Autopsy 2023 Rd 13 Another loss. Devoid of headline material

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Didn't watch a second of this miserable iteration of our club.

Dow had 7 possessions at 71% and 3 tackles in 23mins of game time. In a team that barely laid a glove on their opponent in the second half. Could have easily translated to a 21 possession 9 tackle game with 60% game time.

How did the ed Curnow tag go?
 
ctwenty1 said:
* me we have some soft supporters

Yes this is is hard and ugly, but grow some balls. We have to keep working through this s**t because you just drown in it.

The list is a lot better than where we are atm. This season unfortunately is looking done, so let’s start on next year.
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Delusional
 
I actually thought the first half last night was the best we've played, arguably all year. I know it's a very low bar and it was still way off the mark (skills atrocious). As is often the way with Carlton, it's one extreme to another. I've been crying out for more attacking corridor play and an open forward-line... We did it - the forward line was so open that there was literally no one there :grinning: The players, who needed to stop and prop and find a loose player to the side (and there were loose players around), had no idea what to do, hence we had a number of long-distance bombs. Still, it was a step in the right direction. Defensively, we were setup quite well for a while there too.

The second half was all kinds of putrid but also what I've come to expect, so I wasn't emotional about it. I don't get emotional about losing, I just get blown away by how brainless we are - coaches and players. That Voss didn't change things up during the onslaught says a lot. Ridiculous. Boyd should have gone into middle at the very least. For all Voss' faults, our players do a lot of really basic dumb things too - some of that is still on Voss, some of it is on the players.

A brave coach or a coach whose position isn't being questioned, would have subbed Cripps out before the margin became insurmountable imo.

Something that is indisputable is that the onus is on the coach to create an environment that gets the very best out of the players. Hard for Voss to hide from that reality.
 
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4flagsin5yrs said:
Our 'slow' blokes like Cripps and Hewett (and maybe Kennedy too?) are simply not fit.

Walsh too is moving sluggishly.

If it is revealed that Cripps is carrying an injury after repeated reassurances that he's fine, I'll be ropeable.

He is so far off his best form, it's laughable.
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He hasn't played well after limping late in the Wet Toast game.
Fan footy summed it up perfectly "Cripps is carrying something and it's not the Carlton football club".
I am ropeable mate, costing us games and robbing others the chance to prove themselves at AFL level.
 
Bamboo Harvester said:
I honestly have no idea what our game plan is.....
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I'm convinced our approach involves an over dissection of passages of play along the lines of:
  • that play there was an opportunity to take the game on and attack
  • see how we turned the ball over here, we needed to slow down and have composure
  • where's our defensive mindset here, we ran forward and let our men out back
  • we're looking for someone to give it to here but no one's running forward, how are we going to get any nourishment
We're preaching to play on instincts with composure, attack aggressively with a defensive mindset.

Every possession is 18 guys weighing up if this is a scenario to run forward, stay back, take it on or be composed. Each falling into conflicting decisions and lacking synergy as a result.

The real problem about our loss last night - we're going to review it and get after it next week.
 
Stig O'Hara said:
If you’re an opposition coach & you see H getting his footy on the boundary wing, you’d be thinking it’s a pretty easy caper.

No corridor at all, utterly smashed in the middle.

Every single week it happens.

Not happy.
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I think there's been a change since early in the season, Charlie was mostly playing deep and out of the goal square and was leading the Coleman, but since it was flagged On The Couch that maybe we try using him in the Jeremy Carmeron role as he's such a damaging kick and great running athlete he could have more impact there.

Since that change we suddenly can't kick a score and Charlies output on the scoreboard has dropped dramatically. I'm not suggest we just did is because the TV guys said, I think it's just a coincidence in timing, but we really need to get Charlie back inside 50. The targets inside 50 have dramatically shifted to Harry over Charlie and this coincides with our scoring issues.

If it's Charlie inside 50 or H inside 50 I'd take Charlie based on what the stats have shown. Defenders panic when 1v1 with Charlie and give away frees nearly every time. H is so down on confidence his contested marking has gone and he's basically useless inside 50. Much rather him on the wing where he still is a good mark and Charlie inside 50.
 
4flagsin5yrs said:
I'd hazard a guess that all 4, if fit, have more leg speed than a Tom Libba or Tom Mitchell or Ollie Wines (as a few examples)

2 of those 4 clearly ain't fit. Possibly Kennedy too.

And Owies is not slow.
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2 of those 4 are irrelevant in the midfield.speed conversation because they're not being played in the midfield much if at all. Kennedy saw some more CBA time than previous weeks but it's still mainly just Cripps with the 'speed' problem. But he has a lot of problems atm.
windows1 said:
Pace. We are as slow as *.
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Liba makes plenty of tackles.

Tackles are a measure of starting position, anticipation and effort. One or multiple of those are ****ed
 
Blue1980 said:
It didn’t change, it was a repeat of the season so far.

We score 40-50 points a game with the most dysfunctional forward line possibly ever.
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All starts in the midfield imo we had an AFL standard midfield last year for a good part .
First time throughout the whole rebuild now we are back to being sub standard AFL in that area once again .
It's crippling transition and causing us to go to Charlie +Harry too often mainly by bombing it on their heads and making us oh so predictable.
Cripps is well down Kennedy + Walsh ineffective for the most part .
Voss seems clueless in how to get us going again in this area .
Until we can not much will change .
 
It’s as bad as we have been in 25 years…the only thing keeping us in games is the raw talent on the field.

We have no direction and the players who have already checked out are bringing the rest down

TDK is a headless chook, Cripps is done…checked out, Doc is obviously one in the sack Voss camp.

Young is bereft of confidence and needs to be re tooled as a ruck in the 2s.

Kemp, Gov, Wieters should be the key backs with JSOS down there also

I was so guttered watching the 3rd quarter from the stands….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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I'm really hurting at the moment.

Went to the game last night and was sure we would lose before the ball was even bounced (predicted a 36 point loss - so only 2 points off).

All year we have been poor. Even when we were winning, the game style/plan has been devastatingly bad. Early on in the year, we were in games just because of the effort that the players were putting in - i.e. as individuals they were trying but the game plan they were playing wasn't working. Tackling and pressure were all we had. I remember going to those early games and seeing individual players that do have flair and skill (e.g. Fisher - but he is not the only one) making play and getting to good positions but almost always being ignored - and then when we make an inevitable mistake because we have kicked/handballed to a player in a worse position, that player who was in a good position is now hopelessly in the wrong spot and looks slow and out of place because they are just chasing an opponent. How to kill innovation and flair and teamwork. (and no wonder a player like Fisher ended up in the VFL and looks disinterested - his skills are no longer seen as an asset). In a general sense, the game style/plan was encouraging players to play for themselves and not for the team. Why lead? Why run? Why play an offensive game if that is only going to expose you and make you look bad. Last night was just an inevitable consequence of that game style - we aren't even tackling now and so the only part of the game that we were doing OK in has now also crumbled. And when this happens even players with good skills are seen making basic skill errors.

Contrary to many on here, I think we do have the players but the game style we are requiring them to play has taken all enjoyment out of their play and they are second guessing themselves.

Why do we not have a forward line that can ensure one player is always playing closer to goal so that in the event that we win the ball and go forward we do have an option? Too often we will have all 18 players down in the defensive half (and even all within the opposition's 50m arc).

Why is the first option (and second and third and fourth option) to almost always go down the southern side wing - and as close to the boundary as possible?

Why do we always seem to kick to contests - the more contested the better - especially in the forward line even when there are alternatives?

Why do we so regularly mark and then wait for an eternity before playing on? We seem to be waiting for the opposition to get their act together before we kick just so we can give them a better chance at defending our forward play. Only Charlie seems to get the need to play on quick (it doesn't always come off but at least the intent is there).

How can we let a player like 2 metre Peter mark uncontested so consistently? The zone defense isn't working when that happens. My goodness, if the Essendon defense had left Charlie and Harry alone like that they would have kicked 20 between them (and a club record number of behinds). And don't blame Young for everything - he was a world beater last year. It seems to be an infectious dose of lack of confidence that has been going around the club.

I had high hopes for Voss as our coach and everything was looking good early on. Even earlier this year you could see that the players were still working hard but the effort in the last 6 weeks would indicate that, for whatever reason, the coach is not effective and the game style has become totally inept. We are now so bad that I think even 16th on the ladder will flatter our performances. And this with a playing group that I still rate as better collectively than any we have had in the last couple of decades.

And what about integrity in the selection process? For example, Dow (who is not everyone's favourite player) has been busting a gut in the VFL all year but can't get a full game (or sequence of games) in what is, this year, the weakest midfield in the competition. Even with his shortcomings, he is going to be better than who we have there at the moment. Surely, he has deserved a better go? Also, a young player like Binns has been playing well enough in the VFL to get some game time at AFL ahead of some of the players we have chosen.
 

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Watch the game last night live
First 5 mins clearly seen Lewis young was going to be no match for wright
This doesn’t get changed till almost 3qtr time.
First 10 mins of qtr we had to have 5 long shots from 50 metres out cause we did not identify we just needed one forward to hold position one out inside 50 and we would of nailed goals.
Adam Cerra doesn’t start in the middle pitch hit rarely in the first 2.5 qtrs and we get smack in clearences.
Sam docherty should of went straight backline on Zac Merrett in the 3rd qtr when Merrett played up there. Doctor is a HB that can pitch hit in the middle when we need something . Not a high half forward or wing.
Sam Walsh is a mid can play partly wing . No point playing him and docherty the same role high half forward.
We overuse the football with hands win the ball handball back door / then side ways then back then another one way we are handballing from stoppage and spreading to slow. The way we are winning the football and using it is allowing the opposition to work across, get back and get numbers in around Charlie and Harry. It just wasn’t working carry the football forwards with a bit of speed stop going back and sideways and allowing the opposition time to get back.
The big stuff skill error and basic football smarts and fundamentals are terrible. Forward line are way to close to eachother no proper separation or set up . No one holding deep or isolation going on. Kicking to packs , kicking to contest . So frustrating to watch them kick inside 50 to Matt OWIES one on two when he is a midget .and you have Mckay over the top.
Why does owies sit 10 metres in front of Mckay and sit in his space and lead up at the football and we kick to him.
That’s not his job and it happened multiple times . When Mckay was over the top one on one. The big forward should be getting the space and kick to with owies coming in on the 45 front and centre and crumbing not blocking space and being the lead up target. It’s so frustrating and it kept happening. We need a huge change up that’s for sure . We are a shocking ball use side at the moment
Should of been 5 goals up at half time what the hell is wrong with our goal kicking !!!!
 
jimsta10 said:
the days of heading to port melbourne and jumping into the ocean after a loss are over. these blokes will be sipping on lattes today, doing their podcasts and posting s**t on insta.

these guys don't know what battle scars really are let alone appreciate the word rivalry.

it a numbers game. build the hype, fill the seats and worry about the next week. something is seriously broken and a pivot is inevitable now.
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This will be ending a lot of careers how they are going, so I don’t think it’s that they don’t care.
 
Vamos Juddamente said:
At the start of the year I convinced my 14 year old to get back into the footy. He used to be obsessed with the Blues but they just burned him so he totally moved to soccer.

He was getting into it but as the weeks rolled on all those painful feelings came flooding back and now he has zero interest again. It is just sad that this club is so broken that a lot of us will not have the joy of going to the football with our kids when we are older.

To be honest I am starting to hate the game as well now.
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Add to just the losses, the way we play is so deflating and devoid of hope. We can’t rattle on any goals in a row, 2 in a quarter is where we max out.

We haven’t scored more than 59 in any of the last 5 matches, and there is no way we should be this bad. Add to the refusal to change anything, it’s just a cluster ****.
 
demondavey said:
Question.

Is it Voss that is contributing to this or is it the players just not having a good enough crack? There doesn’t seem to be much in terms of on field leadership, which is what is needed. Basically nobody has played in a final. You’ve extracted everything from Cripps and it can’t just be him getting the heat anymore.

I feel things could change very quickly with a tweak or two, just not sure how they find it.
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Answer: it’s both

Solution: sack Voss after losing to GC 5.15 to 12.9, and then begin sifting through the list to see who can and can’t be around next year. Then clean out of white Anters and those who don’t want to be there end of the season.
 
branedotorg said:
The players designed the system, working with the coaching group.

I don't think Voss is entirely at fault, I put more on the senior players but I think he has to go, something has to give and it's hard to sack a player with a long contract.
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He goes as well as many of the players and other off field changes.
 
Midfield pantsed in the third, inaccurate set shot for goal resulting in no scoreboard pressure early in the game.

We have two and a half forwards including Owies, Motlop virtually unsighted in dangerous positions, Martin sighted for about ten minutes.

Cripps and Walsh with no effective impact on the game (Wouldn’t have a problem flicking these two out of the team at the moment but wont happen obviously).

While the desire to speed up play was obvious execution pretty much destroyed any gains they may have got from it.

Hey Tim Clarke, give Paddy ****ing Dow a full game ffs and I would love to hear from anyone who could tell me how playing him would make us worse at this point.
 
Blue1980 said:
Answer: it’s both

Solution: sack Voss after losing to GC 5.15 to 12.9, and then begin sifting through the list to see who can and can’t be around next year. Then clean out of white Anters and those who don’t want to be there end of the season.
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You wouldn't sack him mid season, history says we will start winning not make finals and worsen our draft hand.
 
Blue since 72 said:
Midfield pantsed in the third, inaccurate set shot for goal resulting in no scoreboard pressure early in the game.

We have two and a half forwards including Owies, Motlop virtually unsighted in dangerous positions, Martin sighted for about ten minutes.

Cripps and Walsh with no effective impact on the game (Wouldn’t have a problem flicking these two out of the team at the moment but wont happen obviously).

While the desire to speed up play was obvious execution pretty much destroyed any gains they may have got from it.

Hey Tim Clarke, give Paddy ******* Dow a full game ffs and I would love to hear from anyone who could tell me how playing him would make us worse at this point.
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Apparently Dow doesn't tackle...oh wait
 
We're not brave enough to do it but I'm on the drop Cripps train finally.

Whether he's injured or badly out of form, either way, needs a rest.

Our midfield will be be more dynamic without him right now.
 
Blue since 72 said:
Midfield pantsed in the third, inaccurate set shot for goal resulting in no scoreboard pressure early in the game.

We have two and a half forwards including Owies, Motlop virtually unsighted in dangerous positions, Martin sighted for about ten minutes.

Cripps and Walsh with no effective impact on the game (Wouldn’t have a problem flicking these two out of the team at the moment but wont happen obviously).

While the desire to speed up play was obvious execution pretty much destroyed any gains they may have got from it.

Hey Tim Clarke, give Paddy ******* Dow a full game ffs and I would love to hear from anyone who could tell me how playing him would make us worse at this point.
Click to expand...

Tim Clarke is about as useful as Johnny Barker as an assistant coach.
 

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Autopsy 2023 Rd 13 Another loss. Devoid of headline material

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