Player Watch 2023 AFL Draft Pool Discussion Thread

[Strapping Young Lad]

Same rule applies to this thread as other years, keep it on topic about the kids.
Don’t get bogged down on what other teams might do or where they will finish.

Trade speculation belongs here.
That's also where you can discuss your mock drafts or pick trades.

Any McCabe, Dear or Maginness talk belongs here.

 

[Brishawk]

Would anyone have taken picket in the top three of his draft (went pick 12)? How about Josh Rachelle (went pick 6)?

For anyone who wants to take Watson at 3, why is it do you think he is the third best player in this draft?

 

[TDS7]

I've watched a few of Caddy's games and I think he is absolutely a key forward. I don't think there's a better pack mark in the draft. The Curnow comparison is spot on in my eyes.

The possibility of pairing him with Duursma or Watson up forward makes me positively swoon.

Caddy's one-on-one work isn't half what Curnow's was. He kicks plenty of goals, but mostly from good leads and smart forward play. He's a Gunston, not a Curnow. Duursma is a mile ahead at this point.

 

[Billyc]

Would anyone have taken picket in the top three of his draft (went pick 12)? How about Josh Rachelle (went pick 6)?

For anyone who wants to take Watson at 3, why is it do you think he is the third best player in this draft?

No, but I would take Toby Greene, Cyril, Breust or Eddie Betts from a pick 3. So it all depends on just how good he is. Though historically clubs do not use top 3 picks on small forwards, let alone one as small at Watson. So it would require the club do something clubs have never done before to use pick 3 on him.

 

[naysayer]

Caddy's one-on-one work isn't half what Curnow's was. He kicks plenty of goals, but mostly from good leads and smart forward play. He's a Gunston, not a Curnow. Duursma is a mile ahead at this point.

Gunston is a great player, but I don't remember him taking many pack marks from 3 deep. Caddy's marking looks bloody good here:



It's only his wastefulness in front of goals that has me concerned. But he strikes me as the sort of player who can get off the chain with 6-7 goals, and would be well worth trading up to get if he slipped to pick 7-10.

Would anyone have taken picket in the top three of his draft (went pick 12)? How about Josh Rachelle (went pick 6)?

For anyone who wants to take Watson at 3, why is it do you think he is the third best player in this draft?

His unbelievable skill and his consistency as a forward. Taking him at pick 2-3 would be the same as Melbourne taking Jackson. You don't normally take rucks or small forwards with those picks, but some players are not normal.

 

[Brishawk]

No, but I would take Toby Greene, Cyril, Breust or Eddie Betts from a pick 3. So it all depends on just how good he is. Though historically clubs do not use top 3 picks on small forwards, let alone one as small at Watson. So it would require the club do something clubs have never done before to use pick 3 on him.

Lets take a look with the full benefit of hindsight for those players then...I'll put forward some names that I'd argue are at around the same mark for maybe slightly lower or higher...the general level of competition.

Greene was drafted in 2011 which includes:
Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko, Chad Wingard, Tom Mitchell, Elliot Yeo, and Rory Laird who have all had similar or better careers.

Breust was take in 2009 2008:
Dustin Martin, Nathan Fyfe, Max Gawn, Jack Gunston (lol had to include him). Nic naitanui, steele sidebottom, luke shuey, dayne beams, dan hannebery, rory sloane. Breust wins this.

Edit: had him against 2009 national draft as he was taken in the 2009 rookie draft, which was actually held in 2008

Betts is the funniest...as he was taken in the 2004 draft:
Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Deledio, Griffen, Travis Cloke, Josh Gibson - pretty stacked draft for star players. 4 hall of fame hawthorn players!

Rioli was taken in 2007:
Cotchin, Dangerfield, Harry Taylor, Alex Rance, Jack Steven, Taylor walker.

So even with the benefit of hindsight, it's still hard to fit small forwards into the top 3 of their draft years. Could make an argument for any of them of course but Rioli is the only one I'd say for sure but then again would cats and tigers fans argue for Taylor and Rance? Greene and Breust right on the cusp if they don't make it. It's close but not guaranteed. And this is with cherry picking the best small forwards you could think of (or anyone as they are right up there with the best). And that is ignoring both Greene and Rioli were seen as midfield prospects at draft time (Rioli played forward and midfield).

 

[Brishawk]

His unbelievable skill and his consistency as a forward. Taking him at pick 2-3 would be the same as Melbourne taking Jackson. You don't normally take rucks or small forwards with those picks, but some players are not normal.

Watson has kicked 6 goals in 5 games at Coates level. Is that the consistency you mean? Across the champs and Coates league (he missed a lot due to school football) he has been named in the best 3 times (from 9 games). Watson did have a good champs in front of goals but didn't get the ball a whole heap.

Contrast with Dursma who has been named in the best 10 times in 14 games at that level kicking 29 goals in 10 games at Coates level plus another 7 goals in 4 games (playing also in the midfield) at the champs. And one of the times he missed the best at Coates level was his most recent game where he took 10 marks and kicked 4 goals in a low scoring match. I think he might have been robbed.

PS Heaps have rucks have gone early in the draft. Natinui (2), Kreuzer (1), and Leuenberger (4) were taken in consecutive years. It is less common since then though but historically clubs have picked rucks in the top ten even where they would never consider a small forward. McEvoy and Hale both went top 10 in their draft years.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Gee, though I'm happy with Watson or mckercher , the more I watch Duursma the more I think he might be the one.
Earlier in the season my pick was Caddy, still think there's a lot to work with, has good frwd craft and does find space to be end of transition and possession chains which means he works hard off the ball. Good luck to our list management team. The top 7-8 players are all high end quality.

 

[Howe Amazing]

When our biggest concern is forward line, it would be hard to not consider Caddy very seriously and depending on other trade targets.

 

[Brucie Buffer]

Lets take a look with the full benefit of hindsight for those players then...I'll put forward some names that I'd argue are at around the same mark for maybe slightly lower or higher...the general level of competition.

Greene was drafted in 2011 which includes:
Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko, Chad Wingard, Tom Mitchell, Elliot Yeo, and Rory Laird who have all had similar or better careers.

Breust was take in 2009:
Dustin Martin, Nathan Fyfe, Max Gawn, Jack Gunston (lol had to include him).

Betts is the funniest...as he was taken in the 2004 draft:
Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Deledio, Griffen, Travis Cloke, Josh Gibson - pretty stacked draft for star players. 4 hall of fame hawthorn players!

Rioli was taken in 2007:
Cotchin, Dangerfield, Harry Taylor, Alex Rance, Jack Steven, Taylor walker.

So even with the benefit of hindsight, it's still hard to fit small forwards into the top 3 of their draft years. Could make an argument for any of them of course but Rioli is the only one I'd say for sure but then again would cats and tigers fans argue for Taylor and Rance? Greene and Breust right on the cusp if they don't make it. It's close but not guaranteed. And this is with cherry picking the best small forwards you could think of (or anyone as they are right up there with the best). And that is ignoring both Greene and Rioli were seen as midfield prospects at draft time (Rioli played forward and midfield).

That’s a pretty compelling case. You’ve flipped my first choice. Which of course means nothing.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Watson has kicked 6 goals in 5 games at Coates level. Is that the consistency you mean? Across the champs and Coates league (he missed a lot due to school football) he has been named in the best 3 times (from 9 games). Watson did have a good champs in front of goals but didn't get the ball a whole heap.

Contrast with Dursma who has been named in the best 10 times in 14 games at that level kicking 29 goals in 10 games at Coates level plus another 7 goals in 4 games (playing also in the midfield) at the champs. And one of the times he missed the best at Coates level was his most recent game where he took 10 marks and kicked 4 goals in a low scoring match. I think he might have been robbed.

PS Heaps have rucks have gone early in the draft. Natinui (2), Kreuzer (1), and Leuenberger (4) were taken in consecutive years. It is less common since then though but historically clubs have picked rucks in the top ten even where they would never consider a small forward. McEvoy and Hale both went top 10 in their draft years.

Duursma just makes the most sense of all available options. After that if we could somehow get another first (GCS's) then I'd be wrapped with any of Watson, Caddy or McKercher.

 

[naysayer]

Watson has kicked 6 goals in 5 games at Coates level. Is that the consistency you mean? Across the champs and Coates league (he missed a lot due to school football) he has been named in the best 3 times (from 9 games). Watson did have a good champs in front of goals but didn't get the ball a whole heap.

Contrast with Dursma who has been named in the best 10 times in 14 games at that level kicking 29 goals in 10 games at Coates level plus another 7 goals in 4 games (playing also in the midfield) at the champs. And one of the times he missed the best at Coates level was his most recent game where he took 10 marks and kicked 4 goals in a low scoring match. I think he might have been robbed.

PS Heaps have rucks have gone early in the draft. Natinui (2), Kreuzer (1), and Leuenberger (4) were taken in consecutive years. It is less common since then though but historically clubs have picked rucks in the top ten even where they would never consider a small forward. McEvoy and Hale both went top 10 in their draft years.

Watson has played on the wing at Coates level, so no, it's not the consistency I mean. I'm just talking about watching him generally. Very consistent 4-quarter player, and has been for the past three years. Brings energy to both sides of the game.

Lets take a look with the full benefit of hindsight for those players then...I'll put forward some names that I'd argue are at around the same mark for maybe slightly lower or higher...the general level of competition.

Greene was drafted in 2011 which includes:
Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko, Chad Wingard, Tom Mitchell, Elliot Yeo, and Rory Laird who have all had similar or better careers.

Breust was take in 2009:
Dustin Martin, Nathan Fyfe, Max Gawn, Jack Gunston (lol had to include him).

Betts is the funniest...as he was taken in the 2004 draft:
Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Deledio, Griffen, Travis Cloke, Josh Gibson - pretty stacked draft for star players. 4 hall of fame hawthorn players!

Rioli was taken in 2007:
Cotchin, Dangerfield, Harry Taylor, Alex Rance, Jack Steven, Taylor walker.

So even with the benefit of hindsight, it's still hard to fit small forwards into the top 3 of their draft years. Could make an argument for any of them of course but Rioli is the only one I'd say for sure but then again would cats and tigers fans argue for Taylor and Rance? Greene and Breust right on the cusp if they don't make it. It's close but not guaranteed. And this is with cherry picking the best small forwards you could think of (or anyone as they are right up there with the best). And that is ignoring both Greene and Rioli were seen as midfield prospects at draft time (Rioli played forward and midfield).

So in hindsight:

Toby Greene probably the best choice out of the 2011 draft. Neale a close second.
Breust easily a top 5 pick in 2009.
Rioli easily a top 5 choice in 2007.
Betts easily a top 5 choice in 2004.

I don't know if this is a good argument to ignore Nick Watson, when his junior career has far exceeded any of the above-mentioned.

 

[Platten44]

Lets take a look with the full benefit of hindsight for those players then...I'll put forward some names that I'd argue are at around the same mark for maybe slightly lower or higher...the general level of competition.

Greene was drafted in 2011 which includes:
Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko, Chad Wingard, Tom Mitchell, Elliot Yeo, and Rory Laird who have all had similar or better careers.

Breust was take in 2009:
Dustin Martin, Nathan Fyfe, Max Gawn, Jack Gunston (lol had to include him).

Betts is the funniest...as he was taken in the 2004 draft:
Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Deledio, Griffen, Travis Cloke, Josh Gibson - pretty stacked draft for star players. 4 hall of fame hawthorn players!

Rioli was taken in 2007:
Cotchin, Dangerfield, Harry Taylor, Alex Rance, Jack Steven, Taylor walker.

So even with the benefit of hindsight, it's still hard to fit small forwards into the top 3 of their draft years. Could make an argument for any of them of course but Rioli is the only one I'd say for sure but then again would cats and tigers fans argue for Taylor and Rance? Greene and Breust right on the cusp if they don't make it. It's close but not guaranteed. And this is with cherry picking the best small forwards you could think of (or anyone as they are right up there with the best). And that is ignoring both Greene and Rioli were seen as midfield prospects at draft time (Rioli played forward and midfield).

2008 draft for Punky.Drafted December 2008.

 

[TDS7]

Gunston is a great player, but I don't remember him taking many pack marks from 3 deep. Caddy's marking looks bloody good here:



It's only his wastefulness in front of goals that has me concerned. But he strikes me as the sort of player who can get off the chain with 6-7 goals, and would be well worth trading up to get if he slipped to pick 7-10.


His unbelievable skill and his consistency as a forward. Taking him at pick 2-3 would be the same as Melbourne taking Jackson. You don't normally take rucks or small forwards with those picks, but some players are not normal.

This game is a great example of why Caddy should play as a third tall in the AFL, not as a key forward. His first two goals came from exceptional forwardcraft, even his other two goals were smart tick leads into space. His effort at 3:40 shows why I don't think he'll be a key forward in the AFL though, one-on-one you need to seal away the defender and protect the drop zone. Caddy knows this, but he doesn't have the size to win the positioning battle and has to go for a leap. There's no world Curnow lets his opponent have that space, and thats the difference here. He follows it up well, but in the AFL a fullback is going to kill you if you let him take and hold first position. His contested marking is better than Gunners was early on, but I still can't see him playing one-out deep. Again, he's a great player, but he's better as a third tall and Duursma is a better general forward.

 

[naysayer]

This game is a great example of why Caddy should play as a third tall in the AFL, not as a key forward. His first two goals came from exceptional forwardcraft, even his other two goals were smart tick leads into space. His effort at 3:40 shows why I don't think he'll be a key forward in the AFL though, one-on-one you need to seal away the defender and protect the drop zone. Caddy knows this, but he doesn't have the size to win the positioning battle and has to go for a leap. There's no world Curnow lets his opponent have that space, and thats the difference here. He follows it up well, but in the AFL a fullback is going to kill you if you let him take and hold first position. His contested marking is better than Gunners was early on, but I still can't see him playing one-out deep. Again, he's a great player, but he's better as a third tall and Duursma is a better general forward.

Really interesting to hear your perspective, as I think you've watched more of his games. I really liked Caddy's presence and aggression in the games I've watched, especially the VFL game where he looked at home physically.

 

[ahhhhhh]

Lets take a look with the full benefit of hindsight for those players then...I'll put forward some names that I'd argue are at around the same mark for maybe slightly lower or higher...the general level of competition.

Greene was drafted in 2011 which includes:
Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko, Chad Wingard, Tom Mitchell, Elliot Yeo, and Rory Laird who have all had similar or better careers.

Breust was take in 2009:
Dustin Martin, Nathan Fyfe, Max Gawn, Jack Gunston (lol had to include him).

Betts is the funniest...as he was taken in the 2004 draft:
Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Deledio, Griffen, Travis Cloke, Josh Gibson - pretty stacked draft for star players. 4 hall of fame hawthorn players!

Rioli was taken in 2007:
Cotchin, Dangerfield, Harry Taylor, Alex Rance, Jack Steven, Taylor walker.

So even with the benefit of hindsight, it's still hard to fit small forwards into the top 3 of their draft years. Could make an argument for any of them of course but Rioli is the only one I'd say for sure but then again would cats and tigers fans argue for Taylor and Rance? Greene and Breust right on the cusp if they don't make it. It's close but not guaranteed. And this is with cherry picking the best small forwards you could think of (or anyone as they are right up there with the best). And that is ignoring both Greene and Rioli were seen as midfield prospects at draft time (Rioli played forward and midfield).

Toby Greene is clearly the best of the lot you named in his draft.

 

[Brishawk]

Watson has played on the wing at Coates level, so no, it's not the consistency I mean. I'm just talking about watching him generally. Very consistent 4-quarter player, and has been for the past three years. Brings energy to both sides of the game.

So in hindsight:

Toby Greene probably the best choice out of the 2011 draft. Neale a close second.
Breust easily a top 5 pick in 2009.
Rioli easily a top 5 choice in 2007.
Betts easily a top 5 choice in 2004.

I don't know if this is a good argument to ignore Nick Watson, when his junior career has far exceeded any of the above-mentioned.

In five games at coates level he has been named in the best one time. He hasn’t played exclusively on the wing either. Playing up the field is going to hurt his forward production but you cant claim consistency as a forward if it is based on four games of the champs only. I discount school football as i dont rate it high enough. No one is drafting watson top ten as a wingman.

 

[Billyc]

Lets take a look with the full benefit of hindsight for those players then...I'll put forward some names that I'd argue are at around the same mark for maybe slightly lower or higher...the general level of competition.

Greene was drafted in 2011 which includes:
Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko, Chad Wingard, Tom Mitchell, Elliot Yeo, and Rory Laird who have all had similar or better careers.

Breust was take in 2009:
Dustin Martin, Nathan Fyfe, Max Gawn, Jack Gunston (lol had to include him).

Betts is the funniest...as he was taken in the 2004 draft:
Buddy, Roughy, Lewis, Deledio, Griffen, Travis Cloke, Josh Gibson - pretty stacked draft for star players. 4 hall of fame hawthorn players!

Rioli was taken in 2007:
Cotchin, Dangerfield, Harry Taylor, Alex Rance, Jack Steven, Taylor walker.

So even with the benefit of hindsight, it's still hard to fit small forwards into the top 3 of their draft years. Could make an argument for any of them of course but Rioli is the only one I'd say for sure but then again would cats and tigers fans argue for Taylor and Rance? Greene and Breust right on the cusp if they don't make it. It's close but not guaranteed. And this is with cherry picking the best small forwards you could think of (or anyone as they are right up there with the best). And that is ignoring both Greene and Rioli were seen as midfield prospects at draft time (Rioli played forward and midfield).

All very fair and as I said, clubs don’t tend to take small forwards that early, or someone Watson’s height.

But if they are good enough, like the few I mentioned, they can be worth it. If Watson proves to be that good, he’d be worth it.

I do think the club is more likely to pick Duursma and I’ve thought all year Watson might slide for the reasons discussed. Doesn’t mean he should, just that I think he might

I’d be happy either way with a player who can hit the scoreboard as that’s what we need. I have a slight personal leaning toward Watson, though more because I think he will be fun to watch and I miss that

 

[noobermensch]

I had a few comments about the poor disposal efficiency on the Duursma video from the same game as this. There was an extremely strong wind blowing across the ground which made it difficult for all players to find targets and judge marking attempts. The Wizard navigated the wind better than most on the day playing mostly on a wing. He showed that he can provide some value further up the ground, utilizing his blistering pace and creative field kicking.

 

[kenneje]

I had a few comments about the poor disposal efficiency on the Duursma video from the same game as this. There was an extremely strong wind blowing across the ground which made it difficult for all players to find targets and judge marking attempts. The Wizard navigated the wind better than most on the day playing mostly on a wing. He showed that he can provide some value further up the ground, utilizing his blistering pace and creative field kicking.

Geez he looks good.

Took a quarter to work out the wind and state of the game, but looked great once he had.
He's so clean with ground balls and love the little taps and ankle breakers.

Someone I trust said earlier in the year that if you can get the ball to him 25 times at AFL level, you win.

Only thing is I'd like to see him kick on his left a little more than the outside of the right boot.

 

[TheFourPillars]

So as can be seen Watson is more than just a forward pocket.

 

[noobermensch]

So as can be seen Watson is more than just a forward pocket.

Positions/roles at this level are much less dynamic than at AFL level. If Watto is playing forward pocket then he tends to stay deep forward. If he's playing on a wing then he's on a wing. At AFL level, I think he would be encouraged and coached to play something like we see from Jeremy Cameron or Shai Bolton, where they start further up the ground but its much more dynamic, and they use that to create confusion and lose their man as they push forward to become dangerous in the 50.

 

[kirbatron]

I had a few comments about the poor disposal efficiency on the Duursma video from the same game as this. There was an extremely strong wind blowing across the ground which made it difficult for all players to find targets and judge marking attempts. The Wizard navigated the wind better than most on the day playing mostly on a wing. He showed that he can provide some value further up the ground, utilizing his blistering pace and creative field kicking.

shorter Bazlenka when in the midfield

 

[TheFourPillars]

shorter Bazlenka when in the midfield

He is fricken Jet. So clean and accelerates with a sonic boom hahaha

 

[kirbatron]

He is fricken Jet. So clean and accelerates with a sonic boom hahaha

mate im with u on the wiz 100%

 

[TassieGrown]

McKercher out of finals series with a broken foot