Discussion 2023 General AFL Discussion

[stavro#4]

Based on the eye test our midfield is awful. The quality of centre clearances given up, the poor ball movement and the talent level is insufficient. King and Membrey improve this team but we can't shy away from the fact this is a bottom 6 midfield in the competition as it currently stands.
Maybe Chito, Pou and Windy make it better in the future but we can only judge on what we've seen to date.

Which is my point no?

It’s not like you are seeing everything we can offer.

Owens is dominating contested possessions as a key forward.

How does that not improve the midfield?

I’m not saying it makes it an amazing midfield. But it surely makes it better.

 

[MightySaint]

Which is my point no?

It’s not like you are seeing everything we can offer.

Owens is dominating contested possessions as a key forward.

How does that not improve the midfield?

I’m not saying it makes it an amazing midfield. But it surely makes it better.

I guess the point I don't agree with is that the issue is in attack. Or at least that its a bigger issue in attack than in the midfield.
The weekend was a decent illustration of better ball movement (mids and defenders admittedly) equating to scoring. King in particular can rescue poor ball movement but I still don't think this is a good team even with a fully fit King and Membrey.
I'm also not throwing out the baby with the bathwater about this season. IMO this year has been a major step forward because of the players driving the improvement. As long as they continue to target mids in the draft and trade i'll be happy.

 

[gringo2011]

He said we didn't have one class player watch the clip

Sinclair and Steele are A grade quality but we stop at that. Most top sides have 5 to 10 Sinclairs and a star or two. We do lack top end and have since the golden generation finished up. It’s a bit hyperbolic but pretty much true. I’d say Wilkie, Sinclair are our best this year. Then a lot of GOPs and potential. Steele has injuries to excuse his drop off and King can’t develop on the injury list but otherwise they aren’t wrong.

 

[beside the seaside]

I know it’s easy to bag our midfield and talent.

But the issue is in attack - currently the 4th lowest.

The funny thing is that if we had King and Membrey for substantial parts of the year. It’s entirely realistic we have another 20 goals minimum.

Which puts the attack roughly 9/10th in the comp. Ahead of Richmond and the bulldogs.

it’s very hard to say how good or bad we are considering we all want to see Owens as a pure mid and we can’t as of yet.

I think that's spot on. When they say we lack talent I don't really buy that, Owens has already shown he will be a very good clearance mid and the other one they choose to ignore is Wanganeen-Milera who I thought cut up North on the weekend. They could easily have shown some of his highlights.

 

[stavro#4]

I guess the point I don't agree with is that the issue is in attack. Or at least that its a bigger issue in attack than in the midfield.
The weekend was a decent illustration of better ball movement (mids and defenders admittedly) equating to scoring. King in particular can rescue poor ball movement but I still don't think this is a good team even with a fully fit King and Membrey.
I'm also not throwing out the baby with the bathwater about this season. IMO this year has been a major step forward because of the players driving the improvement. As long as they continue to target mids in the draft and trade i'll be happy.

If we finish 6th.

I think it’s really hard to argue that we aren’t a good side - with substantial scope for improvement.

We definitely are not elite. But clearly we are an elite defensive side.

If someone put a survey out and listed every players total availability up until this point in the season to our members or the wider footy community- let’s be honest, I think less then 10% would have had us with 10 wins.

 

[HunterClarksHeadband]

F*ck the media lay it on thick every week. Not one person in the outer AFL world likes or has respect for St Kilda. We are as irrelevant as any team in this comp. Not undeserved but as a supporter its hard to constantly have to hear this pile on week after week by absolute campaigners like Kane Cornes.

 

[Remboy]

F*ck the media lay it on thick every week. Not one person in the outer AFL world likes or has respect for St Kilda. We are as irrelevant as any team in this comp. Not undeserved but as a supporter its hard to constantly have to hear this pile on week after week by absolute campaigners like Kane Cornes.

And this is why we need to take every opportunity to play finals. Even if we go out in week one. The only way to gain respect is to win games and play finals every year. Do that and they would have to move on to someone else.
When was the last time Essendon or Carlton won a final?

 

[MightySaint]

If we finish 6th.

I think it’s really hard to argue that we aren’t a good side - with substantial scope for improvement.

We definitely are not elite. But clearly we are an elite defensive side.

If someone put a survey out and listed every players total availability up until this point in the season to our members or the wider footy community- let’s be honest, I think less then 10% would have had us with 10 wins.

I think it talks more to what the coaching group has achieved than the list itself (but I also don't think we'll finish in the 8).
What shows the lack of quality of the team is that we play up/down to the opposition's standard. It's a classic sign of a well structured team that doesn't have a gear. The lack of really convincing wins says as much. We've buried 2 teams all year, and that was very early on.
I assume starting next year, assuming no injuries, both Pou and Owens will start to spend at least 30% of the game playing mid. That will be the litmus test.

 

[SteeleSaints]

F*ck the media lay it on thick every week. Not one person in the outer AFL world likes or has respect for St Kilda. We are as irrelevant as any team in this comp. Not undeserved but as a supporter its hard to constantly have to hear this pile on week after week by absolute campaigners like Kane Cornes.

The easiest way to correct it is to start playing decent footy again, and knock off the teams we should be beating.

 

[Schwarzes_Goal]

F*ck the media lay it on thick every week. Not one person in the outer AFL world likes or has respect for St Kilda. We are as irrelevant as any team in this comp. Not undeserved but as a supporter its hard to constantly have to hear this pile on week after week by absolute campaigners like Kane Cornes.

Could be a lot worse.
You could see they were setting up the Brett Ratten Revenge angle all week.
Would have been painful if we lost on Sunday.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Cornes* always bags us any chance he gets

EFA

 

[Ads734]

I reckon they're taking a fairly glass half empty approach with us there. There's a reason we are sixth it is because we have the second best defence in the comp. We are in shocking form but played good footy earlier in the year. From any game on the weekend you could pluck out three or four missed tackles or kicks and say "they're not at the standard". I get it that we are ugly to watch but we can't all be Collingwood and you don't get points for being sexy. Just ask recent media darlings Essendon, Geelong and Adelaide who we are all ahead of on the ladder.

I'm excited to see where this group can go with some tweaks to the list, built around the youngsters we've unearthed this year. Most of those guys like Lloyd and Cornes had us bottom four so we must have done something right this year.

Yea look at our contested ball and clearance numbers it’s not as bad as it seems.

 

[Ads734]

Sinclair and Steele are A grade quality but we stop at that. Most top sides have 5 to 10 Sinclairs and a star or two. We do lack top end and have since the golden generation finished up. It’s a bit hyperbolic but pretty much true. I’d say Wilkie, Sinclair are our best this year. Then a lot of GOPs and potential. Steele has injuries to excuse his drop off and King can’t develop on the injury list but otherwise they aren’t wrong.

Honestly owens imo is already there. One on one he’s unstoppable. Arguably Nas will be next up. Obviously he doesn’t count as an up and coming class player … why idk. If he played for the dogs, Sydney Geelong etc he’d get spoken about a lot more.

 

[gringo2011]

Honestly owens imo is already there. One on one he’s unstoppable. Arguably Nas will be next up. Obviously he doesn’t count as an up and coming class player … why idk. If he played for the dogs, Sydney Geelong etc he’d get spoken about a lot more.

I have NAS well ahead on his last month of footy. Owens will be something special by the look of it but NAS is flying and already a top 5 player most weeks. Owens was great early in the season though.

 

[Remboy]

Honestly owens imo is already there. One on one he’s unstoppable. Arguably Nas will be next up. Obviously he doesn’t count as an up and coming class player … why idk. If he played for the dogs, Sydney Geelong etc he’d get spoken about a lot more.

NAS isn't spoken about as up and coming because he's already a gun. He's gone past that.

 

[DougalHoward]

NAS isn't spoken about as up and coming because he's already a gun. He's gone past that.

Nah he flies under the radar somewhat, not talked about by the media at all really

 

[Remboy]

Nah he flies under the radar somewhat, not talked about by the media at all really

Maybe externally, but anyone who has watched our games this year knows where he's at. I think the media trotting out the lack of talent line are just using the same articles they wrote five years ago.

 

[austinnn]

My god we overrate our guns so blindly here lol.

Both players are good, but they are new. They haven't battled personal form drops, oppo attention, media pressure, injury comebacks, etc

Get back to us in 4 years.

Reminds me of a couple of years ago when loads on this board talked about Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

as a top 3 midfielder. I get why Saints fans are talking up Saints players but there seems a distinct lack of perspective sometimes

 

[AirWinmar]

Honestly owens imo is already there. One on one he’s unstoppable. Arguably Nas will be next up. Obviously he doesn’t count as an up and coming class player … why idk. If he played for the dogs, Sydney Geelong etc he’d get spoken about a lot more.

For me Nas is already a jet. He is going to be a serious player, but already killing it of half back

 

[Plugger35]

For me Nas is already a jet. He is going to be a serious player, but already killing it of half back

He has been one of our most consistent players this year and is getting better with each game while a lot of our other players have dropped off.

Thank god we re-signed him until the end of 2025 as he will only get better over the next few years.

 

[Jayman15]

Daniel Hoyne on SEN Sportsday with Kane and Gerard Healy

Since round 8: Gresh is the 302nd rated player in the comp

Case of buyer beware… shocking ball use where Gresh has the 5th least impact with ball in hand.

We’re not adding anything keeping him in the team

 

[StFly]

Just as I finished what I was doing, Appeal Tuesday shenanigans abound!

To the surprise of absolutely no one, when the Power decided to appeal the 2 game as Willie smacked Murphy and Murphy probably deserved it, it went, and went, and went;

Willie: Describes the zen, the mabo, the thought processes of what the eyes saw and what his intention was as it was a push dammit and that man is a snowflake!

The AFL Woods, because we all know they're dicks as suck at golf, countered with a punch, as they have nothing except no u's at this stage of the game, let the players enunciate and just "nah mate, you punched, IGAF if this took 2 hours IMA say you punched 4billion times as the only 2 words I know.

Power then powered on with how the OG tribunal were idiots in grading and examples, which is durr, no shit, and that the AFL rep is embellishing and embarrassing and this needs to be seen with a new light at how Willie is not like those other blokes.

So after that taking maybe an hour with the Powers rep speaking for about 90% of it as legit, the AFL just no u'd and said it had potential to break a jaw, I guess on Murphey it might considering glass, but you know...

Then 1 hr later, Willie got a downgrade as "yeah, it really wasn't as bad as the OG tribunal said and sure Murphy is a flog with a glass jaw but pull the other one" only the Power just weren't successful in stating how it was a footy action and a push and they said yeah was intentional.

And you know what, it was, as Murphy is a snowflake that can give but not take like the bitch he is and sometimes those sorts need a clip to know that you know, you know?

 

[George]

Just as I finished what I was doing, Appeal Tuesday shenanigans abound!

To the surprise of absolutely no one, when the Power decided to appeal the 2 game as Willie smacked Murphy and Murphy probably deserved it, it went, and went, and went;

Willie: Describes the zen, the mabo, the thought processes of what the eyes saw and what his intention was as it was a push dammit and that man is a snowflake!

The AFL Woods, because we all know they're dicks as suck at golf, countered with a punch, as they have nothing except no u's at this stage of the game, let the players enunciate and just "nah mate, you punched, IGAF if this took 2 hours IMA say you punched 4billion times as the only 2 words I know.

Power then powered on with how the OG tribunal were idiots in grading and examples, which is durr, no s**t, and that the AFL rep is embellishing and embarrassing and this needs to be seen with a new light at how Willie is not like those other blokes.

So after that taking maybe an hour with the Powers rep speaking for about 90% of it as legit, the AFL just no u'd and said it had potential to break a jaw, I guess on Murphey it might considering glass, but you know...

Then 1 hr later, Willie got a downgrade as "yeah, it really wasn't as bad as the OG tribunal said and sure Murphy is a flog with a glass jaw but pull the other one" only the Power just weren't successful in stating how it was a footy action and a push and they said yeah was intentional.

And you know what, it was, as Murphy is a snowflake that can give but not take like the bitch he is and sometimes those sorts need a clip to know that you know, you know?

 

[Minga]

Reminds me of a couple of years ago when loads on this board talked about Jack Steele as a top 3 midfielder. I get why Saints fans are talking up Saints players but there seems a distinct lack of perspective sometimes

I mean, IIRC, across the 2020 and 2021 seasons Steele collected the equal most amount of Brownlow vote out of any player in the competition.

He was at his peak a top 5 player, and we were hardly even in contention.

Wasn’t uncommon for neutral fans and media to say the best handful of mids were Bontempilli, Petracca, Neale, Steele and Cripps/Walsh.

Shit changes of course, but Nas is a well respected player already, all it takes is for him to have a big performance in a big game (Friday night or a final or something) and he’ll be a name. Heard a lot of Melbourne supporters singing his praises after we versed them a few rounds back.

As for Owens, I actually think the hype on him is frankly lower than I expected given he’s a genuine change to win the rising star this year. That sort of thing would’ve made us feral I’d have thought, Max only came 3rd in that award.

Above all else tho, most of these awards and stuff are pretty worthless, I agree that the real making of these players will be their consistency of quality performance over the many years they hopefully remain Saints.

 

[True Believer]

Heard a lot of Melbourne supporters singing his praises after we versed them a few rounds back.

Not trying to be a pedant, but we never "versed"" them, there's no such word. We played them..........