Autopsy 2024 Rd 8 Disappointing loss for Blues

[gab213]

The same people that keep boasting about a Premlin Finals as success also think losing is okay

Different people have different goals and definitions of success

I have also not seen or read anyone say they want to burn their memberships

From my perspective we are close but there are some obvious issues we need to address

There was at least one who posted that they had already cancelled their memberships after the game I find it best to let most of what people say directly after a loss pass.

I hate losing games and hate losing to Collingwood even more but realistically we have to accept that you will always lose a few games along the way as unpalatable as it is at the time.

At the end of the day the only measure of success to me is winning the GF, the few times that I have experienced losing one I hated it when people said, 'at least you played in one'. Nah, that's no consolation, if you are in a GF you have to win it, the chances to win one don't come around all that often. Nobody should be celebrating being second best. If you lose a Prelim I view it as a missed opportunity, certainly not a measure of success. I hated it in 2011 when so many of our supporters were saying we had a successful year, 'we almost made a prelim', that's not a winning mentality.

 

[gab213]

Agree with that - except that a win would not have negated the negatives being commented on - allowing Collingwood to strangle the ball as much as they did - should not have been possible or allowed.

Generally speaking, we as supporters, overlook the negatives when we win, pretty sure that's not what happens at the club. The review process would be the same, win or lose, identify what we did right and what we did wrong.

 

[DirtyLeeds]

This is usually when I get in trouble for calling out a "bambi" poster, BUT we lost by a goal in the last minute of the game, AND were robbed of an obvious deliberate out of bounds from the other Bambi, and yet Vossie was out coached, nay 'owned' by Fly, Charlie is lazy, TDK couldn't be bothered, and Bam Bam was the difference but he was sub.....
60 seconds people, and it took a truly magnificent goal to do it to boot!!
Sure there were some flaws exposed over the last couple of weeks; we really are missing Saad, McGov, Fog and Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

, and had they played across this stretch we'd have won them all and be sitting a top of the table.
That's what Al Pacino meant by inches....

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

The wins and losses are a side issue, we've been very fortunate to beat Lions, Tigers, Freo and unlucky to lose against Crows and Pies.
We have a top 4 contending list that is 'thereabouts'', but still under performing. It's a coaching/tactical issue, can't rely entirely on good fortune to win a flag

 

[gab213]

The wins and losses are a side issue, we've been very fortunate to beat Lions, Tigers, Freo and unlucky to lose against Crows and Pies.
We have a top 4 contending list that is 'thereabouts'', but still under performing. It's a coaching/tactical issue, can't rely entirely on good fortune to win a flag

It's also a personnel issue at the moment which throws all of our structures out.

 

[Y Goat]

I'm only replying to your post as it's the last one. There have been a number of comments on speed around the contest, with arguments for both sides.

What I would ask is, which team would have won the game if you swapped Nick Daicos with Hewett? They both win the ball, they both have good hands, they are both good kicks off either foot, they both had the ball more than 30 times. Why did one of them have such an influence on winning the game and the other was a battler?

At those continuous stoppages on their HFF towards the end, who did we have to run on to the ball and outsprint their opponent if it was knocked forward of the pack? We just don't have the right balance in the middle to match the best sides. This is not a criticism of Hewett personally, it is as a component of our midfield whole. It's why Kennedy wasn't in the 22.

We can get away with at times and you get the usual comments from those who think it isn't an issue. It is absolutely an issue and it is worse when some blokes play sore, which is more likely off shorter breaks.

We are very close to being a premiership side and in IMO desperately need 2 things. A replacement for the insipid, bumbling, ponderous 200cm of incompetence that meanders around our backline, and a mid with elite burst speed.

Yes. And, surely if Hewett had been a dedicated hard tag on N. Daicos we win that game. Bit of hindsight factor here, but to me, with JDG & Mitchell out that was the main remaining strength to target

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Do something different - send Cripps up forward - start the on ballers closer to the centre circle for ball ups - tell the in ballers to rough there opponents and block there run to the ball - anything, don’t think do!!!!!

1000000%

Put Boyd on Daicos when he goes into the centre. Even Cincotta FFS

Put Boyd on Elliott for a while and give Williams some time up forward with Cotterel looking after Hill for a few minutes

DONT BE SO ****** PREDICTABLE VOSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheReal99prelim]

This is usually when I get in trouble for calling out a "bambi" poster, BUT we lost by a goal in the last minute of the game, AND were robbed of an obvious deliberate out of bounds from the other Bambi, and yet Vossie was out coached, nay 'owned' by Fly, Charlie is lazy, TDK couldn't be bothered, and Bam Bam was the difference but he was sub.....
60 seconds people, and it took a truly magnificent goal to do it to boot!!
Sure there were some flaws exposed over the last couple of weeks; we really are missing Saad, McGov, Fog and Jack Martin, and had they played across this stretch we'd have won them all and be sitting a top of the table.
That's what Al Pacino meant by inches....

The Adelaide loss will haunt us all year...Marvel Stadium FFS

Losing to Geel and Coll by narrow margins would be more palatable if we had the right mindset FROM THE START against Adelaide, not just the last 3 minutes

 

[DirtyLeeds]

The Adelaide loss will haunt us all year...Marvel Stadium FFS

Losing to Geel and Coll by narrow margins would be more palatable if we had the right mindset FROM THE START against Adelaide, not just the last 3 minutes

With all respect it had more to do with losing Saad and McGov 'in game' that impacted the result rather than a 'mindset' (which wouldn't be a bad thing if you described it). That result really came down to two moments, 1/ Owies brain fade dribble kick, and 2/ Kemp and Williams inability to get out of each other's way in the back pocket. That's where we lost that game.
An abysmal first quarter is where we lost the Geelong game.
An inability to stop Nacois in the last minute at a stoppage in which we won but fumbled, cost us Friday night.
Games of "moments"

 

[perro_loco]

I come in peace as a really cheesed off Dogs supporter due to our poor game against the Hawks today. What I would like to say, is that Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

33

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

is a really unlucky footballer. When he was with us he had a shocker of a coach in McCartney. He moved to you guys and became a top defender thanks to one of your rebuilding coaches. he stopped playing during Covid and came to the Dogs. He came back to us and he is a great defender but in a poorly coached team with a terrible structure. No way you guys lose against Collingwood on Friday if Jones was in. Such a good defender Jones is thanks to the good coaching at Carlton. Footy is a cruel game, because he deserves a flag. And what makes me sad for him, is that I think you guys will win it this year. Just unlucky on Friday but you won't lose to the Pies again in a final. Your side is travelling great. I am just sad for Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

33

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

. Footy is a tough game, I guess. That is all I want to say. Good luck for the rest of the season. Hope I did not offend anyone. Just in case.

 

[blues4flag]

It's interesting the dichotomy of coaching.

Vs Fremantle he held the line and backed in our system and didn't change majorly to adapt to what they were doing and eventually We wrestled the game back in our favour. He was praised then for being brave enough to back in our system eventually leading to the win.

Against Collingwood he does the same and we lose to a goal on the siren essentially, so this time backing in the system is poor coaching.

2 games, same philosophy and approach, but different results means different perceptions of coaching ability.

We as supporters love to focus on the wins and losses, but the requirements of a professional outfit is to put that to one side, determine what's working and what isn't and go to work accordingly.

One of my biggest pet peeves is letting the result determine the response. Criticism after a win is seen as whinging, optimism after a loss is seen as accepting mediocrity. All we can be is be reinforce what's working and go to work on what's not.

Not interested in the emotional response. I view it through the lens of, what would I do it I were coach? Through that lens, ignoring the warning signs is a failure to do the job, and overrracting to losses, condemning individuals is pointless.

Fremantle was an interesting one. Clear that the Dockers were incredibly conservative and refused to kick to a contest. If squandered numerous opportunities by continuing to be conservative even when they were out at half forward. We adjusted during the game to deny them the short kick and turn it into more of a contest.

Geelong last week was almost the exact opposite of the Collingwood game. That was one we absolutely should have won but for bad accuracy and poor positioning to defend their transition. The reaction of a coach who knew we were the better side but let one go through lack of defensive intent.

The Collingwood game, they dominated us in the same way we dominated Geelong. The scoreboard failed to reflect that dominance as it didn't last week, but they were good enough to win regardless.

We were the better side on paper but Macrae came in with a plan and the players executed perfectly after quarter time. The game played out almost identically to the round 10 game last year. We failed to respond to their extra numbers at the contest. The instruction from the coaches to stop overpossessing and take the game on by trying to burst out of the contest didn't work.

We were hampered by personnel to down back to break through their press, but at the game I felt we were incredibly stagnant regardless and resigned ourselves to playing into Collingwood's hands. Players were standing still waiting for the long ball, and only a few times did we try to switch it to the fat side (often through Young, who's inability to move it on quickly have the Pies ample time to reset their press).

We know how we want to play the game. Control territory and lock the game in our front half. -26 inside 50s, -14 inside 50 tackles is all we need to know. On exposed form this season, it was an anomaly, and one probably brought on by over indexing on defence throughout the week. My irrational fear is that we endure another spell like we did last year where we played without any dare, but right now it's a one off.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It's also a personnel issue at the moment which throws all of our structures out.

How many did we have missing during our winning streak last year when we beat top 4 sides Port Adelaide, Collingwood and Melbourne?

Can't keep throwing out injury excuses, it's getting lame. We were worse off last year. The biggest issue is intent and attitude. That drop in pressure in the second quarter wasn't because Saad + Gov were missing that's a joke... was clearly because the intent and attitude was well below what we are capable of bringing.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Many moments or aspects that we can dissect that work well and those that don't. This week was different to previous games

I thought our intensity and pressure was subpar, compared to the Pies

That difference, played out with how clean they were with more time to assess options, an area we struggled with and our composure was poor

That's an easy fix if the players as a collective have better buy-in this week

As for Voss, I admire that he is sticking fat in trying to evolve our gameplan, but it's a fine line if you can't blend the finished product and continue to have a foot in each camp

Everyone is aware that our strength is being brutal at the stoppage, but the turnover game is more sustainable

The poor effort is a bad sign. Premiership sides don't compromise on pressure and intensity. Gameplan will not deliver if he have pressure Qtrs like the 2nd against the Pies. The low pressure levels followed the poor defensive effort against the Cats and the nonchalence against Adelaide.

 

[Azzurro]

There was at least one who posted that they had already cancelled their memberships after the game I find it best to let most of what people say directly after a loss pass.

I hate losing games and hate losing to Collingwood even more but realistically we have to accept that you will always lose a few games along the way as unpalatable as it is at the time.

At the end of the day the only measure of success to me is winning the GF, the few times that I have experienced losing one I hated it when people said, 'at least you played in one'. Nah, that's no consolation, if you are in a GF you have to win it, the chances to win one don't come around all that often. Nobody should be celebrating being second best. If you lose a Prelim I view it as a missed opportunity, certainly not a measure of success. I hated it in 2011 when so many of our supporters were saying we had a successful year, 'we almost made a prelim', that's not a winning mentality.

I keep reading this "winning mentality" commentary and I don't get it. I've been involved in successful teams - I've won premierships and lost them. Been part of ruthless crushing teams, humble world beaters, and downright strugglers. Each team has won and lost incredible games, been relevant in seasons we weren't expected to be, lost when we were the favourites etc. Sport is both art and science.

Just because you look at winning and losing a particular way, doesn't make anyone else's perspective wrong or unsuccessful.

I'm a deeply competitive bugger, but it's more an internal thing for me. It's amazing how often my teams' best work on the day was done by the least outwardly competitive people.

2011 was a great season. So was last year. But we didn't build from 2011 and make ourselves a consistent premiership threat. That lack of long term sustainable performance is the main problem - the issue is definitely not people embracing our club finally being relevant during that finals series. Seasons like that should absolutely be celebrated, but with balance and perspective to make sure the collective aim is to clinch the ultimate prize off the back of the pain.

 

[gab213]

How many did we have missing during our winning streak last year when we beat top 4 sides Port Adelaide, Collingwood and Melbourne?

Can't keep throwing out injury excuses, it's getting lame. We were worse off last year. The biggest issue is intent and attitude. That drop in pressure in the second quarter wasn't because Saad + Gov were missing that's a joke... was clearly because the intent and attitude was well below what we are capable of bringing.

Too many injuries to key players at the same time is part of the reason that performance levels drop, a lack of cohesion in the backline has affected us badly, I'm not talking excuses, I'm giving you reasons.

Round 21 last year with all of our injuries, the backline was missing one player, McGovern, most of the others were midfielders and forwards who we managed to cover, SOS was gone but then he hasn't appeared at all this year, Harry missed some games, we were also missing cerra and walsh. The impact on our defence was minimal, that has been a big problem this year, plus you had players such as Doc, Martin and Cunningham in that team playing well.

I'd suggest that our injuries this year have had more of a structural impact and have been harder to cover.

B: B.Kemp, J.Weitering, N.Newman

HB: A.Cincotta, C.Marchbank, A.Saad

C: S.Docherty, P.Cripps - C, O.Hollands


HF: J.Martin, C.Curnow, Z.Fisher

F: J.Motlop, M.Pittonet, M.Owies

FOLL: T.De Koning, G.Hewett, P.Dow

I/C: D.Cuningham, L.Fogarty, B.Acres, M.Cottrell

IN: Z.Fisher

OUT: A.Cerra (Injured), M.McGovern (Injured)

 

[gab213]

I keep reading this "winning mentality" commentary and I don't get it. I've been involved in successful teams - I've won premierships and lost them. Been part of ruthless crushing teams, humble world beaters, and downright strugglers. Each team has won and lost incredible games, been relevant in seasons we weren't expected to be, lost when we were the favourites etc. Sport is both art and science.

Just because you look at winning and losing a particular way, doesn't make anyone else's perspective wrong or unsuccessful.

I'm a deeply competitive bugger, but it's more an internal thing for me. It's amazing how often my teams' best work on the day was done by the least outwardly competitive people.

2011 was a great season. So was last year. But we didn't build from 2011 and make ourselves a consistent premiership threat. That lack of long term sustainable performance is the main problem - the issue is definitely not people embracing our club finally being relevant during that finals series. Seasons like that should absolutely be celebrated, but with balance and perspective to make sure the collective aim is to clinch the ultimate prize off the back of the pain.

Last year was great in comparison to what had gone before it for 20 years but ultimately it wasn't successful. If you are satisfied with that then you won't go any further. I consider last year to be a stepping stone towards something better.

I'm sorry but I don't consider 2011 to have been a great year, it was reasonable, and that's about it.
In the context of where we'd been for 10 years at that stage maybe people thought it was great but in the grand scheme of things I consider 5th to be fairly ordinary, I wouldn't celebrate it other than possibly being a sign of improvement.

 

[blueycarlton]

I come in peace as a really cheesed off Dogs supporter due to our poor game against the Hawks today. What I would like to say, is that Liam Jones is a really unlucky footballer. When he was with us he had a shocker of a coach in McCartney. He moved to you guys and became a top defender thanks to one of your rebuilding coaches. he stopped playing during Covid and came to the Dogs. He came back to us and he is a great defender but in a poorly coached team with a terrible structure. No way you guys lose against Collingwood on Friday if Jones was in. Such a good defender Jones is thanks to the good coaching at Carlton. Footy is a cruel game, because he deserves a flag. And what makes me sad for him, is that I think you guys will win it this year. Just unlucky on Friday but you won't lose to the Pies again in a final. Your side is travelling great. I am just sad for Liam Jones. Footy is a tough game, I guess. That is all I want to say. Good luck for the rest of the season. Hope I did not offend anyone. Just in case.

I was very worried when Jones left the Blues. But Lewis Young comes in from the Dogs and plays very well. We covered the loss of Jones. However Young's first year (at the Blues) confidence has disappeared somewhat and is now struggling. He has his good moments but is not as consistent as in his first year. Having both McGovern, and Marchbank unavailable, means Young probably has to do too much. Hopefully both of these players return next week and if Young retains a place in the team then his confidence might return.
I remember seeing Jones playing at Victoria Park in the Carlton reserves when he was switched to the back line, he took to it like a duck to water, he didn't look back. Good luck to your Dogs.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Too many injuries to key players at the same time is part of the reason that performance levels drop, a lack of cohesion in the backline has affected us badly, I'm not talking excuses, I'm giving you reasons.

Round 21 last year with all of our injuries, the backline was missing one player, McGovern, most of the others were midfielders and forwards who we managed to cover, SOS was gone but then he hasn't appeared at all this year, Harry missed some games, we were also missing cerra and walsh. The impact on our defence was minimal, that has been a big problem this year, plus you had players such as Doc, Martin and Cunningham in that team playing well.

I'd suggest that our injuries this year have had more of a structural impact and have been harder to cover.

B: B.Kemp, J.Weitering, N.Newman

HB: A.Cincotta, C.Marchbank, A.Saad

C: S.Docherty, P.Cripps - C, O.Hollands


HF: J.Martin, C.Curnow, Z.Fisher

F: J.Motlop, M.Pittonet, M.Owies

FOLL: T.De Koning, G.Hewett, P.Dow

I/C: D.Cuningham, L.Fogarty, B.Acres, M.Cottrell

IN: Z.Fisher

OUT: A.Cerra (Injured), M.McGovern (Injured)

I wasn't just talking about rd 21... we played St Kilda in that round...

We had: Silvagni, McGovern, Doc, Walsh, Williams, Harry, Cerra, Kennedy and Boyd all out throughout that period where we played multiple top 4 teams and won all those games....

An excuse, by definition, is a reason to justify a fault...

There's absolutely no doubt that had we lost those games last year people would have been blowing that injury excuse horn loud and clear.

There's just no justification for that now. This team has shown that they have the system in place to cover for significant outs. As depleted as we are in our backline, we had a pretty much full strength midfield and we had Harry out there as well. And, when you really examine the game, for 64 i50 we only conceded 12 goals... we conceded 18 from 45 the week prior against the Cats. Have a look at what the real flaw is there between the two games, conceded 20 more i50's and that doesn't come from not having Gov + Saad out there... and they're not going to solve for 54 tackles to Collingwood's 88...team defence was really poor which was outlined by our real lack of pressure.

The difference between now and last year is the intent and the attitude. Like I said, can't blame that lack of team pressure in the second quarter and the majority of the game for that matter on the outs we had.

Getting players back will certainly help, but it won't solve the root cause of our issues. Players need to buy in again and work harder to apply that pressure.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Here's a crazy fact, not sure if anyone has brought this up yet...

But the last time we have beat them when it is our home game, was way back in 2012 when we thumped them by 10 goals.

We really need to belt them in a home final this year, heck waiting till 2025.

 

[Selene9]

Thought he was decent, fantastic is a stretch.

Unfortunately he is injury prone and misses too many games and when he plays his form is erratic.

 

[Selene9]

Not sure playing Kennedy as a sub was the right way to go, one of our better users of the ball with footy nous would’ve been handy in the first 3 quarters.

Fantasia or Durdin who have little to no impact on the forward line would have been better options for sub.

Fantasia should have been sub as he missed against Geeling due to illness.Matt Kennedy is an excellent chest and overhead mark,tackles strongly and can kick goals!!

 

[carlton_99]

There's just no justification for that now. This team has shown that they have the system in place to cover for significant outs. As depleted as we are in our backline, we had a pretty much full strength midfield and we had Harry out there as well. And, when you really examine the game, for 64 i50 we only conceded 12 goals... we conceded 18 from 45 the week prior against the Cats. Have a look at what the real flaw is there between the two games, conceded 20 more i50's and that doesn't come from not having Gov + Saad out there... and they're not going to solve for 54 tackles to Collingwood's 88...team defence was really poor which was outlined by our real lack of pressure.

Tackling and pressure definitely should be there regardless of personnel and for the most part we have been good in that area this year ranking 3rd in tackles and 1st in tackles i50 in the comp. Although we held up fairly well defensively against Collingwood we were giving up a lot of i50s. And that wasn't because we were getting smashed in the middle but because we couldn't exit D50 effectively. Our ball movement was so poor from D50 that it would just be a long kick to the wing and then it would come back and same thing happened over and over again.

This is where the Saad/McGovern losses are felt imo. Because it is not just their defensive work but also their creativity, run and kicking ability which unlock scoring chains from HB. Saad being able to take a more defensive assignment also unlocks Williams to be more attacking which suits him far more. And then when you consider the replacements like Young the drop off in the ability to move the ball out of D50 is very significant.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Tackling and pressure definitely should be there regardless of personnel and for the most part we have been good in that area this year ranking 3rd in tackles and 1st in tackles i50 in the comp. Although we held up fairly well defensively against Collingwood we were giving up a lot of i50s. And that wasn't because we were getting smashed in the middle but because we couldn't exit D50 effectively. Our ball movement was so poor from D50 that it would just be a long kick to the wing and then it would come back and same thing happened over and over again.

This is where the Saad/McGovern losses are felt imo. Because it is not just their defensive work but also their creativity, run and kicking ability which unlock scoring chains from HB. Saad being able to take a more defensive assignment also unlocks Williams to be more attacking which suits him far more. And then when you consider the replacements like Young the drop off in the ability to move the ball out of D50 is very significant.

Last year we were missing Harry and Walsh and Cerra went off at half time as bog. Surely if we're given the choice of Gov + Saad + Martin or Harry + Walsh + Cerra 99% of people are taking the latter trio...

It was a team mindset. Players were stagnant and not willing to move the ball quickly. Saad + Gov for sure would provide in this area, but again... the long ball up the wing was a result of no movement and players not willing to take the game on. Both Saad + Gov were not there against the Cats and we had no such problem getting the ball i50...

100% the midfield getting smashed played a significant part in the amount of i50's we conceded. That ball up the wing should not be getting sent back as often as it was if the midfield wasn't as poor as they were. George Hewett taking a million years to make up his mind and kept getting his pants pulled down... Cottrell running up and down the ground like an umpire, Walsh not doing anything damaging, Cripps well held (both literally and metaphorically), Pittonet takes 1 mark, TDK tries to kick to Walsh surrounded by 4 Pies players.. come on...

Yes, this year so far our tackling and pressure has been great (I have pointed this out many times) but the Collingwood game it was garbage and hopefully not a sign of things to come with this group falling back into bad habits...

 

[carlton_99]

Last year we were missing Harry and Walsh and Cerra went off at half time as bog. Surely if we're given the choice of Gov + Saad + Martin or Harry + Walsh + Cerra 99% of people are taking the latter trio...

It was a team mindset. Players were stagnant and not willing to move the ball quickly. Saad + Gov for sure would provide in this area, but again... the long ball up the wing was a result of no movement and players not willing to take the game on. Both Saad + Gov were not there against the Cats and we had no such problem getting the ball i50...

100% the midfield getting smashed played a significant part in the amount of i50's we conceded. That ball up the wing should not be getting sent back as often as it was if the midfield wasn't as poor as they were. George Hewett taking a million years to make up his mind and kept getting his pants pulled down... Cottrell running up and down the ground like an umpire, Walsh not doing anything damaging, Cripps well held (both literally and metaphorically), Pittonet takes 1 mark, TDK tries to kick to Walsh surrounded by 4 Pies players.. come on...

Yes, this year so far our tackling and pressure has been great (I have pointed this out many times) but the Collingwood game it was garbage and hopefully not a sign of things to come with this group falling back into bad habits...

I'm not defending the performance against the Pies I just think our biggest issue was ball movement out of the back half. We dominated clearances against Geelong and so we were able to generate i50s at ease without it. Against the Pies our midfield underperformed and we barely broke even in clearances. So we were more reliant on generating i50s from our back half imo.

And I agree on your last point - hopefully this was an outlier performance regarding our pressure and intensity. Will need to be at our best in that area against the Dees

 

[gab213]

I wasn't just talking about rd 21... we played St Kilda in that round...

We had: Silvagni, McGovern, Doc, Walsh, Williams, Harry, Cerra, Kennedy and Boyd all out throughout that period where we played multiple top 4 teams and won all those games....

An excuse, by definition, is a reason to justify a fault...

There's absolutely no doubt that had we lost those games last year people would have been blowing that injury excuse horn loud and clear.

There's just no justification for that now. This team has shown that they have the system in place to cover for significant outs. As depleted as we are in our backline, we had a pretty much full strength midfield and we had Harry out there as well. And, when you really examine the game, for 64 i50 we only conceded 12 goals... we conceded 18 from 45 the week prior against the Cats. Have a look at what the real flaw is there between the two games, conceded 20 more i50's and that doesn't come from not having Gov + Saad out there... and they're not going to solve for 54 tackles to Collingwood's 88...team defence was really poor which was outlined by our real lack of pressure.

The difference between now and last year is the intent and the attitude. Like I said, can't blame that lack of team pressure in the second quarter and the majority of the game for that matter on the outs we had.

Getting players back will certainly help, but it won't solve the root cause of our issues. Players need to buy in again and work harder to apply that pressure.

I'm presenting Round 21 as it shows the most that were missing at once outside of the GWS game where we left out players like Cripps and Doc as the game was a dead rubber as far as we were concerned. They would have played otherwise. Williams wasn't there for the whole season, just like SOS and Doc are this year, with Doc being a big loss as a leader.

Let's agree to disagree, I believe the fact that the backline has not been a settled formation all season is a huge factor, not to mention that with the return of Fogarty, Martin and Motlop we will have a much better forward line, There has been no cohesion and too many players with no composure in the team.

I'm sure that we will see a big difference once the better players are back.