List Mgmt. 2023 Draft Thread - Part I

[SaintsSeptember]

So it was a dumb mistake taking NWM with a first round pick?

The dumbest mistakes we have made is that we haven’t been able to take the best available talent with our picks, wherever that position may be.

I agree:

Billings , probably considered to be best available at the time, or close to it. ( Billings , Scharenberg, Aish were the main ones discussed ) There were plenty of concerns about Bont.

McCartin: Needs choice. After the Maister and Lee failures we were desperate for a key forward.
Goddard / McKenzie. We probably thought we were taking the best available but we were crap at talent spotting. Miller/Maynard would have been good. Goddard was probably partly a needs choice.
Gresham was best available. That draft is littered with delisted mids taken after him.
Ben Long : Apparently we "needed" the next Cyril .
Clark and Coffield were best available. ( Coffield may still prove himself ). O'Brian, Ling both highly regarded mids before that draft.
King: Best available. Any think we should have got Bailey Smith instead? Tarryn Thomas? Chayce Jones?
Wanganeen-Milera : Best available. Vs Sinn, Hobbs, Chesser.
Phillipou: Best available. Vs Hollands. Fletcher. Busslinger. Hollands would have been OK , but i think long term the Pou will be the man.

Good chance that this year the best player available at our pick will not be a mid.
If Toce is up to it, i'd rather a gun small forward or key defender, than a Ryan Byrnes type midfielder taken with our first pick.
Its up to him which are the choices, but if he doesn't pick a mid, i'll be happy that there is a solid reason why.

 

[BrutThough]

Disagree, what is dumb is repeating our mistakes of the last ten years
We need two mids, and who says Murphy is best available ahead of the list of mids at our pick.
I suppose a key defender will get a lot of development as our mids are crushed game after game though, so yeah good plan

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Many people with much greater knowledge about this draft than anyone on here rate Murphy higher than a lot of the mids we are discussing at our pick.

Maybe we draft him, maybe we dont. But if he is the best available, we should take him because we need more good players in every position.

 

[Joffaboy]

You can only draft the kids who are in the draft.
Yes it would be nice if we could draft Jamie Cripps and Christian Petracca with our first two picks.
But if we go looking for the next best and draft someone who washes out completely, THAT'S DUMB.

Whoever we draft is unlikely to fix your concerns about our mids being crushed in the next couple of years.
Windhager is two years in and just finding his feet. Byrnes another year older than that.
You don't just pull a kid out of a sardine can and go , "oh good, 18 disposal/game midfielder ready to go".

Who said anything about a Cripps or Petracca? We aren't North you know. We have not had a midfield for a decade, have begun building one but people want a key defender because he is a Saints supporter. If that's not peak Saints I don't know what is.
And who says any pick won't be a wash out?
McCartin, Billings, Coffield, all top ten, all gone, Wilkie, Sinclair both rookies both AA.

Repeating the same mistakes in not selecting 1st round mids, in my view has seen us as also rans since 2010

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[Joffaboy]

Many people with much greater knowledge about this draft than anyone on here rate Murphy higher than a lot of the mids we are discussing at our pick.

Maybe we draft him, maybe we dont. But if he is the best available, we should take him because we need more good players in every position.

Maybe so, just like they rated half back flankers and fat key forwards over mids for a decade.
Funnily enough, this is a forum where football supporters give their opinion, and my opinion is we have screamed out for mids for a decade.
We may pick Murphy and he is a star. Great happy to be proven wrong, just like most of us are on football opinions.
Still think we need more decent 1st round mids over anything.

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[stavro#4]

Just keep it simple.


Best available.

Dont over think it.

We need everything.

Any mid we take will have plenty of issues. Hence why they won’t be a top 10 pick

 

[Joffaboy]

So it was a dumb mistake taking NWM with a first round pick?

The dumbest mistakes we have made is that we haven’t been able to take the best available talent with our picks, wherever that position may be.

No wasn't dumb, but we got Windy and Owens in the same draft as NGA's.
They are the backbone of our young mids. Then we got Pou and Hotton, more good selections in my view.
We need to keep building through the mids.
It's all my view, don't see why it upsets so many on here.

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[SaintsSeptember]

Who said anything about a Cripps or Petracca? We aren't North you know. We have not had a midfield for a decade, have begun building one but people want a key defender because he is a Saints supporter. If that's not peak Saints I don't know what is.
And who says any pick won't be a wash out?
McCartin, Billings, Coffield, all top ten, all gone, Wilkie, Sinclair both rookies both AA.

Repeating the same mistakes in not selecting 1st round mids, in my view has seen us as also rans since 2010

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So apart from McCartin, when did we not select first round mids and when should we have?

Murphy will probably be gone when it gets to our pick. BECAUSE HE'S HIGHLY RATED.
If he's not we should take him. IDGAF who he supports.
Same goes for Collard IMO.

 

[Joffaboy]

So apart from McCartin, when did we not select first round mids and when should we have?

Murphy will probably be gone when it gets to our pick. BECAUSE HE'S HIGHLY RATED.
If he's not we should take him. IDGAF who he supports.
Same goes for Collard IMO.

2017 went for 2 half backs, one gone, one struggling to go through the mids
2018, King, good choice, no argument but didn't get a mid as per your question
2019, Jones in a trade, no frdp
2020 Crouch as a trade, Alison as frdp
2021, Naz, no argument as we got Windy and chito
So there is 5 straight years with no mid in the first round.
Answers the question however doesn't mean we didn't get mids, Jones Crouch, Windy, Chito. Later rounds, Bytel, Byrnes.
However Pou is our first frdp mid since we'll I can't remember, maybe Armo?

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[Winmar2Lockett]

Who said anything about a Cripps or Petracca? We aren't North you know. We have not had a midfield for a decade, have begun building one but people want a key defender because he is a Saints supporter. If that's not peak Saints I don't know what is.
And who says any pick won't be a wash out?
McCartin, Billings, Coffield, all top ten, all gone, Wilkie, Sinclair both rookies both AA.

Repeating the same mistakes in not selecting 1st round mids, in my view has seen us as also rans since 2010

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I didn't even know Murphy was a Saints supporter.

I like him because he's the best key defender behind O'Sullivan that may be available.

That & the lack of top end mids available at our picks.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

2017 went for 2 half backs, one gone, one struggling to go through the mids
2018, King, good choice, no argument but didn't get a mid as per your question
2019, Jones in a trade, no frdp
2020 Crouch as a trade, Alison as frdp
2021, Naz, no argument as we got Windy and chito
So there is 5 straight years with no mid in the first round.
Answers the question however doesn't mean we didn't get mids, Jones Crouch, Windy, Chito. Later rounds, Bytel, Byrnes.
However Pou is our first frdp mid since we'll I can't remember, maybe Armo?

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2017: Gone from us, no reason his career won't kick on from here. Clark probably a better mid than the mids taken after him in that draft that have been delisted. :/
2019: Yep, Hill cost us.
2020: Who would you have taken in that draft? Poulter a fringe player at best.

Yes we need mids but you won't get a top rated mid just because you really really really want one Veruca.

You can cry all you like about Coffield and Clark, but the gun mid you wanted was not there in that draft.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Only realistic pick swap, could be with Geelong yeah?

13,21,40 for 8, 25 & token 76.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Only realistic pick swap, could be with Geelong yeah?

13,21,40 for 8, 25 & token 76.

Why bother with a "token" pick?
Why would the cats want pick 8 less than we would?

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Many people with much greater knowledge about this draft than anyone on here rate Murphy higher than a lot of the mids we are discussing at our pick.

Maybe we draft him, maybe we dont. But if he is the best available, we should take him because we need more good players in every position.

Probably not in every position.
Full-Back is our immediate need, so would have to be a mature ager from somewhere?
Having picked up Dow & Henry who fill our mid-speed needs, maybe we wait until next year's crop.
And we are still not sure, if Hotton, Owens & Windhager are going to end up fully-fledged midfielders?, which I think we believe, is going to be the case.
And if we believe that the KPD'S & Rucks are going to be good in this draft, then maybe it's the way to go for longer-term investment.
The small to med. forwards seem to be the strength of this draft after pick 10.
And as an e.g, you are never going to malign the drafting of players like Fisher, Gwilt, Hudghton, but in a way it was our downfall, having the shortest key-back line out of anyone at the time.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Why bother with a "token" pick?
Why would the cats want pick 8 less than we would?

Apart from 8 & 25, they have useless? picks. But yeah, i'm only throwing it out there

 

[ScrappyDo]

Only realistic pick swap, could be with Geelong yeah?

13,21,40 for 8, 25 & token 76.

13 & 21 for 15 & 18 is something l don't mind depending who's available.

13 & 21 for 6 & 42 if Sanders is still there.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Probably not in every position.
Full-Back is our immediate need, so would have to be a mature ager from somewhere?
Having picked up Dow & Henry who fill our mid-speed needs, maybe we wait until next year's crop.
And we are still not sure, if Hotton, Owens & Windhager are going to end up fully-fledged midfielders?, which I think we believe, is going to be the case.
And if we believe that the KPD'S & Rucks are going to be good in this draft, then maybe it's the way to go for longer-term investment.
The small to med. forwards seem to be the strength of this draft after pick 10.
And as an e.g, you are never going to malign the drafting of players like Fisher, Gwilt, Hudghton, but in a way it was our downfall, having the shortest key-back line out of anyone at the time.

Fisher was an AA HBF. Thrust into the role of key defender because he was good at it.
Gwilt only played the role when desperate.
Hudghton was rarely beaten .

While we have Howard and Cordy, with Van Es developing, i wouldn't be in a rush to get a mature key defender.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Who said anything about a Cripps or Petracca? We aren't North you know. We have not had a midfield for a decade, have begun building one but people want a key defender because he is a Saints supporter. If that's not peak Saints I don't know what is.
And who says any pick won't be a wash out?
McCartin, Billings, Coffield, all top ten, all gone, Wilkie, Sinclair both rookies both AA.

Repeating the same mistakes in not selecting 1st round mids, in my view has seen us as also rans since 2010

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

People have got short memories of the season just past, our biggest weakness for almost a decade has been our lack of quality midfielders. Midfielders win finals now more than ever. If there are midfielders rated around the same as other positional players with our first pick/s we should be taking them. After that we go can fill positional needs.

The only reason I can see we wouldnt prioritise midfielders this year, is if the recruiters believe next years crop of mids are far superior. Then it would be reasonable to take a player such as Murphy with our first.

Yes we have Phillipou, Owens, Windhager and possibly Hotton coming through, but Ross, Crouch, Hill, Steele, Wood and Jones are about to fall off a cliff. Every top side has at least 6 x quality players that can rotate through there.

 

[BrutThough]

Probably not in every position.
Full-Back is our immediate need, so would have to be a mature ager from somewhere?
Having picked up Dow & Henry who fill our mid-speed needs, maybe we wait until next year's crop.
And we are still not sure, if Hotton, Owens & Windhager are going to end up fully-fledged midfielders?, which I think we believe, is going to be the case.
And if we believe that the KPD'S & Rucks are going to be good in this draft, then maybe it's the way to go for longer-term investment.
The small to med. forwards seem to be the strength of this draft after pick 10.
And as an e.g, you are never going to malign the drafting of players like Fisher, Gwilt, Hudghton, but in a way it was our downfall, having the shortest key-back line out of anyone at the time.

I dont agree that full-back is an immediate need. We've got 4 on the list who have shown more than enough competency at AFL level which is more than a lot of clubs have. If we believe that a key back is the best available at our pick, we take them and hope they develop into a great player but I dont think we need to be drafting a mature aged one as a huge need.

 

[BrutThough]

I totally agree people have got short memories of the season just past. What has been our biggest weakness for almost a decade, its the lack of a decent midfield. Mifielders win finals now more than ever. If there are midfielders rated around the same as other positional players with our first two picks we should be taking them. After that we go can fill positional needs but not before IMO.

Most of the current rankings don't have midfielders ranked where our picks are predicted to fall which is why the 'best available' approach is favoured by many this year. Would rather take a higher rated prospect to get the best talent possible than reach a bit for a midfielder.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Most of the current rankings don't have midfielders ranked where our picks are predicted to fall which is why the 'best available' approach is favoured by many this year. Would rather take a higher rated prospect to get the best talent possible than reach a bit for a midfielder.

Windsor, DeMattia, C. Edwards, Tholstrup and Hardeman there are more mids/utilities then there are other positional players.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I totally agree people have got short memories of the season just past. What has been our biggest weakness for almost a decade, its the lack of a decent midfield. Mifielders win finals now more than ever. If there are midfielders rated around the same as other positional players with our first two picks we should be taking them. After that we go can fill posotional needs but not before IMO.

We just traded in two mids who are not only ready to go but are young enough to be long term players. We also have a few players already on the list who we all hope can spend more time in the midfield rotation. No one is advocating that we pick 3 talls or ignore midfielders with our 2nd & 3rd picks.

There is simply a discussion on Murphy being an option if the best midfield options when our first selection comes up are mid/fwds (Tholstrup), have come on late & didn't play in the Champs (Edwards) or are small forwards (Collard).

With the value of quality tall defenders these days (look at what McKay got himself & Norf), if you get the chance to draft a kid with the size, skill set and right physical and mental attributes, you strongly consider it. I don't think Murphy has a hope in hell of getting through to our 2nd pick... and the tall defenders that look like they're available later are reported to have some significant limitations.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Windsor, DeMattia, C. Edwards, Tholstrup and Hardeman there are more mids/utilities then there are other positional players.

OK. Tholstrup.
Has played a lot in the forward line , often as an undersize key forward, has rotated through the midfield at times.
Did some really good work in the Colts where he was able to utilise his strength. Didn't perform so well in seniors.

He could be good, but that profile makes me just as nervous as choosing a skinny key defender.

 

[StCicatriz]

OK. Tholstrup.
Has played a lot in the forward line , often as an undersize key forward, has rotated through the midfield at times.
Did some really good work in the Colts where he was able to utilise his strength. Didn't perform so well in seniors.

He could be good, but that profile makes me just as nervous as choosing a skinny key defender.

i dont see where the growth comes from. he's already in good nick in a very professional football club.

 

[BrutThough]

Windsor, DeMattia, C. Edwards, Tholstrup and Hardeman there are more mids/utilities then there are other positional players.

Most ratings have Windsor going before our pick. Hardeman is more of a rebounding defender than mid and Tholstrup would be a considered a half forward who pinch hits in the midfield than an outright mid. Twomey states some clubs dont view DeMattia as a midfielder at the next level and while Edwards is a mid, most rankings have him in-between our 2 picks so it's not a straight forward selection.

 

[MrFoster]

Most ratings have Windsor going before our pick. Hardeman is more of a rebounding defender than mid and Tholstrup would be a considered a half forward who pinch hits in the midfield than an outright mid. Twomey states some clubs dont view DeMattia as a midfielder at the next level and while Edwards is a mid, most rankings have him in-between our 2 picks so it's not a straight forward selection.

Windsor looks like an outside mid/winger.. Not going to help us with our general contested ball winning issue. Whereas Charlie Edwards and Cooper Simpson are both balanced mids and can burst away from stoppages with pace.

We need mids, not more thin key backs that are may become good.. Look at Zach Reid from Essendon, or Grainger Brass from Hawthorn. Actually, apart from Carlton’s Weitering, which other first round key defenders have worked out lately?