List Mgmt. 2022 List Management: Draft, Trade and FA

[Midnite65]

I agree he is better than any other ruck i've seen at the same age.

If we play him in his best position where does Darcy play and does that make us a better team? While I do see the argument of getting quality when it is guaranteed to you, it is a firm no from me.

Jackson is going to be our Blicavs but even better.

 

[Scham]

I read somewhere on here today about how apparently key forwards quite often don't start showing much until they hit 24 yo, and yet now I'm reading Jackson being written off as a key forward already and he's 20!???

 

[Descent]

Jackson is going to be our Blicavs but even better.

He’s going to be Nic Nat minus the Brad Hill

 

[Cobbler]

Spot on - 2x 1st round picks that will be both in the 14-18 range for a talent like Jackson who is essentially a hybrid mid-ruck-ruck rover, can mark around the ground and break lines.
No fckn brainer, now is the time to top up with a player like him for a couple of picks in the teens.
No forwards available that you would give be or would get with that kind of currency and no standout KPF’s in this years draft that would step up in 2 years when we have another 1st rounder should we give up this years and next.

He’s not even a ‘top up’. He’s 20 and will spend the best past of 10 years at Freo.

The time for top ups may be in 2 years when we’re really pushing and we go chips in and attempt to lure that proven KF… if that’s what we need at that time.

 

[tonygeeks]

Haven’t done this since I wrote down everyone’s user name who wanted to keep Ross Lyon ( I’ve still got that list BTW )

I’m writing down everyone’s name who doesn’t want Luke f***ing Jackson

 

[sherrif]

I agree he is better than any other ruck i've seen at the same age.

If we play him in his best position where does Darcy play and does that make us a better team? While I do see the argument of getting quality when it is guaranteed to you, it is a firm no from me.

I think he turns our ruck combination into a deadset weapon. Jackson and Darcy can work over the opposition 1st ruck and then dominate whenever the second opposition ruck is operating. I can see a 60/40 rotation working with Sean having the most time in ruck. I also think Luke already does a good job forward when he plays outside the forward 50. I'd play him further up the ground and basically as a high half forward when not rucking. That way we have an option to kick long down the line with more success as Luke's already great at contesting in the air and he'll clunk a few more as he develops. Personally I think he fills a desperate need to improve our aerial ability around the ground and will also assist filling another huge need in improving our centre clearances. Sean's good enough as a forward to spend 15% of game time there at least.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I read somewhere on here today about how apparently key forwards quite often don't start showing much until they hit 24 yo, and yet now I'm reading Jackson being written off as a key forward already and he's 20!???

Twas me, trying to look for a bargain for trade and noted the recent break out years of Wright (24 last year), Fogarty (22 this year) and Marshall (23 this year) when they all looked like various levels of busts until recently.

Jackson SHOULD explode next year or the year after if normal trends are followed.

The interesting thing for me with Jackson is the fact he has such a high 1v1 forward win rate. It seems Melbourne dont use him as much as they should going forward and still think there is some hope he can become actually what we need - a really really good KPF.

 

[ImperialPurple]

He’s going to be Nic Nat minus the Brad Hill

The one he ate you mean?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Haven’t done this since I wrote down everyone’s user name who wanted to keep Ross Lyon ( I’ve still got that list BTW )

I’m writing down everyone’s name who doesn’t want Luke f***ing Jackson

Whats interesting is that the two most vocal critics on the Hogan acquisition (Taylor and Joao) are on opposite sides for this one. One of the two are going to come out ahead on the ledger

 

[Fyfster]

Haven’t done this since I wrote down everyone’s user name who wanted to keep Ross Lyon ( I’ve still got that list BTW )

I’m writing down everyone’s name who doesn’t want Luke f***ing Jackson

Just in case you missed me hand up , Price too high IMHO

 

[Descent]

The one he ate you mean?

I meant the pea heart, but that also works.

 

[nurries]

Some people are just negative about everything. It’s in their DNA and will never change. Even if something is good they will find some way to chop it down

 

[Joao]

Not all inside 50s are created equally. Part of the reason our forward line often looks mediocre is that, by the time it gets there, they’re competing with 18 opposition players. Jackson generates high quality clearances, allowing the ball to enter the forward 50 with speed. Rankine is not a gun small forward if he can’t find any space, Fritsch does his best work in small pack contests, Stengle is benefiting from Geelong’s incredible rebounding from defence. What happens up the ground has a huge impact on how much you can get out of your forward line. When we were dominating clearances against Melbourne, our forward line looked like the best in the competition.

I agree with a lot of that, but to get those quality clearances you need Jackson in the ruck and we are back to trying to figure out how Darcy fits.

I see the point you're making, I think the games where we haven't scored have been primarily because we have been beaten in the middle. The second St Kilda game is a good example of the four seasons in a day of our year on this subject. I'd prefer we don't need to build our game off ball movement from half back like we were doing at the start of the season, then we moved into scoring from stoppages and couldn't transition the footy and I put that primarily down to our midfielders not being as dominant as I'd like.

I don't think we will be able to replace Taberner and Lobb with the value of our two first picks and the trade price for Lobb.

Pretty much, we have to have midfield equality or ascendancy to win against anyone decent as for our forward line is almost as **** as our defense is good.

You need more forward quality for the days (and every team has them every year) where you are not on top for large portions of the game to take whatever chances you do get to keep you in games. Its the reason why West Coast were so effective in the recent past. They could get trounced in the middle and still win because their forward line was amazing. We don't need to stack it that far, but you need a few players that will take their chances 9/10 and we have a bunch of players that take them 7/10. Peak Sonny would be handy for example.

I read somewhere on here today about how apparently key forwards quite often don't start showing much until they hit 24 yo, and yet now I'm reading Jackson being written off as a key forward already and he's 20!???

Generational players start showing it long before 24 in any position. You can make a case he shows generational ruck traits, but you're taking the piss saying he shows it in the forwardline.

He may well grow to becomes a decent/good forward, but at this stage nobody is giddy because of his forward craft, its because of his ability around the ball. You're not throwing 700k at a dude that might be as good as Todd Marshall in 4 years. You're doing it in this case because you think he is Dean Cox good.

Haven’t done this since I wrote down everyone’s user name who wanted to keep Ross Lyon ( I’ve still got that list BTW )

I’m writing down everyone’s name who doesn’t want Luke f***ing Jackson

Make sure you right the context down though, cos I don't want to hear how good Jackson is if we are still kicking 50 points every 5th games because our forwardline is still ****.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

He’s not even a ‘top up’. He’s 20 and will spend the best past of 10 years at Freo.

The time for top ups may be in 2 years when we’re really pushing and we go chips in and attempt to lure that proven KF… if that’s what we need at that time.

He isn’t a top up?? Really, we have hit the draft really well for the past 5 years and he is a top up of elite talent…..
Our drafting could’ve been better if not for the Hogan disaster- of which I was all in for I’ll admit it, knew he loved the nose beers but thought that coming home might straighten him out - you can get the boy out of Marist, but not the Scabs out of the boy….
We are essentially getting another top draft pick for a couple of teens, remains to be seen if he will be a topline forward- but I don’t see us recruiting him to be a KPF.
Agreed you can find great player in the late teens, but they can be found at the beginning of the draft, mid draft and late - I really wanted Chad Warner - went at pick 39!!! There is heaps of stories like this….
I’m all for the picks to get Jackson

 

[Cobbler]

He isn’t a top up?? Really, we have hit the draft really well for the past 5 years and he is a top up of elite talent…..
Our drafting could’ve been better if not for the Hogan disaster- of which I was all in for I’ll admit it, knew he loved the nose beers but thought that coming home might straighten him out - you can get the boy out of Marist, but not the Scabs out of the boy….
We are essentially getting another top draft pick for a couple of teens, remains to be seen if he will be a topline forward- but I don’t see us recruiting him to be a KPF.
Agreed you can find great player in the late teens, but they can be found at the beginning of the draft, mid draft and late - I really wanted Chad Warner - went at pick 39!!! There is heaps of stories like this….
I’m all for the picks to get Jackson

My wording of ‘top up’ may have been miss communicated.

I’m 100% all in on Jackson.

I just meant the term ‘top up’ is what I personally refer to when a team is in a window or has an absolute hole on their list. Usually the ‘top up’ player in that case is like a 26-28 year old where you know what you’re going to get sort of thing. You hope they do a job for 3 or so years.

So I don’t consider Jackson as a ‘top up’ by my own definition. He’s a young talent that we’re poaching.

 

[tonygeeks]

Just in case you missed me hand up , Price too high IMHO

Noted

 

[Fyfster]

He isn’t a top up?? Really, we have hit the draft really well for the past 5 years and he is a top up of elite talent…..
Our drafting could’ve been better if not for the Hogan disaster- of which I was all in for I’ll admit it, knew he loved the nose beers but thought that coming home might straighten him out - you can get the boy out of Marist, but not the Scabs out of the boy….
We are essentially getting another top draft pick for a couple of teens, remains to be seen if he will be a topline forward- but I don’t see us recruiting him to be a KPF.
Agreed you can find great player in the late teens, but they can be found at the beginning of the draft, mid draft and late - I really wanted Chad Warner - went at pick 39!!! There is heaps of stories like this….
I’m all for the picks to get Jackson

He has not actually asked for a trade yet , And if you believe Nissy they will make a play for him , At the moment it is all rumours , And we will have to wait a few weeks to find out . Two picks and a pay packet somewhere around$700k . And I am all in TBH . But just not the money that's been rumoured it's way overs

 

[Cobbler]

He isn’t a top up?? Really, we have hit the draft really well for the past 5 years and he is a top up of elite talent…..
Our drafting could’ve been better if not for the Hogan disaster- of which I was all in for I’ll admit it, knew he loved the nose beers but thought that coming home might straighten him out - you can get the boy out of Marist, but not the Scabs out of the boy….
We are essentially getting another top draft pick for a couple of teens, remains to be seen if he will be a topline forward- but I don’t see us recruiting him to be a KPF.
Agreed you can find great player in the late teens, but they can be found at the beginning of the draft, mid draft and late - I really wanted Chad Warner - went at pick 39!!! There is heaps of stories like this….
I’m all for the picks to get Jackson

I’d consider a Gunston type play as a top up player. 2-3 years. He’ll still be good. But you want to win a flag otherwise what was the point.

OR

A Casboult type that may come for cheap and fills a hole whilst others develop in time for real window in 2-5 years.

Ones expensive with intention to win a flag. The other is cheap with a greater intention to protect other youngsters.

I think it’s too early to go proper top ups.

 

[Deathly]

I don't care about the cost of Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

22

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

anymore $ or picks wise. When it comes to picks, 2x First Rounders in the 12-18 range is nothing really. It's not going to end up like a recent diabolical trade that was manufactured for selling memberships at the cost of a key player when we were absolutely nowhere near it as a club.

We have essentially 3x first rounders from the 2021 draft sitting in Peel developing and have a strong knack for hitting picks in the later rounds anyways, Also evident from this 2022 season, we don't need to be so precious with our first rounders when we're actually approaching striking range for sustained finals and a flag.

 

[tonygeeks]

I agree with a lot of that, but to get those quality clearances you need Jackson in the ruck and we are back to trying to figure out how Darcy fits.

Pretty much, we have to have midfield equality or ascendancy to win against anyone decent as for our forward line is almost as **** as our defense is good.

You need more forward quality for the days (and every team has them every year) where you are not on top for large portions of the game to take whatever chances you do get to keep you in games. Its the reason why West Coast were so effective in the recent past. They could get trounced in the middle and still win because their forward line was amazing. We don't need to stack it that far, but you need a few players that will take their chances 9/10 and we have a bunch of players that take them 7/10. Peak Sonny would be handy for example.


Generational players start showing it long before 24 in any position. You can make a case he shows generational ruck traits, but you're taking the piss saying he shows it in the forwardline.

He may well grow to becomes a decent/good forward, but at this stage nobody is giddy because of his forward craft, its because of his ability around the ball. You're not throwing 700k at a dude that might be as good as Todd Marshall in 4 years. You're doing it in this case because you think he is Dean Cox good.

Make sure you right the context down though, cos I don't want to hear how good Jackson is if we are still kicking 50 points every 5th games because our forwardline is still ****.

You’re looking at it with a very narrow viewpoint

Darcy’s more likely to be obsolete than Jackson in 4 yrs

Look at that Leek Alir lad the other day , a foot taller than poor old Banners but was faster and beating him for ground balls

It’s a genetic arms race and you need 2m mobile talls

We have Pearce and Tabs lol

 

[sherrif]

3.5 minutes of handballs. Couple good taps. A good goal. Lots of good athleticism. Not anything close to worth a mil a year though.

I'll respectfully disagree then. I can't remember too many 20 year old rucks having 21 possessions in a game most of which were high quality looking at those highlights.

 

[Cobbler]

I don't care about the cost of Luke Jackson anymore $ or picks wise. When it comes to picks, 2x First Rounders in the 12-18 range is nothing really. It's not going to end up like a recent diabolical trade that was manufactured for selling memberships at the cost of key players in the past when we were absolutely nowhere near it as a club.

We have essentially 3x first rounders from the 2021 draft sitting in Peel developing and have a strong knack for hitting picks in the later rounds anyways, Also evident from this 2022 season, we don't need to be so precious with our first rounders when we're actually approaching striking range for sustained finals and a flag.

I’m with you. There’s no point parking excess first rounders in the WAFL. Well I mean sure they need to develop but at some stage you could go too young and we’re probably at that point.

The current team will need to accommodate: Erasmus, Johnson, Henry, Amiss who all have talent to burn.

Sturt is still a talent.

We don’t have many exiting over the next 2-3 years.

 

[Ge3ks]

 

[Taylor]

Whats interesting is that the two most vocal critics on the Hogan acquisition (Taylor and Joao) are on opposite sides for this one. One of the two are going to come out ahead on the ledger

There can be only one.

 

[Joao]

You’re looking at it with a very narrow viewpoint

Darcy’s more likely to be obsolete than Jackson in 4 yrs

How is it narrow? I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that 24yo 2021 AA squad ruckman might still be a good player at 28. If it turns out he is a spud then then Jackson makes a lot more sense.

Anyway, I've had enough. I can't make it clearer without just writing out a syllogism and who could be bothered. If you're not convinced now you won't be until he rolls his car.

The dude is apparently a so lets get behind him.

My price for compliance is that I insist we draft at least 2 forwards (and not a midfielder that rested there for 20 minutes a game in juniors) every year until we hit another 2xSonny at pick 50odd so we can score again.