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Analysis 2023 All Australian Team Awards Night
- Thread starter Cringle
- Start date
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00Stinger
100 - 7
71 goals for Larkey in a 3 win team is phenomenal
Curnow, Walker & Larkey should all be in imo
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Curnow, Walker & Larkey should all be in imo
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- Mar 2, 2015
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- Hawthorn
The All Australian selection committee met during the week.
Gill, Dillon, Laura Kane, Buckley, Cornes, Lingy, Jakovich, Eddie Betts... (plus KB, Jude Bolton, Chris Johnson, etc)
There were cameras in their meeting and some brief clips were shown on a 30 second Fox Footy promo
Here's some of the quotes about a few of the various candidates... Can we guess who they were discussing?
Bear in mind this isn't the final 22. (That will come from another selection meeting this Monday)
They were probably narrowing it down from 60-70 players for their squad of 44.
These are all edited. They aren't answering each other...
Jako: He's in a very, very young forward line... so he's shouldered a lot of responsibility
-------
Cornes: He just gets exposed. I know he doesn't play on anyone and that's not what he's supposed to do, but I just can't cop it.
-------
Buckley: you're a harsh judge. I reckon he's been good for the whole year.
-------
Cornes: no one has commanded the position. [English for ruck, maybe?]
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Ling: If we want a ruck forward on the bench, give me him. [Jackson?]
-------
Jako: He's been a deer in the headlights a few times
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Pavlich: good solid year, probably a lean past month or so, but he stacks up
-------
Buckley: He's in on the basis of being a great player who we sometimes think needs to be up here [raises hand above his head] and he's been here [drops hand to eye level]... so we can have that argument later on.
(Possibly talking about Dusty for the squad, maybe in answer to other selectors saying he wouldn't get in the their 22)
Gill, Dillon, Laura Kane, Buckley, Cornes, Lingy, Jakovich, Eddie Betts... (plus KB, Jude Bolton, Chris Johnson, etc)
There were cameras in their meeting and some brief clips were shown on a 30 second Fox Footy promo
Here's some of the quotes about a few of the various candidates... Can we guess who they were discussing?
Bear in mind this isn't the final 22. (That will come from another selection meeting this Monday)
They were probably narrowing it down from 60-70 players for their squad of 44.
These are all edited. They aren't answering each other...
Jako: He's in a very, very young forward line... so he's shouldered a lot of responsibility
-------
Cornes: He just gets exposed. I know he doesn't play on anyone and that's not what he's supposed to do, but I just can't cop it.
-------
Buckley: you're a harsh judge. I reckon he's been good for the whole year.
-------
Cornes: no one has commanded the position. [English for ruck, maybe?]
-------
Ling: If we want a ruck forward on the bench, give me him. [Jackson?]
-------
Jako: He's been a deer in the headlights a few times
-------
Pavlich: good solid year, probably a lean past month or so, but he stacks up
-------
Buckley: He's in on the basis of being a great player who we sometimes think needs to be up here [raises hand above his head] and he's been here [drops hand to eye level]... so we can have that argument later on.
(Possibly talking about Dusty for the squad, maybe in answer to other selectors saying he wouldn't get in the their 22)
- Mar 25, 2019
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My guesses
Jako: He's in a very, very young forward line... so he's shouldered a lot of responsibility
Taylor Walker
Cornes: He just gets exposed. I know he doesn't play on anyone and that's not what he's supposed to do, but I just can't cop it.
Darcy Moore/Nick Daicos
Buckley: you're a harsh judge. I reckon he's been good for the whole year.
^^^
Cornes: no one has commanded the position.
Ruck/Small Fwd
Ling: If we want a ruck forward on the bench, give me him.
Rowan Marshall
Jako: He's been a deer in the headlights a few times
Nick Daicos
Pavlich: good solid year, probably a lean past month or so, but he stacks up
Tim Taranto
Buckley: He's in on the basis of being a great player who we sometimes think needs to be up here [raises hand above his head] and he's been here [drops hand to eye level]... so we can have that argument later on.
Lachie Neale
- Apr 29, 2016
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I'm not sure if English can make the team. He was completely smashed and embarrassed by Lycett earlier in the year and now getting beaten by a first gamer from Geelong. It's gotta be Marshall.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Sicily Weitering Newman
Sinclair Moore N.Daicos
J.Daicos Libba Gulden
Greene Tex Petracca
Larkey Curnow C.Cameron
Marshall Bontempelli Butters
English Rozee Dawson Neale
For me barring some outstanding/terrible performances tomorrow with a few lineball calls
Sinclair Moore N.Daicos
J.Daicos Libba Gulden
Greene Tex Petracca
Larkey Curnow C.Cameron
Marshall Bontempelli Butters
English Rozee Dawson Neale
For me barring some outstanding/terrible performances tomorrow with a few lineball calls
scoman
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 19, 2013
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Harris Andrews deserves a bit more love in this thread. He is having such a good season, opposition have to plan to try to kick around him. 8th in the league for intercepts and 1st in the league for spoils. He is a big reason why we've finished top 2.
For us, Andrews, Daniher, Cameron and Neale would the the main shots at AA selection.
For us, Andrews, Daniher, Cameron and Neale would the the main shots at AA selection.
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
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I don’t think it’s guaranteed. Will end 50th in total score involvements. (76th average). 31st for contested marks. 194th for goal assists with just 7. Just don’t know why they’d pick 3 x key forwards in the team given Curnow and Walker are in. He averages just 9 touches a game and 1 inside-50.
Jack Riewoldt won the Coleman in 2012 and missed the team.
Stats of Jack 2012 v Larkey 2023:
Disposals: 13.2 v 9.4
Marks: 5.2 v 4.2
Goals: 3.0 v 3.1
Tackles: 2.6 v 0.7
I50: 1.8 v 1.1
GA: 0.9 v 0.3
Total goals and GA: 85 v 79 (season was 1 less game for Jack)
Contested pos: 7.0 v 4.2
CM: 1.8 v 1.1
Mi50: 3.8 v 2.8
So Jack had a clearly superior season to Larkey and missed the team. For this reason I wouldn’t think Larkey is a lock given there are 2 x KPF clearly ahead of him.
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- Mar 25, 2019
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Larkey has 71 goals and 7 goal assists. It will be a close call between him and Langford in that 3rd tall position imo. Rest of the Fwd line picks itself
Larkey isn't competing for a spot in the 2012 team
Not picking Jack in 2012 was a mistake.
Similarly, I think Larkey deserves to be selected (with Walker and Curnow).
70+ goals in a 3 win team these days is ridiculous.
He's a gun, definitely in the squad, just doesn't quite make the team for mine.
- Jun 4, 2016
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Sicily with another 25 disposal, 12 mark game today.
Although his defensive ability may have dropped slightly from last year when he was toweling up the best key forwards in the league week in, week out his offensive output in 2023 has been nothing short of amazing.
The Hawks were an absolute rabble when he was suspended just to emphasise how much we rely on him.
Surely, surely he gets picked this year?
Although his defensive ability may have dropped slightly from last year when he was toweling up the best key forwards in the league week in, week out his offensive output in 2023 has been nothing short of amazing.
The Hawks were an absolute rabble when he was suspended just to emphasise how much we rely on him.
Surely, surely he gets picked this year?
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
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Jack had no KPF ahead of him in 2012 and missed out. Larkey’s got 2 x KPF clearly ahead of him in 2023 so not sure if they’ll choose 3 x KPF?
Larkey is similar to Ben Brown, who was 3rd, 2nd and 2nd in the Coleman and never made AA. They are very similar in they barely contribute at all outside their own shots for goal which obviously counted against BB.
Having said all that, if Larkey is selected he’d be a worthy AA.
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First line is disputable. I would argue Riewoldt wasn't even the best KPF to miss the side - Pavlich was. Hawkins, Pav and Riewoldt were the best tall forwards that year, in order. They all should have made the side, however they butchered it by putting Cox in a pocket instead of on the bench if he was to make the team at all, and they selected Buddy who played 16 H&A games and his goal tally was boosted by an outlier 13 against North Melbourne. Granted that 13 goals shouldn't be discounted, but when you miss 6 games, you need to blow your competitors for the team out of the water, and he didn't.
Comparing Larkey's 2023 to Brown's 2019 is interesting. 71 goals for Larkey (23 games) vs 64 for Brown (22 games). Interestingly Brown missed that year because he didn't get enough ball and do enough up the ground compared to his peers, but his numbers actually still beat Larkey's in 2023 (disposals, marks, inside 50's). Brown received 19 more free kicks and without the numbers in front of me, presume he kicked more goals from frees than Larkey (not always a bad thing, often frees are won because the defender unsuccessfully defends the 1-on-1).
Larkey has 3 bags of 6+, 8 hauls of 4+, 12 hauls of 3+ and only one goalless game. Brown had 2 bags of 6+, 7 bags of 4+, 11 hauls of 3+ and 3 goalless games. Larkey with slightly more bigger games, and fewer goalless games.
The decision to pick Jack Darling ahead of Ben Brown in 2019 was a poor one, and was a selection made to favour a finals team. The equivalent selection in 2023 to overlook Larkey would probably be Daniher, but the gap in goals between Larkey and Daniher is significantly more than Brown's gap with Hawkins and Darling.
I think they'll pick Larkey. He deserves it.
rye
⠀
- Apr 24, 2022
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will be tough splitting marshall and english for the first ruck position.
be interesting to see if they pick both with one on the bench
be interesting to see if they pick both with one on the bench
- Mar 2, 2015
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Bullshit.
Riewoldt kicked 65 goals in 2012 for a decent mid-table team with 10 wins, 11 losses, 1 draw (111.6%)
Larkey kicked 71 goals for a struggling cellar dweller with just 3 wins, 20 losses (71.5%)
I think Larkey is a certainty to make this year's team as forward pocket. Flown under the radar playing for North, but his output cannot be denied. Everyone has been looking around for forwards to fit in a pocket. It's been a black hole since the Geelong forwards waned ... Langford? Breust? Elliott? Martin, ffs... Well, Larkey is the man with 71 goals for the team in 17th position.
You mention Jack's 2012 season, but Jeremy Cameron (2013 Giants) is a better comparison with Nick Larkey. Jez kicked 62 goals for the 2013 wooden spooners and was named All Australian full forward with Coleman winner, Jarryd Roughead alongside in the forward pocket and Travis Cloke at CHF.
Jack was good, but not great in 2012. Despite kicking 65 goals and winning the Coleman, he didn't have the most amazing season .
He played in every game, but polled just 6 Brownlow votes (in 3 games), only 21 coaches votes (in 4 games) and finished 9th in his club's best & fairest award.
Jack Dyer Medal
1. Trent Cotchin...... 296 All Australian
2. Brett Deledio...... 263 All Australian
3. Ivan Maric.......... 248 AA squad
4. Shane Tuck........ 207
5. Shaun Grigg....... 198
6. Alex Rance......... 192
7. Steven Morris..... 191
8. Shane Edwards... 188
9. Jack Riewoldt... 173 AA squad
10. Dustin Martin.... 170
10. Bachar Houli..... 170
I can remember the heated 2012 AA discussions on here and it wasn't even controversial that Jack missed out.
Most people thought it was Pavlich, not Jack, who was the most egregious snub among the forwards.
People here on Big Footy weren't calling him "Junktime Jack" for nothing. He seemed to make a specialty of kicking last quarter goals when the Tigers had already built a match-winning lead. Case in point: Richmond's 10 goal win vs Hawthorn in Round 9 when Jack kicked 6 goals. Statisically, it was one of his biggest days out that season. Except he kicked 5 of his 6 goals in the last quarter after the Tigers had already put the Hawks away and led by 6 goals.
Buddy and Hawkins were the 2 best key forwards of 2012 which is why they were All Australian. Simple.
There was a bit of a stink about the Eagles dominant ruck duo both being selected (Naitanui as 1st ruck and Dean Cox in the forward pocket). I personally didn't have a problem with that. They both rucked 50/50 and kicked everyone's arses. They both also spent some time resting up forward, influencing games from there as well, taking big contested marks and kicking goals. (NicNat 24, Cox 28)
2012 coaches votes - key forwards
...........................(GP)
66... Tom Hawkins (11).... All Australian
57... Matthew Pavlich (8).. AA Squad
48... Lance Franklin (9).... All Australian
45... Taylor Walker (11).... AA squad
40... Nick Riewoldt (5)...... AA squad
38... Drew Petrie (5)........ AA squad
36... Jack Darling (8)
24... Kurt Tippett (7)
24... Travis Cloke (5)
23... Jonathan Brown (5)
21... Jack Riewoldt (4).... AA squad
.......Rucks
47... Aaron Sandlilands ---- played just 12 H&A games that year. He missed too many to be considered.
43... Nick Naitanui............ All Australian
35... Dean Cox................. All Australian
Buddy only played 16 games, but he was clearly the most dominant forward of 2012. Head and shoulders above his peers in just about every statistical category. I always thought that was peak Buddy. Not as many goals as 2008, but so influential in every game he played. He would've won the Coleman by a street if he didn't miss 6 games with an injuncted hamstrike injury. The Hawks hit a purple patch of form with some huge victories, but he wasn't there to cash in.
Jack was a bit of a lucky "Bradbury" Coleman medalist in 2012.
He was a classic example of why the Coleman medalist does not automatically get a spot in the AA team
Last edited:
- May 8, 2022
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Tex - 22 games, 76 goals (18 free kicks)
Curnow - 22 games, 75 goals (38 free kicks)
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
- 7,209
- 27,452
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
- 7,209
- 27,452
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Larkey kicked 15-goals in the last 2 matches. One a farewell parade for 2 retiring Tigers (Larkey played on a 12-game player) and another a dead rubber against a GC team that clearly didn’t give 2 sh*tes about being there and were already on holidays. So let’s not talk too much about ‘junk time’.
And there’s a pretty obvious difference… Jack kicked more goals than anyone else for the season. Larkey has two players ahead of him.
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Can easily fit Curnow Tex and Larkey in the same side. Greene Cameron and
1 ruck only please. No bench spot.
Tex can do the F50 ruck work.
I'd drop Weitering for Sam Taylor.
And id just find another player to come in for one of the rucks. Can't think of who while I'm sitting on the toilet
1 ruck only please. No bench spot.
Tex can do the F50 ruck work.
This is a pretty good team
I'd drop Weitering for Sam Taylor.
And id just find another player to come in for one of the rucks. Can't think of who while I'm sitting on the toilet
