List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread - Pt2 Now With Added Wailing & Gnashing of Teeth

[Lore]

Hello Dockers fans!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

 

[Big Animal]

Stoked to have him. Really rated him as a junior.

Edit: Just perused the GC board. Hopefully he doesn’t suck as much as they think.

The 'Meima Board'

 

[freo_leo29]

Mate Sharp aint gonna push Aish out of any position

Fingers crossed he can

Aish already moved back for a bit near the end last year

He clearly isn't working on the wing

 

[Taylor]

Fingers crossed he can

Aish already moved back for a bit near the end last year

He clearly isn't working on the wing

I think you can argue that Liam Henry was out the door and Freo pumping games into him was about getting something more than zero out of a trade when he does.

 

[Tonys_Ronaldsons]

Tick.

Luke McPharlin - East Fremantle + junior 400 champ = perennial mark of the year contender and best backman you've ever seen.

Aaron Sandilands - East Fremantle + weirdly athletic for a FREAKING GIANT = best tap ruckman of the modern era

Luke Jackson - East Fremantle + so fast he hits the switch and gets into bed before the light even knows what to do with itself. Your girlfriend's bed.

I actually don't need facts here. The answer's in the question. Jeremy Sharp, dual under-18s All Australian, East Fremantle wunderkinder who unfortunately also happens to look like freo1997's wet dream - shall we get him in for free?

Longmuir, J doesn't have the same level of difficulty with attractive men that you and Stuey Dew apparently have. He'll take the redhot, steaming raw talent of a bloke who can literally run all day and turn him into just the sort of wing that Carlton will wish they could poach.

i was already firmly in the 'for' column in regards to signing sharp, but geeze this post got me pumped up

 

[ubiquitous226]

Fingers crossed he can

Aish already moved back for a bit near the end last year

He clearly isn't working on the wing

Your take on Aish and the team is very different to mine.

I think Aish brings a lot of versatility, and at his best is pushing the B grade level pretty hard, which is miles in front of where Sharp is coming from.
To be fair I don't think Aish was at his best in 2023, but he's shown he's a reasonable winger and can roll back in defence when required.

 

[Paracleet]

Your take on Aish and the team is very different to mine.

I think Aish brings a lot of versatility, and at his best is pushing the B grade level pretty hard, which is miles in front of where Sharp is coming from.
To be fair I don't think Aish was at his best in 2023, but he's shown he's a reasonable winger and can roll back in defence when required.

All this is true and Sharp is not pushing Aish out of the 22, but equally Aish is not a good Winger. He better off at half back rotating on ball a bit or occasionally as a tagger with the right match up.

 

[Taylor]

I'd trust Aish to play on any line and keep the ball moving towards goal without much fuss.

 

[pK75]

I'd trust Aish to play on any line and keep the ball moving towards goal without much fuss.

Absolutely agree, he’s not the best winger though and as soon as Sharp/NOD/Stanley can cement down the wing role the better we can utilise Aish’s greatest strength which is his flexibility to play inside, outside mid and roll back into defence. He’s a 183cm version of Jackson and shouldn’t be pigeonholed into one position.

 

[ubiquitous226]

All this is true and Sharp is not pushing Aish out of the 22, but equally Aish is not a good Winger. He better off at half back rotating on ball a bit or occasionally as a tagger with the right match up.

I disagree, I think he played some very good games on the wing in 2022, kept his width well and often opened up a bail out option by not being sucked into the play.
He also tracked the other winger well to shut down the equivalent when defending a forward half turnover.

 

[Nickos66]

If we're discussing whether Aish is the one that needs to make way after the season we've had - we're not making progress.

There's a number of names i'd be looking at instead of someone with Aish's versatility and ability to plug a gap where needed.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Aish is really our plug and play anywhere guy. He can play wing, he can play HBF/Pocket, he can play HF or run through the middle. But really you want him on the interchange when you submit the team sheet.

When he's not automatically starting 18 then that's a sign we actually have rebuilt our side a bit. Sharp might be another piece in that.

 

[Docker82]

Aish is really our plug and play anywhere guy. He can play wing, he can play HBF/Pocket, he can play HF or run through the middle. But really you want him on the interchange when you submit the team sheet.

When he's not automatically starting 18 then that's a sign we actually have rebuilt our side a bit. Sharp might be another piece in that.

Perfect player to have from 20 to 22.

Can play HBF, midfield and wing to a decent level. It's better than selecting say an inside mid and playing them wing because we don't have enough wingers in the team. Johnson was probably the only inside mid that actually genuinely looked okay there.

Best mix is probably Johnson and Aish playing wing about 60% of their TOG with a specialist playing the fat side whatever is left. Wouldn't be against Johnson playing more inside, Aish more HBF and Chapman a bit on the wing though.

 

[ubiquitous226]

Perfect player to have from 20 to 22.

Can play HBF, midfield and wing to a decent level. It's better than selecting say an inside mid and playing them wing because we don't have enough wingers in the team. Johnson was probably the only inside mid that actually genuinely looked okay there.

Best mix is probably Johnson and Aish playing wing about 60% of their TOG with a specialist playing the fat side whatever is left. Wouldn't be against Johnson playing more inside, Aish more HBF and Chapman a bit on the wing though.

Yes Aish's versatility is one of his main weapons.
I clearly rate him more than most though, I would have put him 15-20

If I tried to (very) roughly bracket it based on current performance, I'd have something like this;
1 - Serong, Brayshaw, Young, Jackson, Darcy
2 - Cox, Ryan, Amiss, Walters, Switta
3 - Aish, Johnson, Pearce, Clark, O'Meara, Fyfe, Chapman, Frederick
4 - Walker, Sturt, Erasmus, Treacy, Brodie, Wagner
5 - Hughes, O'Driscoll
6 - others who have played AFL
7 - all others

 

[freo_leo29]

Aish is Jack of all trade but master of none

We have a much better utility that can be thrown around the ground


Don't mind him as sub though

 

[Taylor]

Aish is Jack of all trade but master of none

We have a much better utility that can be thrown around the ground


Don't mind him as sub though

I agree that Aish isn't elite particularly anywhere and almost all other options for a role will have something they bring better than him.

But they are comparing a guy who has stats like:
Kick 70
Speed 70
Endurance 70
Power 70
Footy IQ 70
Consistency 70

When they are 40, 100, 50, 30, 40, 20

Might average about the same but the one or two areas they are far better doesn't make up for the bad parts.

Stanley and O'Driscoll are both bigger, faster, more powerful but aren't as dependable as Aish.

I think a team with 16x Aish would grind opposition teams down by being in the right place at the right time and getting the ball moved on with composure. They may not have the exciting moments, but they will win most games.

 

[freo_leo29]

I agree that Aish isn't elite particularly anywhere and almost all other options for a role will have something they bring better than him.

But they are comparing a guy who has stats like:
Kick 70
Speed 70
Endurance 70
Power 70
Footy IQ 70
Consistency 70

When they are 40, 100, 50, 30, 40, 20

Might average about the same but the one or two areas they are far better doesn't make up for the bad parts.

Stanley and O'Driscoll are both bigger, faster, more powerful but aren't as dependable as Aish.

I think a team with 16x Aish would grind opposition teams down by being in the right place at the right time and getting the ball moved on with composure. They may not have the exciting moments, but they will win most games.

Alright I concede I'm not fully opposed to Aish, just get him off the bloody wing, offers nothing there


I prefer Walks in defense but maybe Aish can take Hughes role there or something

 

[Rockmelon]

If two of Noddy, Milky and Sharp can get regular game time I could easily see Aish being the one that makes way and ends up playing at Peel. Similar to Colyer

 

[theGav56]

If two of Noddy, Milky and Sharp can get regular game time I could easily see Aish being the one that makes way and ends up playing at Peel. Similar to Colyer

We are definitely in a list phase where, all things being equal, a bias towards youth should be in place.

I don't think we are in a place where we sacrifice experience simply to get games into the youth.

Incumbency is a challenge that those guys haven't shown enough to overcome, but that's what the new season should be for them to confront.

 

[pK75]

We are definitely in a list phase where, all things being equal, a bias towards youth should be in place.

I don't think we are in a place where we sacrifice experience simply to get games into the youth.

Incumbency is a challenge that those guys haven't shown enough to overcome, but that's what the new season should be for them to confront.

Agreed, only Johnson has shown he can play wing at a consistent level this year, ideally he’d be moving to a permanent inside mid role in the not too distant future, but currently he’s my first choice on a wing. The onus is on NOD/Stanley/Sharp to perform well enough to release Johnson to play more inside minutes until he eventually pushes JOM out of 4th mid role.
Ultimately I see Brayshaw, Serong, Young and Johnson as our awesome foursome inside mid rotation for 5-6 years (with cameos from Jackson, Switowski and Aish to give us a different look) just not sure Young and Johnson are there yet.
Not sure where this leaves Fyfe, JOM and Brodie, I’d be happy to play Fyfe or Brodie as high impact subs, don’t think JOM would suit that role though.

 

[more_of_bito]

It's time for aish to be phased out, Henry back half of the season shows a youngster can produce more on the wing and still have room for growth

Aish can either fight for a lockdown role or be backup/sub


Aish is the type of player we should be pushing out to start contending again


Edit: if he does knock the door down at peel though, then he can come in and play a role but that's an if

You lost me at James Aish should be phased out. The guy is the most unassuming proven A grade player on our list. Sharp should be following this guy around to become even half the player. Aish not making our 22 is brilliant, and will be our premiership side but there’s about 12 other players that would make way. Remember Acres laughing at how he had to help odriscoll keep shape on the wing regularly. Acres is a professional winger, strict in his structure and big bodied epitome of role player. Aish is a professional afl player across each line, JL will put his name in the first 5 on the board when fit every game.

 

[FreoMatt]

Brad Hill 179cm 81kg
Liam Henry 179cm 83kg
.
.
Ed Langdon 182cm 78kg
.
.
.
.
Jeremey Sharp 187cm 81kg
.
.
.
Blake Acres 191cm 86kg


The contested ability should correlate to something there...

Hopefully it goes with height rather than weight at Sharp is listed as 189cm on the AFL website


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Rockmelon]

We are definitely in a list phase where, all things being equal, a bias towards youth should be in place.

I don't think we are in a place where we sacrifice experience simply to get games into the youth.

Incumbency is a challenge that those guys haven't shown enough to overcome, but that's what the new season should be for them to confront.

Agreed, i don't think we should sacrifice experience just to get younger guys some games.

Aish is a solid player for us but sometimes i think he doesn't do enough damage on the field and i think he's one of the weaker links in our best 22

 

[arsesmart]

Agreed, i don't think we should sacrifice experience just to get younger guys some games.

Aish is a solid player for us but sometimes i think he doesn't do enough damage on the field and i think he's one of the weaker links in our best 22

Aish does a lot of smart stuff that probably goes unnoticed a lot of the time. He is frequently in the right spots to either intercept the ball as the opposition is trying to exit their defence, being there to support and/or mop up dangerous situations and handy linkage in transitioning the ball.

 

[theGav56]

Agreed, i don't think we should sacrifice experience just to get younger guys some games.

Aish is a solid player for us but sometimes i think he doesn't do enough damage on the field and i think he's one of the weaker links in our best 22

My underlying opinion is that the majority of issues we had last season were coaching issues. I'm not in the sack-the-coach basket, but I don't have a contract extension on the horizon.

Longmuir has problems all over the ground, but I don't think they are simplisticaly resolved by Sharp IN Aish OUT or Brodie IN JOM OUT kind of solutions. (= something something deckchairs.)

My own never-coached-a-game opinion is we can address most issues by transitioning faster. That's the appeal of Sharp, and I get it.

But in the real world we have the ability to go fast from the backline, and we don't do that. We play a far more measured and risk free game style all the way from defence through to attack.

Sharp isn't the solution to that problem, and Aish isn't the problem.

 

[ubiquitous226]

My underlying opinion is that the majority of issues we had last season were coaching issues. I'm not in the sack-the-coach basket, but I don't have a contract extension on the horizon.

Longmuir has problems all over the ground, but I don't think they are simplisticaly resolved by Sharp IN Aish OUT or Brodie IN JOM OUT kind of solutions. (= something something deckchairs.)

My own never-coached-a-game opinion is we can address most issues by transitioning faster. That's the appeal of Sharp, and I get it.

But in the real world we have the ability to go fast from the backline, and we don't do that. We play a far more measured and risk free game style all the way from defence through to attack.

Sharp isn't the solution to that problem, and Aish isn't the problem.

I personally think it's about going fast at the right time, quite often in games it appear we got stuck repeating the same approach without the spark/leadership on when to change.
I think constantly trying to transition faster can just result in a lot of turnovers, but if you balance the measured approach with pulling the trigger it can be very effective.

The problem for me is moving Young out of the backline removes one of the few who can suddenly shift a move instinctively, and has the dare to try it even if it does backfire sometimes.
Wagner brought a good level of attack, which was extra important because of the Young move.