basically useless, Jones questionable, McPherson looks average and Hamill one concussion away from retiring and we are passing on Max.

 

[Vader]

The original comparison included Rhys Stanley, Mark Blicavs, Jarryd Lyons and Tyson Stengle. Seem to be well within the range of comparison.

Hell, it also included blokes who were not offered new contracts at their previous clubs or on the way out in Smith, Birchall, Hodge and Gunston.

I made similar comments about Stengle & the Brisbane group.

However, players like Dangerfield, Cameron, Neale & Daniher were all very high profile, with players at the peak of their powers.

 

[DJ75]

They developed into those players AFTER moving to Adelaide. They were fringe players at their previous clubs when we traded for them.

THIS.

My point was that Geelong and Brisbane have brought in top end talent while at their peak. We didn't.

We recruited fringe players that helped us get to the higher end, but couldn't add top end talent.

 

[DJ75]

This is funny.

Smith basically useless, Jones questionable, McPherson looks average and Hamill one concussion away from retiring and we are passing on Max.

Fair point.

It's pretty remarkable that we are at the bottom end and have been for a while, yet we seem to be so stacked, we can't find any list spots for new players.
How is it? Are we unable to make judgements on players?

I get the guys recruited in the last 2 years. Covid impacted and then they need some development time.
But why would we sign up a guy like McPherson? He's clearly average. He's not the sort of player we need to keep on our list.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Fair point.

It's pretty remarkable that we are at the bottom end and have been for a while, yet we seem to be so stacked, we can't find any list spots for new players.
How is it? Are we unable to make judgements on players?

I get the guys recruited in the last 2 years. Covid impacted and then they need some development time.
But why would we sign up a guy like McPherson? He's clearly average. He's not the sort of player we need to keep on our list.

Our 2021 re-signing blitz has bit us in the ass. Lot of guys that got multi-year deals that shouldn’t have

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

I'm sitting back and watching clubs at the top end of the ladder, such as Geelong and Brisbane, pick up elite free agents and top end young talent, and it has occurred to me that either everyone else is cheating the salary cap like crazy, or we have been one of the worst run clubs list management wise in the AFL.

When we were at the top end, playing finals and hoping to win a premiership, we managed to recruit Betts. Then somehow managed to give up 2 first round picks for a clearly past his best Gibbs.

Imagine if we had been able to add players of the calibre of the following:

Geelong
Blicavs
Stanley
Dangerfield
Tuohy
Jeremy Cameron
Isaac Smith
Stengle

Brisbane
Birchall,
Hodge,
Lachie Neale,
Joe Daniher,
Charlie Cameron,
Marcus Adams,
Jarryd Lyons and now
Dunkley and Gunston.

We really do suck.

You have a point, but it's a pretty disingenuous argument. Stengle and Lyons were delisted so don't count. Blicavs was brought in as a cat B rookie and has only ever played for geelong, so i wouldn't count him either. Stanley is not a high calibre player lol. Adams is't that good either.

Hodge and Birchall went to brisbane for a final payday and Brisbane and to work with Fagan.

geelong would be the best in the league at doing this stuff.

 

[119others]

Is it really a free hit. I might be wrong but assuming he goes at pick 30 - we have to stump up the equivalent of pick 36?

The discount advantage only really works at the higher end doesn’t it?

So would only pick him if he were a need


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correct, of course its not a free hit although you do get a points discount (20% from memory). With Dood and Worrell not sure we need a third tall back unless we really rate him or are prepared to trade out Worrell as part of getting a gun player back?

 

[WeedsMullet84]

You've gotta give it to Geelong. Their whole playing group help out with their recruitment drive.

SEN this morning spoke to Dangerfield and they asked him if it was true that a Mitch Cleary report stated that 'he was a massive fan of Bowes, and Geelong has been into him some time...'

Mitch Cleary has been sprouting this stuff for weeks. Danger clearly gives Mitch the heads up some time ago to plant the seed, then Mitch gets to write 3000 articles about it, then it gets repeated ad nauseam on SEN and other other gutter gossip radio shows, and then they get to interview DAYNJA to confirm WHETHER THIS RUMOUR IS TRUE!!

Massive reach-around, but it looks like it gets the job done for Geelong.

It's crickets out there for us. For a rebuilding side I hope we have our senior players out there making calls to try and get other players on board. Sell the club to them the way other teams do.

 

[119others]

Why the hell does getting rid of rookies like Davis and Turner help??

They'll be trying to trade Crouch, but you need someone to take him.

Crouch (give away), Rowe/Sholl (3/4th rounders) are our most likely trade outs. I would prefer to give McAsey one last year rather than give away for a 3rd rounder. Imagine (small chance) if he comes good after giving him away....

 

[jo172]

You have a point, but it's a pretty disingenuous argument. Stengle and Lyons were delisted so don't count. Blicavs was brought in as a cat B rookie and has only ever played for geelong, so i wouldn't count him either. Stanley is not a high calibre player lol. Adams is't that good either.

Hodge and Birchall went to brisbane for a final payday and Brisbane and to work with Fagan.

geelong would be the best in the league at doing this stuff.

Also if you're going to include Neale might as well include GAblett Jnr. Very unusual cases.

 

[maxlilly]

He does now but McPherson as a junior prior to the draft was rated higher than Michalanney, most certainly in his underage year and prior to his injury riddled top age year. McPherson as a 17 year old was rated as a potential top 10 prospect going into his top age year by a lot of the recruiters.

McPherson has trouble staying on the park and with those injuries, it looks like it has held back his development as he hasn't been able to get any consistency in his game.
I've always had a bit of time for him, as you say, he was highly regarded as a junior but that only gets you so far

 

[119others]

Luke Edwards has at least played AFL, unlike the four guys we took.

Maybe instead of taking the guys that every other club passes on multiple times, we should focus on the players with interest from other clubs

cmon, he aint going to make it. we made the right decision not drafting him

 

[119others]

One of these lists is not like the other.

Geelong are blatantly cheating the salary cap. Many of their recruits were brought in at their absolute prime. Stengle cost them next to nothing, but players like Dangerfield & Cameron were recruited at their peak, and should have been (and still should be) paid an absolute motza.

In contrast, Neale is the only real A-grader that Brisbane brought in at their absolute prime (Dunkley will be the 2nd in this class). Birchall & Hodge went there to play out their last couple of seasons, but were well beyond their prime before they arrived. Gunston is another in the same mold. Cameron went there just before he broke out to become the superstar he is now. Lyons was nothing particularly special at Adelaide or Gold Coast, and didn't cost them a lot to recruit.

correct, also add Selwood, Tomahawk, Stewart (600-800k type players) and I think the Crows need a billionaire patron pulling some strings

 

[119others]

The irony is that we were ok at it for a while.

2017 Grand Final Side had

Jenkins
Lynch
Betts
Jacobs
Seedsman

The skill we had in identifying players on the outer at other clubs (particularly in respect of Jenkins and Lynch) to get them to top 10 best and fairest/AA Squad of 40 was a huge competitive advantage that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

And when we do find one, we Stengle it.

correct and it was Noble doing it. The hate that man gets is unbelievable to me be considering his clear role in helping build a premiership calibre list by shrewd 'money ball' trades. He left us as premiership contenders and then moved to Brissie and did the same thing

 

[conVINCEd]

We need to be delisting and rookie-ing a contracted player or two (Seedsman, McPherson, Sholl, Crouch - probably in that order).

 

[MarcusP2]

correct, also add Selwood, Tomahawk, Stewart (600-800k type players) and I think the Crows need a billionaire patron pulling some strings

With all of the blathering about billionaire patrons it will be interesting to see if Geelong can maintain this list strategy now Costa is gone.

I predict it will have no impact.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DJ75]

You've gotta give it to Geelong. Their whole playing group help out with their recruitment drive.

SEN this morning spoke to Dangerfield and they asked him if it was true that a Mitch Cleary report stated that 'he was a massive fan of Bowes, and Geelong has been into him some time...'

Mitch Cleary has been sprouting this stuff for weeks. Danger clearly gives Mitch the heads up some time ago to plant the seed, then Mitch gets to write 3000 articles about it, then it gets repeated ad nauseam on SEN and other other gutter gossip radio shows, and then they get to interview DAYNJA to confirm WHETHER THIS RUMOUR IS TRUE!!

Massive reach-around, but it looks like it gets the job done for Geelong.

It's crickets out there for us. For a rebuilding side I hope we have our senior players out there making calls to try and get other players on board. Sell the club to them the way other teams do.

I think our senior players are too busy ensuring their own spot in the side. They have no interest in bringing new people in.
Tex has been clear he wants Matt Crouch in the team.

 

[119others]

With all of the blathering about billionaire patrons it will be interesting to see if Geelong can maintain this list strategy now Costa is gone.

I predict it will have no impact.

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Well i would think beneficiaries of Costa would also very likely be Cats supporters. Who wouldn't follow their Dads / GrandDads footy team when he is a multi billionaire.

That said, its only a part (but would think a material part) of their success. Their no ******** policy, excellent and stable admin and coaching. Plus massive home grounds advantage. That said, Wells drafting over many years didnt look great at one stage when I read some analysis on it but the fact they have brought in Danger (Brownlow following year), Cameron (probably best forward in the game), Smith (Norm Smith winner) along with Touhy and some shrewd picks ups like Stengle and Stewart means as a club they seem to nail most parts of the success equation

 

[jo172]

The extent of the homeground advantage is huge.

There was a stat going around that Selwood won something like 111/135 of his matches at Kardinia Park (and in some respects you would have thought he'd win even more).

Huge in an equalised competition and hard to think there'd be a record like that in any comp in the world.