List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[Sainter1873]

I'm resigned to the fact we won't end up with 13, but surely we aren't trading it straight for Shiel?
We aren't in cap trouble and can take his whole contract if needed. So why don't we just take the regular Gresham compensation (Band2/3) and trade for Shiel seperately if we want him so bad? He won't cost much at all surely.

Heck, even trade our Band 3 compensation Shiel. It's the same result for us and we aren't gifting another team a first rounder.

Very much doubt we’re trading that compensation pick back to Essendon. That deal is heavily stacked in favour of Essendon. We either keep the pick and give them a later pick or we swap it.

 

[gringo2011]

Personally I think Dow & Henry improve our list. Enough to make top 4? NO. I hope we got those 2 in and some draft picks. RTB has said all year we want to hit the draft. Could we trade Howard + our 1st pick to the Cats for their pick 7? They have Rata leaving, makes sense.

Dow probably a little bit if he can step up. I think Henry plays the Byrnes high half forward role and to me he's probably a similar type with maybe a 10% up grade and less likely to go missing.

Seb Ross is really starting to struggle to put together games so you lose him and all of a sudden Dow probably break even.

Both are young enough to still have potential growth though. Both improve depth which means we ae less likely to have our season start to wobble when another mid goes down.

 

[D2D3]

I'm resigned to the fact we won't end up with 13, but surely we aren't trading it straight for Shiel?
We aren't in cap trouble and can take his whole contract if needed. So why don't we just take the regular Gresham compensation (Band2/3) and trade for Shiel seperately if we want him so bad? He won't cost much at all surely.

Heck, even trade our Band 3 compensation Shiel. It's the same result for us and we aren't gifting another team a first rounder.

Taking Shiel would be a favour to Essendon.

The notion we’d trade them pick 13 for him is absurd.

 

[Remboy]

One the main issues we need to resolve is this. I think most of us rate Coffield, Jones, Billings, McKenzie and Hayes as players to varying degrees. But these figures make stark reading.
In 2023 they played 8 games out of a possible 120 games collectively. In 2022 they played 38 out of 110 games. Across the last two seasons that's 46 out of 230 games.

The question is can we afford to keep rewarding players with contracts that continuously struggle to string games together. I know it's tough but that's a big chunk of our list that's been missing across those five players. Given his age and upside I wouldn't be getting rid of Coffield. The rest wouldn't bother me although I'd like to see Hayes get a full pre season under his belt.

I agree with your overall argument but at this stage we’ve delisted four players and you’d have to think Allison and Highmore are on thin ice. That’s six players potentially gone before we even consider the five you’ve mentioned.
I can’t see DMac getting a contract but with the others it could come down to a choice between them or pick 100 in the draft. The club might think it’s worth giving them a year as opposed to a kid who isn’t going to make it.

 

[Premium]

So Coffield and Clark must be worth a heap too then. We should get two top 10 picks if we trade them.

They all are in different situations and what I think the clubs would want for them.

Coffield (24yr)showed he could play 4 yrs ago - taking the 5th most marks in the AFL , the following year he got dropped , next 2 years he has been injured --- jury is out because he is now no school boy and has not played senior football for 2 yrs.
---- fully expect the kid to be a player and could well have major upside / but of course who knows
Was pick 9 in his draft year , would suggest he would be worth something around pick 25 - 30 now and not worth giving him away for that due to he could have more upside than a lot of the kids in this years draft first round.

Clark (24yr) - has shown glimpses of brilliance , has played his best football as a halfback - but has been shown up if he has to make his opponent accountable , because he is just to slow.
A part from that his physical shape has not really changed from when he was plucked from the draft and seems to find injury every season.
Was pick 8 in his draft year and like Coffield has been in the system 6 years and would be imo lucky to get a pick in the late 20s for him.

Henry (22yr) - kid has only showed this year he has the talent to be a very good player - basically ready to show his best , so development been done - was pick 9 in his draft year and due to his age would expect him to be worth a pick around 20 now.
Only played 15 games this yr was dropped at the beginning of the yr and when brought back in surprised with 3 x 30+ disposal games playing on a wing - picked up 3 Brownlow votes for his outstanding game against the Dogs - a player on the rise.

Dow (24yr) - was pick 3 in his draft , has need lived up to the hype he was given in his draft year and has been in the system long enough to see his worth , these year he has shown his best performances picking up 20 odd disposal games when played - however was only given 10 games and seems to be well out of the teams best 22.
His biggest floor his his disposal , however has speed , endurance and can find the ball ---
After being 6yrs in the system and only playing 10 games I would expect him to be a late 2 round pick. --- pick 35 to 40

 

[Silkie]

Taking Shiel would be a favour to Essendon.

The notion we’d trade them pick 13 for him is absurd.

Truly moronic stuff going on over at the Essendon board. That's what they think is happening. Collingwood average score this finals series IQ type stuff.

 

[SaintWWodonga]

Taking Shiel would be a favour to Essendon.

The notion we’d trade them pick 13 for him is absurd.

I'd rather match their bid if they want pick 13 back. Bombers are terrible to deal with.

 

[Premium]

Taking Shiel would be a favour to Essendon.

The notion we’d trade them pick 13 for him is absurd.

If he never had his million dollar contract he would be border line de-listed like what DMac and Jones are.
Having injuries at 31 like that when his main asset is his speed is basically retirement time.

Take his contract for a round one draft pick sure - but he is cooked - stress fractures of the feet only get worse with age and add that on top of his soft tissue injuries.

Hopefully we do another deal like it for another player who will assist our midfield.

 

[gringo2011]

So if a player comes to the club, is in the opinion of Lyon, Harvey, Hayes, and Enright is good enough to be in the seniors on form, you don't want him there? You are basically saying you don't want the coaches to select the best players for the team.
I would hope they select any player on form and best fit for structure. If Sheil is good enough he should be selected, if he is no good he gets dropped.
Coffield plays a different position to Sheil he should be worried more about Stocker, Battle Webster, even Naz and Henry for his position

Sheil would be up against Jones, Ross, Ronny more than anyone.
I like everyone understands Sheil is currently a 30 who is constantly Injured.

But as have been stated he will on be at the Saints if we get pick 13, if that is not the prize, we'll we just take the compo or hopefully keep Gresh.
I don't think it is a disaster. We won't challenge next year and the oldies Sheil and Jones are uncontracted after 2024.

If feel 2024 is an interim year, building through draft and trading for some youngens in Henry and Dow, and hopefully one or two draftees.
We are weakest in the mids. The old blokes would be good depth. Our futuremids like Pou and chito showed in the final how far they are off it. Another year of development running through the guts will hold us in good stead.
Remember Pou should really be drafted only this year, and got 24 games experience as an underage recruit.

I think there is way too much focus on a steak knives player and not the medium term strategy.


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It's not a permanent fix and will cost us long term. If he's not there they can't use him. You don't want to many older players when you are in a draft lead rebuild.

Coffield still needs a list spot. Shiel even for upgrade purposes kills off someone else's spot.

Steak knives and role playing GOPs are Lyon's downfall. He can fall in love with average players who love to work hard. I'd rather not give him the option.

 

[L_W_P]

Ok so what if we get 2x 2nd rounders back with Shiel?

Lose: Gresham
Gain: Shiel (on $0, Bombers pay it all) + 29 + f2nd rounder

Flip the F2nd for Henry.

Go to the draft with 12, 29 + 33.

We then front load as much as we can into that Shiel sized hole in the cap. If he gets fit then he earns another 1yr deal, if not then we have a list spot to fill and a fair bit of cap to use.

Essentially we've traded Gresham for Henry + 29.

I think that works?

 

[gubby88]

It's not a permanent fix and will cost us long term. If he's not there they can't use him. You don't want to many older players when you are in a draft lead rebuild.

Coffield still needs a list spot. Shiel even for upgrade purposes kills off someone else's spot.

Steak knives and role playing GOPs are Lyon's downfall. He can fall in love with average players who love to work hard. I'd rather not give him the option.

The only thing that would show is that our kids aren't ready to mix with the big boys yet...

There would be no promises made, we take your salary, you fight like everyone else

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[Dard Ball Get]

Huge news.
Sinclair has cut his mullet off

 

[gringo2011]

Well I didn’t say Dow and Henry were worth top 10 picks. I implied they weren’t worth next to nothing after another poster implied they were.

I would expect reasonable fair return for both Coff and Clark even if they are a bit older. Not first round picks.

I reckon Clark and Coffield would get us a third rounder each at the moment. You could argue that they would be worth around what Carlton got for Stocker.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Rather give a list spot to a mature ager around the states who his working his ass off to make it then Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

32

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

tbh.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Rather give a list spot to a mature ager around the states who his working his ass off to make it then Dylan Shiel tbh.

Any of those come with pick 13?

 

[gringo2011]

The only thing that would show is that our kids aren't ready to mix with the big boys yet...

There would be no promises made, we take your salary, you fight like everyone else

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100% but he's going to walk into our best 5 mids in a canter. You aren't putting minutes into a kid when he's going to be in our best mids but it's a band-aid fix that will work for about 12 to 24 months and then be back where we started....and that's if his body doesn't break down.

Playing kids is an investment, you aren't getting an immediate pay off.

 

[gringo2011]

Well said.

Theres no way thats it.

Ross is and always has been about minimising mistakes and brain fades, hed sooner take a solid b grader than a volatile a grader.

Doogs, love him or hate him, makes dumb ******* mistakes, thats why Ross wont love him and thats also why his confidence is likely shoddy.

Ross' feelings kind of mirror most of ours, if Doogs could stop the 2-3 goal a game brain fades he would be a genuinely elite key defender.

Doubt he's had regular 2 or 3 goals kicked on him in this year. He's pretty solid. After watching Cordy run around like headless chook I'm not as keen to see the back of Doogs. Dougal is frustrating but Cordy was proper out of his depth.

 

[D2D3]

Rather give a list spot to a mature ager around the states who his working his ass off to make it then Dylan Shiel tbh.

I would also prefer that. If the bombers don’t actually pay Gresham more than we are willing to simply match and if he walks to the draft (and to North Melbourne or Hawthorn) so be it.

Least keeping the list spot doesn’t actively hurt our list and salary cap.

 

[gringo2011]

Any of those come with pick 13?

He doesn't either. He might get a few places upgraded on Gresham's compensation. It's not like we get a straight Shiel deal and get given 13. Even then the AFL are just as likely to not give us the extra compo because of their shit formula that they make up as they go.

 

[gringo2011]

Huge news.
Sinclair has cut his mullet off

There goes 15 Brownlow votes.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

He doesn't either. He might get a few places upgraded on Gresham's compensation. It's not like we get a straight Shiel deal and get given 13. Even then the AFL are just as likely to not give us the extra compo because of their s**t formula that they make up as they go.

Loving the mindset that Shiel is taking the last possible spot on the list.
The jumping at shadows, the stating of facts. Worst thread every year by far

 

[beside the seaside]

Rather give a list spot to a mature ager around the states who his working his ass off to make it then Dylan Shiel tbh.

Come on. The bagging of Shiel is a bit over the top. My old man goes for the Bombers and he loves Shiel. He has had bad luck with injuries lately but if he does come to us he'll be good. He has been overpaid, good on him but to make him out like he's some hack is a bit much.

 

[Joffaboy]

It's not a permanent fix and will cost us long term. If he's not there they can't use him. You don't want to many older players when you are in a draft lead rebuild.

Coffield still needs a list spot. Shiel even for upgrade purposes kills off someone else's spot.

Steak knives and role playing GOPs are Lyon's downfall. He can fall in love with average players who love to work hard. I'd rather not give him the option.

Of course it's not a permanent fix, it is not even a fix. It is a one year depth cover to get a frdp who can be developed over time.

The mids are weakest in the team. The kids while really promising can't run through it full time, they are physically underdeveloped an just not experienced enough.
Our core mids are ageing but still have a couple of years, Crouch Steele and Ross can still be valuable for 3 to 4 years.

Coffield has been offered a two year deal so obviously has a list spot.

As for role players and gops being Lyon's downfall, if you say so and it suits your views. Every team has role players and gops, so I really have no idea what you are on about here.
Sheil would be one year, if he does a Wood, that would be good for the team. It won't destroy the team, did Lewis destroy Melbourne? Did Hodge wreck Brisbane?

It's an interim and you keep ignoring the frdp that is what the whole deal is about.

That last line is just madness. You don't want the best players selected from the list and now you say you don't want hard workers?
Really strange to argue that you want poor players who don't work hard in before others on the list. You don't want to give the team the best chance to win?


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[Joffaboy]

Rather give a list spot to a mature ager around the states who his working his ass off to make it then Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

32

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

tbh.

Does that come with pick 13?

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Spider Eater]

Huge news.
Sinclair has cut his mullet off

That will free up some cap space.