List Mgmt. 2023 Draft Thread - Part I

[g_TRAIN]

I think Heath improved quite a lot in the second half of this year.

As mentioned his running has a long way to go still in terms of endurance.

His marking and forward play has always been pretty good and there is something there that can be developed to an AFL level.

His ruck work has always been pretty average so far but his follow-up, tackling and aggression are good.

 

[George]

Fantastic seeing the boys carnivorous

View attachment 1860714

Dude's family runs a steakhouse, not a huge surprise

OWNED!!!

 

[Dard Ball Get]

OWNED!!!

Missed the part where I said it was surprising, off to work on my comprehension skillz

 

[George]

Missed the part where I said it was surprising, off to work on my comprehension skillz

View attachment 1860916

He's French remember

 

[bergholt]

I don’t know how to judge whether Heath will make it. At the moment he looks just like most other young rucks. Not enough tank to be able to run all day at afl level as a follower, not enough body strength to compete with the stand and deliver brutes, not a good enough mark to be dangerous forward. He might develop as his attitude seems good but so many big guys don’t go on from here. Fingers crossed but I won’t be counting on him.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

It’s hard to improve when you rarely actually play your natural position. For some strange reason we keep giving Campbell the #1 ruck duties and playing Heath as a forward. I’ll never understand it.

Hopefully that’s a Rd 1 switch.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I don’t know how to judge whether Heath will make it. At the moment he looks just like most other young rucks. Not enough tank to be able to run all day at afl level as a follower, not enough body strength to compete with the stand and deliver brutes, not a good enough mark to be dangerous forward. He might develop as his attitude seems good but so many big guys don’t go on from here. Fingers crossed but I won’t be counting on him.

We have to remember how much longer ruckman take to find their feet. Oscar McInerny was 23 when drafted and 24yo when he debuted. Rowan Marshall was 22 and 23yo when he debuted and both took another couple of years to fully establish themselves.

Max Heath has only just turned 21yo so whilst Marshall is fit and healthy I am happy for the club to be patient with Max. It would be nice to see him debut next year, but I am confident he will make a very good ruckman, it just takes time.

 

[L_W_P]

Hoping Heath gets a couple of games next year.

Rucks seem to fly around every off season so, even if he feels he's not going to get a gig with us, a few good games will up his value.

Going to be very interesting to see how we line up our best 28-30 guys.

I don't think a best 23 really works, you need a core underneath to rotate in across the year.

Rekon the likes Ross, Clark & Membrey will end up as depth by season's end.

 

[SaintSteele9]

Hoping Heath gets a couple of games next year.

Rucks seem to fly around every off season so, even if he feels he's not going to get a gig with us, a few good games will up his value.

Going to be very interesting to see how we line up our best 28-30 guys.

I don't think a best 23 really works, you need a core underneath to rotate in across the year.

Rekon the likes Ross, Clark & Membrey will end up as depth by season's end.

While I tend to agree with that last point, if it ends up the case it will consign our 2017 draft to being a terrible misfire.

 

[L_W_P]

While I tend to agree with that last point, if it ends up the case it will consign our 2017 draft to being a terrible misfire.

6 years on, I'm ok with letting it go.

We've held onto the past for way too long, hoping guys would come good.

Time to seriously look at the future and raise the bar on the skill level and training standards around the club.

 

[_Maximus_12]

6 years on, I'm ok with letting it go.

We've held onto the past for way too long, hoping guys would come good.

Time to seriously look at the future and raise the bar on the skill level and training standards around the club.

I’ve moved on but our last 3 draft hauls have proven exactly what a wast the prior decade was

 

[Dard Ball Get]

While I tend to agree with that last point, if it ends up the case it will consign our 2017 draft to being a terrible misfire.

Don’t cling to a mistake just because you have spent a long time making it.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

I’ve moved on but our last 3 draft hauls have proven exactly what a wast the prior decade was

If it wasn't for Seb and Jimmy we'd have bid goodbye to everything pre 2018 basically...

Insane how quick lists get turned over.

And a reminder that in 3 years we'll have moved on another 15 or so players from our current list... hard to pick more than 6-7 of who it would be but undoubtedly a few surprises and a few later picks that don't come off.... List management is relentless.

 

[CursingFijian]

If it wasn't for Seb and Jimmy we'd have bid goodbye to everything pre 2018 basically...

Insane how quick lists get turned over.

And a reminder that in 3 years we'll have moved on another 15 or so players from our current list... hard to pick more than 6-7 of who it would be but undoubtedly a few surprises and a few later picks that don't come off.... List management is relentless.

Hopefully we can become a successful club that sets trends in terms of match tactics and gameplay.

But when you’re just trying to emulate other teams your list building can become quickly off kilter when the best teams change the way they play.

It’s one of Ross Lyon’s best qualities is that he is a cutting edge thinker of the game. He knows what he wants and has a clear vision on how to compete in the modern era.

Ross Lyon’s clarity of vision gives Toce some really clear lanes to operate in.

Courage, pace, two way running, versatility and quality disposal are characteristics that Ross clearly wants.

 

[CursingFijian]

A couple more traits that I think Ross is big on…self confidence and competitive spirit.

It’s so much easier to hone a player like Collard who arrives with an established innate belief in his ability.

And players who thirst for the contest like Mitchito will always be amongst the Ross Lyon favourites. He will select you to play despite average to good skills if you’re wired for ferocious and repetitive engagement. Anybody who doesn’t have this quality better be elite in a particular skill or they will quickly be put on the fringe.

 

[austinnn]

Hopefully we can become a successful club that sets trends in terms of match tactics and gameplay.

But when you’re just trying to emulate other teams your list building can become quickly off kilter when the best teams change the way they play.

It’s one of Ross Lyon’s best qualities is that he is a cutting edge thinker of the game. He knows what he wants and has a clear vision on how to compete in the modern era.

Ross Lyon’s clarity of vision gives Toce some really clear lanes to operate in.

Courage, pace, two way running, versatility and quality disposal are characteristics that Ross clearly wants.

The qualities you list as Lyon prerequisites are surely desirable fir all coaches and players who tick all those boxes are rare.

If those are things his players must have, what is he prepared to sacrifice, or to put it another way:
Are there positives other coaches look for that you think Lyon cares less about?

 

[NextYearPlease]

Came across an interesting post on Facebook this morning;

Hi Eugene Shafton, I’m happy to pass this info onto you & the group.
Late yesterday I was able to attend the St Kilda Past Players end of year function which ALSO INCLUDED a memorial service to a couple of Saints ‘66 Premiership players in “Cowboy” Neale & Alan Morrow. Later there was a Q & A with a StKilda recruiter & a presentation by the club of the Irish lad, Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

& Angus Hastie.
The recruiter advised that in St Kilda’s eyes they rated Hastie as Geelong Falcons best player & as Geelong didn’t take him with pick 32 ( taking Mitchell Edwards ) & knowing Geelong also had pick 36 we had to take Hastie with 33 or probably miss him. Have a look at his highlights reel, you will be very happy of the player he will develop into. When Hastie spoke to the group he said he was rapt to be recruited by the Saints ( like they all would ! ) BUT Also although Hastie was previously a Geelong supporter his great uncle played for StKilda so he’s very happy with the family connection.
Your second player, Cooper Stevens who drafted him as I can’t see any player with that name ???
Trust the recruiters as they put a lot of homework into the prospective targets.
I will say the recruiter also did say that they were only taking 3 in the draft, but they rated Hugo Garcia highly & presumed he would be gone so the draft pick swap of a 3rd rounder next year for Garcia. And of course did anyone expect Arie
Schoenmaker to drop to 62 ?? As he said “ we looked at each other & thought we can’t miss this opportunity “ & so used pick 62.
The club has done well without getting the bullshit trade picks that North Melbourne were given!!!!

On SM-T290 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RobbieMuir]

Came across an interesting post on Facebook this morning;

Hi Eugene Shafton, I’m happy to pass this info onto you & the group.
Late yesterday I was able to attend the St Kilda Past Players end of year function which ALSO INCLUDED a memorial service to a couple of Saints ‘66 Premiership players in “Cowboy” Neale & Alan Morrow. Later there was a Q & A with a StKilda recruiter & a presentation by the club of the Irish lad, Paddy Dow & Angus Hastie.
The recruiter advised that in St Kilda’s eyes they rated Hastie as Geelong Falcons best player & as Geelong didn’t take him with pick 32 ( taking Mitchell Edwards ) & knowing Geelong also had pick 36 we had to take Hastie with 33 or probably miss him. Have a look at his highlights reel, you will be very happy of the player he will develop into. When Hastie spoke to the group he said he was rapt to be recruited by the Saints ( like they all would ! ) BUT Also although Hastie was previously a Geelong supporter his great uncle played for StKilda so he’s very happy with the family connection.
Your second player, Cooper Stevens who drafted him as I can’t see any player with that name ???
Trust the recruiters as they put a lot of homework into the prospective targets.
I will say the recruiter also did say that they were only taking 3 in the draft, but they rated Hugo Garcia highly & presumed he would be gone so the draft pick swap of a 3rd rounder next year for Garcia. And of course did anyone expect Arie
Schoenmaker to drop to 62 ?? As he said “ we looked at each other & thought we can’t miss this opportunity “ & so used pick 62.
The club has done well without getting the bullshit trade picks that North Melbourne were given!!!!

On SM-T290 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Very interesting. We must have rated Garcia highly to have changed tactics at that late point. And having Schoenmaker fall into our lap like that made them again change tact. Our crew showed great flexibility, scrapping the decision to only take three picks, and it looks to have paid off big time.

I would assume that Mr Shafton fancied Cooper Simpson with our second pick but told the author his name was Cooper Stevens. (Or maybe he meant George Stevens.)

I’m also intrigued as to who Hastie’s great uncle was.

 

[gringo2011]

The qualities you list as Lyon prerequisites are surely desirable fir all coaches and players who tick all those boxes are rare.

If those are things his players must have, what is he prepared to sacrifice, or to put it another way:
Are there positives other coaches look for that you think Lyon cares less about?

That's why I believe we had a nice boy policy. We seemed to actively chase guys with very compliant and soft natures. Great for not going off the rails but not great for competitive spirit and ambition. Josh Bruce was sent packing for being too alpha around the bedwetters too.

 

[ScrappyDo]

That's why I believe we had a nice boy policy. We seemed to actively chase guys with very compliant and soft natures. Great for not going off the rails but not great for competitive spirit and ambition. Josh Bruce was sent packing for being too alpha around the bedwetters too.

Josh Bruce had a mental age of 14.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Hopefully we can become a successful club that sets trends in terms of match tactics and gameplay.

But when you’re just trying to emulate other teams your list building can become quickly off kilter when the best teams change the way they play.

It’s one of Ross Lyon’s best qualities is that he is a cutting edge thinker of the game. He knows what he wants and has a clear vision on how to compete in the modern era.

Ross Lyon’s clarity of vision gives Toce some really clear lanes to operate in.

Courage, pace, two way running, versatility and quality disposal are characteristics that Ross clearly wants.

I think the hawks game opened up rtb’s eyes immensely with the type of run and gun game they’re trying to pull off. He could see a future premiership team right there and decided to get ahead of them.

 

[Strahany]

Josh Bruce had a mental age of 14.

Months?

 

[gringo2011]

I think the hawks game opened up rtb’s eyes immensely with the type of run and gun game they’re trying to pull off. He could see a future premiership team right there and decided to get ahead of them.

He has always loved a two way runner over a prime mover extractor. Came to us the second time with an eye on our runners so I think that's always been there.

Hawks will be interesting to watch. Mitchell has a unique set up and game plan. Lots of inside mids and plays the quick handball game to beat the press. He's moved on even more of their tall timber this off season as well. It's either madness or genius and I'm not sure which yet.

 

[saintmike65]

That's why I believe we had a nice boy policy. We seemed to actively chase guys with very compliant and soft natures. Great for not going off the rails but not great for competitive spirit and ambition. Josh Bruce was sent packing for being too alpha around the bedwetters too.

Yes, private school choir boys were the flavour for over a decade..got us nowhere!

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I think the hawks game opened up rtb’s eyes immensely with the type of run and gun game they’re trying to pull off. He could see a future premiership team right there and decided to get ahead of them.

It’s funny though - we’ve brought in so many quick guys, but where we were smashed at times was in the middle. Hopefully Dow helps.