List Mgmt. 2023 Draft Thread - Part I

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ScrappyDo said:
The quality of kids is obviously still TBD but Garcia is the one is the one I'm looking at to give us an indication as to Toce's acumen. We overpaid for him and he didn't appear on any radars prior to being drafted. Bit of a James Gwilt moment.
SOS was very canny, the more l look into it the more impressive it's getting. Again some luck was involved but he squeezed absolutely every drop out of it.
Click to expand...
I’m tipping Hugo Garcia will be the surprise packet of our draft crop.
I watched an extensive package of him playing for Assumption college and was taken with his combination of speed & endurance..plus his decision making & goal sense.
 
ScrappyDo said:
As best l can figure, on balance it was:

Collard -- Gresh
Garcia -- Billings
Henry -- free
Shoey -- free
Bonner -- free
Dow & Hastie -- Coff + 3rd & f4th
Wilson -- FRDP

Though there'sa strong element of luck attached, there's no doubt SOS made his own this time around.
If you want to add Stocker and Hammer to the freebies group (personally l wouldn't) then so much the better.
Click to expand...
Actually a real Sliding Doors moment.

The above or:

Shiel
Leake
Wilson
Garcia
Schoenmaker
No future second
No Collard
No Hastie (assuming his pick went to the Bombers)

Or something very similar.
It will be interesting to see which side of the door we end up.
 
gringo2011 said:
Gresham was one of the only ones that kept up in the GWS final. Not sure he was fringe. Think he improved. He was one of our few that looked on his way to elite early on, injury ruined a few years but he has potential to still be a gun. Billings wanted out because he saw the writing on the wall. I probably would have held him as depth and hoped that he could push back in rather than pay him to play elsewhere. If the kids coming in to his empty list spot spot end up guns I'll eat my words.

Anyway, so far it looks like we have done well topping up the list with not a great starting spot so fingers crossed to was an inspired move. I'm still stuck in the Trout era where we'd trade players out and take a s**t downgrade with the picks.
Click to expand...
Gresham was never fringe. Have watched back some games from this year and he was always one of our better players, it is just the hatred towards him on this forum that colours people's opinion.

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saintmike65 said:
I’m tipping Hugo Garcia will be the surprise packet of our draft crop.
I watched an extensive package of him playing for Assumption college and was taken with his combination of speed & endurance..plus his decision making & goal sense.
Click to expand...
Apparently they have a subject at Assumption run by an ex AFL list manager called AFL, and goes through everything to be expected when drafted.
Should be the most prepared out of all the draftees.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
sunny3193 said:
Actually a real Sliding Doors moment.

The above or:

Shiel
Leake
Wilson
Garcia
Schoenmaker
No future second
No Collard
No Hastie (assuming his pick went to the Bombers)

Or something very similar.
It will be interesting to see which side of the door we end up.
Click to expand...
Talk from Toomey is we went after North's pick directly after our 1st, I'm assuming to get Edwards but it could have been another. That would have cost us the Collard pick and the future 2nd, maybe something coming back like a f3rd which would have covered for Shiel. Or we'd have just used our last f3rd for Hastie and only be left with a 1stRDP next year which would be a very poor outcome.

Shiel 1.2M $
Wilson
Edwards
Hastie
Garcia
Schoenmaker
No future 2nd, 3rd, 4th
No Bonner

I'm very glad we didn't get Shiel and that we still have a 2nd and 3rd next year.
I would have liked Edwards but the cost to our overall position was gonna be way too high.
Without anyone obvious to trade out next year it'll be more lean anyway, but you'd hope Cole is good enough and gets to us then we can shuffle up the order a bit or get another value deal like Dow and Henry.

I can see 2025 future picks being spent on a big trade though as the timing fits the build.
Opportunity for Gubby to do something other than SFA.
 
gringo2011 said:
Probably too early to call but so far Sos and Toce have been very good. Billings and Gresham walking out means we need to get more from what we got for them but other than that they have done a lot with a little.
Click to expand...

Salary cap relief and the extra picks were the obvious benefit, there are plenty of positives with off loading perenial inconsistent and over paid players. Being afraid to take a risk would see us remain a middle of the road club for years. Finally the club has drawn a line in the sand and been brave enough to move on players who were not going to take us forward.

Billings, Gresham, Coffield and others had been victims of poor development, coaching and expectation during their formative years. The club has addressed that and made the tough decisions to bring in fresh blood to benefit from the new and improved system. I have no doubt the new players, will far and away out perform the old. Not all will be sucess stories, but at least the club has given themselves a chance to improve.

You only had to note what BJ said in his latest interview that when he come back to the club, that the young group of players were the most professional and advanced younger players he had witnessed.
 
Last edited:
SteeleSaints said:
Salary cap relief and the extra picks were the obvious benefit, there are plenty of positives with off loading perenial inconsistent and over paid players. Being afraid to take a risk would see us remain a middle of the road club for years. Finally the club has drawn a line in the sand and been brave enough to move on players who were not going to take us forward.

Billings, Gresham, Coffield and others had been victims of poor development, coaching and expectation during their formative years. The club has addressed that and made the tough decisions to bring in fresh blood to benefit from the new and improved system. I have no doubt the new players, will far and away out perform the old. Not all will be sucess stories, but at least the club has given themselves a improve.

You only had to note what BJ said in his latest interview that when he come back to the club, that the young group of players were the most professional and advanced younger players he had witnessed.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget injury , ACL and Achilles and nothing to sneeze at.
 
ScrappyDo said:
Talk from Toomey is we went after North's pick directly after our 1st, I'm assuming to get Edwards but it could have been another. That would have cost us the Collard pick and the future 2nd, maybe something coming back like a f3rd which would have covered for Shiel. Or we'd have just used our last f3rd for Hastie and only be left with a 1stRDP next year which would be a very poor outcome.

Shiel 1.2M $
Wilson
Edwards
Hastie
Garcia
Schoenmaker
No future 2nd, 3rd, 4th
No Bonner

I'm very glad we didn't get Shiel and that we still have a 2nd and 3rd next year.
I would have liked Edwards but the cost to our overall position was gonna be way too high.
Without anyone obvious to trade out next year it'll be more lean anyway, but you'd hope Cole is good enough and gets to us then we can shuffle up the order a bit or get another value deal like Dow and Henry.

I can see 2025 future picks being spent on a big trade though as the timing fits the build.
Opportunity for Gubby to do something other than SFA.
Click to expand...
Doubt Gubby did SFA ,as I see a few of his sort of picks in our 5 draft choices
 
ScrappyDo said:
Talk from Toomey is we went after North's pick directly after our 1st, I'm assuming to get Edwards but it could have been another. That would have cost us the Collard pick and the future 2nd, maybe something coming back like a f3rd which would have covered for Shiel. Or we'd have just used our last f3rd for Hastie and only be left with a 1stRDP next year which would be a very poor outcome.

Shiel 1.2M $
Wilson
Edwards
Hastie
Garcia
Schoenmaker
No future 2nd, 3rd, 4th
No Bonner

I'm very glad we didn't get Shiel and that we still have a 2nd and 3rd next year.
I would have liked Edwards but the cost to our overall position was gonna be way too high.
Without anyone obvious to trade out next year it'll be more lean anyway, but you'd hope Cole is good enough and gets to us then we can shuffle up the order a bit or get another value deal like Dow and Henry.

I can see 2025 future picks being spent on a big trade though as the timing fits the build.
Opportunity for Gubby to do something other than SFA.
Click to expand...
You make some really good points up until throwing Gubby under the bus…we have no idea about what he does behind the scenes!
 
ScrappyDo said:
The quality of kids is obviously still TBD but Garcia is the one is the one I'm looking at to give us an indication as to Toce's acumen. We overpaid for him and he didn't appear on any radars prior to being drafted. Bit of a James Gwilt moment.
SOS was very canny, the more l look into it the more impressive it's getting. Again some luck was involved but he squeezed absolutely every drop out of it.
Click to expand...
Hugo looks impressive from what I've seen and shifter spoke very highly of his pace & football ability. SOS, Toce & Gubby doing a mighty fine job imo.
 
SteeleSaints said:
Salary cap relief and the extra picks were the obvious benefit, there are plenty of positives with off loading perenial inconsistent and over paid players. Being afraid to take a risk would see us remain a middle of the road club for years. Finally the club has drawn a line in the sand and been brave enough to move on players who were not going to take us forward.

Billings, Gresham, Coffield and others had been victims of poor development, coaching and expectation during their formative years. The club has addressed that and made the tough decisions to bring in fresh blood to benefit from the new and improved system. I have no doubt the new players, will far and away out perform the old. Not all will be sucess stories, but at least the club has given themselves a improve.

You only had to note what BJ said in his latest interview that when he come back to the club, that the young group of players were the most professional and advanced younger players he had witnessed.
Click to expand...


Well that's not exactly true. Taking risks is a gamble. It can take you forward or backwards. There is no such thing as having to gamble to get ahead. It does relive salary cap space but we are also paying for Billings to play elsewhere.

It's not right or wrong but it's a direction and we are at least moving.
 
saintmike65 said:
I’m tipping Hugo Garcia will be the surprise packet of our draft crop.
I watched an extensive package of him playing for Assumption college and was taken with his combination of speed & endurance..plus his decision making & goal sense.
Click to expand...
Yes that clip provided a eally good set of Hugo's highlights. Lots to work with there and suits RTB game style
 
Lightsxo said:
He can bully my first born for all I care as long as he helps us win a flag.

Drafting Trouts nanny boys got us spuds like Newnes

Get some campaigner into us
Click to expand...

I've always said I would hire the worst people in the world, and name them in the starting 22, if it meant a flag ...

... no asterisks in my world ...

... I believe a few sessions at DFC can solve anything.
 

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ScrappyDo said:
Talk from Toomey is we went after North's pick directly after our 1st, I'm assuming to get Edwards but it could have been another. That would have cost us the Collard pick and the future 2nd, maybe something coming back like a f3rd which would have covered for Shiel. Or we'd have just used our last f3rd for Hastie and only be left with a 1stRDP next year which would be a very poor outcome.

Shiel 1.2M $
Wilson
Edwards
Hastie
Garcia
Schoenmaker
No future 2nd, 3rd, 4th
No Bonner

I'm very glad we didn't get Shiel and that we still have a 2nd and 3rd next year.
I would have liked Edwards but the cost to our overall position was gonna be way too high.
Without anyone obvious to trade out next year it'll be more lean anyway, but you'd hope Cole is good enough and gets to us then we can shuffle up the order a bit or get another value deal like Dow and Henry.

I can see 2025 future picks being spent on a big trade though as the timing fits the build.
Opportunity for Gubby to do something other than SFA.
Click to expand...
Who's Cole Scrappy?
 
ScrappyDo said:
Talk from Toomey is we went after North's pick directly after our 1st, I'm assuming to get Edwards but it could have been another. That would have cost us the Collard pick and the future 2nd, maybe something coming back like a f3rd which would have covered for Shiel. Or we'd have just used our last f3rd for Hastie and only be left with a 1stRDP next year which would be a very poor outcome.

Shiel 1.2M $
Wilson
Edwards
Hastie
Garcia
Schoenmaker
No future 2nd, 3rd, 4th
No Bonner

I'm very glad we didn't get Shiel and that we still have a 2nd and 3rd next year.
I would have liked Edwards but the cost to our overall position was gonna be way too high.
Without anyone obvious to trade out next year it'll be more lean anyway, but you'd hope Cole is good enough and gets to us then we can shuffle up the order a bit or get another value deal like Dow and Henry.

I can see 2025 future picks being spent on a big trade though as the timing fits the build.
Opportunity for Gubby to do something other than SFA.
Click to expand...
If gubby is doing SFA then why is he attending games here in WA with Toce. SOS was not present.

Collard and Henry were either playing or at the ground. Players we were linked too also there like edwards.

I'd be very very surprised if gubby isn't knee deep in discussions with player managers, their families and the players themselves.
 
No doubt Gresham is best 22 but I think he hurt the side and contributed significantly to one of the big issues we had. Which was efficiency to convert movement forward into score.

The amount of time he turned certain goals into turn over is not sustainable and I don't think that was ever going to improve.

When you couple this with Ross focus on maximising the salary cap and ensuring we get bang for buck where we spend our dollar. Then you can see why Gresham isn't at our club anymore. The $$$ required to keep him out weight his output.
 
ScrappyDo said:
NGA kid coming through next year.
From 4:50 if you can stand the interviewers.

On the Radar: Get to know STK Academy's Adrian Cole

Adrian Cole is far from reaching his ceiling as he approaches his draft year, with his time as part of Moorabbin Airport STK Academy helping him reach new heights.
www.saints.com.au
Click to expand...
Cole not in a lot of Top 40s and isn't even named in the best group of NGAs next year. Things might change, but atm he should be safe.
 
StCicatriz said:
No doubt Gresham is best 22 but I think he hurt the side and contributed significantly to one of the big issues we had. Which was efficiency to convert movement forward into score.

The amount of time he turned certain goals into turn over is not sustainable and I don't think that was ever going to improve.

When you couple this with Ross focus on maximising the salary cap and ensuring we get bang for buck where we spend our dollar. Then you can see why Gresham isn't at our club anymore. The $$$ required to keep him out weight his output.
Click to expand...


He seemed to start the year looking lost and was front running when he should have been minding and minding when he should get off the chain. He seemed to get back some of his mojo late in the year.

It will either be a genius move to cut his big contract free for a broken down player that never reaches his potential or a bite on the arse when he finally gets his body right probably. At the end of the day I doubt anyone cares if we are playing finals and look like we have a bright future ourselves. The despair used to kick in when we'd go sell the cow for some beans and then lose the beans on the train on the way home every year.

Losing a few overpaid players isn't a bad thing and resets some expectations. Agree his potential hadn't met his pay packet for long enough periods.
 
gringo2011 said:
He seemed to start the year looking lost and was front running when he should have been minding and minding when he should get off the chain. He seemed to get back some of his mojo late in the year.

It will either be a genius move to cut his big contract free for a broken down player that never reaches his potential or a bite on the arse when he finally gets his body right probably. At the end of the day I doubt anyone cares if we are playing finals and look like we have a bright future ourselves. The despair used to kick in when we'd go sell the cow for some beans and then lose the beans on the train on the way home every year.

Losing a few overpaid players isn't a bad thing and resets some expectations. Agree his potential hadn't met his pay packet for long enough periods.
Click to expand...
All we can do is support the current pack of players.

The club was shocking for the best part of 10 years, but we have changed the list and I feel have gotten players who have passion.

Winning and playing good football is the tonic.
 
Joffaboy said:
Gresham was never fringe. Have watched back some games from this year and he was always one of our better players, it is just the hatred towards him on this forum that colours people's opinion.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

I dont believe anyone showed him hatred, its more an objective opinion on his worth to the team. You suggest he was one of our better players in a number of games, but he was rarely named in the best and received very few coaches votes. Those things are evidence based as is the club B&F top 10 and as a result the $$$ he was asking made him an easy target for criticism.
 
StCicatriz said:
If gubby is doing SFA then why is he attending games here in WA with Toce. SOS was not present.

Collard and Henry were either playing or at the ground. Players we were linked too also there like edwards.

I'd be very very surprised if gubby isn't knee deep in discussions with player managers, their families and the players themselves.
Click to expand...
Well l reckon he's a useless kent. What's your evidence otherwise? He couldn't even get the Sheil trade over the line.
 

List Mgmt. 2023 Draft Thread - Part I


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