Autopsy 2023 Round 1 DRAW. Ugly Blues still can't close out games

[JustaBattler]

I think you're underestimating how attack effects defence. Weitering was blocked which took him out of the contest (which was a very good block mind you, very good team forward craft), because of the fast transition there wasn't as much density in defensive 50 meaning more space to run and jump, the other Carlton defenders weren't in position to support due to them having to defend up field and the keys that were around couldn't not fly third man up like they otherwise would - again as they had to cover their man more tightly given lack of support. McGovern did his best to get there but he was running back to the contest, not in proper loose position of sitting in the hole - again because he got stretched up field.

Transition into fast break attack when the rest of the team are trying to hang back isn't a good idea. Team defence is a thing and there's a reason teams don't go balls to the wall attack every time forward as you'll leave yourself exposed chasing and defending the whole field instead of a controlled pocket of it. Slow movement forward, at times - not always - is used as a tool to maintain your defensive structure.

I'm not making all that up tbh that's basically what Hodge was saying last night when analysing how we blew it in the last 90 seconds. But I reckon you'd know more about defensive structure, attacking transition and closing out games than Luke Hodge so yeah you're probably right.

Hodge and co are paid entertainers mate it suits a media to come up with all sorts of self serving memes - I am an unpaid self-employed arm chair expert. If you wish to make up a story about how LoB lost the game for Carlton - I can't stop you, I've just stated the numbers and the facts as presented on a TV screen and replayed in slow motion. These facts are just that - facts not hyperbole weaponised by disappointment.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Possibly, though he was on good money at GC before here.

I just don't think he's good enough over 4 qtrs to be a full time small/mid forward. He can have impact moments or qtrs there, as we've seen a handful of times, but the Suns had his role right imo and us making him a full time forward hasn't worked for him or us.

Bit harsh after zero pre season games (other than a VFL praccy game)?

Fisher and JSOS, ditto Owies just as bad.

H2 saw Martin do a few good things...

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Truth. Comments saying H had 40m of space are delusional.

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Not to mention the fact that when he had a bit more space, the kick from LOB is 40m, not a 25m dart and the Tigers players would naturally have had more time to close that extra gap anyway.

 

[branedotorg]

Lewis Young

33

Lewis Young

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

197.9

3star

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

26.0

1star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

181.6

3star

played like 3 good games for us.

Now looks like a steal. Real shame

one was against us, absolutely destroyed us with intercept marking

 

[jj1978]

He's even better at making nothing out of something...

Like the bubbles of nothing, that make it really something?

 

[RAPPA]

Our rucking went to sht in the 3rd qtr. TDK was beaten all night quite comfortably by Nank who is in the lower bracket of rucks in the league.

We need a solution but right now it looks like we're in a lot of trouble. Don't know where TDK fits and Pitto is completely unfit and no world-beater even when in the team.

Get in the ear of Sean Darcy from now and Ty to lure him out of WA

 

[The Sultan]

Did Dusty give the cross wrist (handcuff) gesture after he kicked a goal ?? if so flog.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Whether O'brien release of the football was late, don't gloss over the fact if Harry was a champion he marks that ball....because that is what great players do. The first half our leaders made too many fundamental errors- docherty across goal kick that was intercepted, CCurnow dump kick that was on the full resulting in the Martin's last shot of Qtr 1 are examples. Game of 2 halves. Leaders missing in the first half. Mid tier players missing in the 2nd half

 

[jj1978]

Did Dusty give the cross wrist (handcuff) gesture after he kicked a goal ?? if so flog.

The guy has his name tattooed on his neck.

 

[BigFrizz36]

So next year (2024) instead of the obligatory " the tigers have beaten the blues in 11 of their last 12" from the commentators do you think that we might get "the tigers haven't beaten the blues in the opening round since 2021."

 

[Gethelred]

The coaches had shown the "shut the game down" picture. Charging forward when the rest of the team is shutting the game down isn't playing the percentages. There's a reason even after all that time Harry was the only guy inside 50 and no team mate was within 50 metres - bar Lob kicking to him.

We'll see what the coaches thought of the play this week.

LOB is completely dropped - not the sub, in the twos - despite the two selected wings having 27 disposals, 5 tackles and 0 goals or goal assists between them, we'll know he broke team rules. LOB is retained - whether as sub or in the 22 - we'll know that the coaches back the choice he made in the situation.

 

[dumb]

Lewis Young played like 3 good games for us.

Now looks like a steal. Real shame

only fair after we turn jones into a player you're happy to have on your list
stlll have painful memories of young's debut against us when he marked everything. probably helped get him through the door, brent heaver style.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Think Hewett is our best 2 way mid, followed by Cerra

Walsh is our #1 two way mid. And he could be the best two way mid in the comp.

He is a monumental out for us

 

[thylacine60]

Face grew a darker red soon as Gov gifted Martin's goal and was often full Eddie throughout. Wouldn't get too fussed about things till we setup how we want with the players we have........

SOS - gets brushed aside a bit too much, great mark
Dow - borderline invisible
Mots - intrigues, buzzes about and I liked his flair and effort to make space - kick some goals little dude
LOB - looked so fresh compared to the rest of the tired blokes obviously - that run showed effort and also the fact he is never going to give anyone confidence in his abilities - one bounce too many maybe but one day he'll ice a game for us - still not locked into the 22 and perhaps never will be
Cerra - great game - was everywhere - how often is he getting up last from packs? great year coming up
Zac - may as well have been in the stands
BBang - loved his toughness - please quit the throw on the boot around the corner shit please, Matty
Fog - unsighted, perhaps fog too heavy
Crippa - perplexing nothing game he will be pissed off with
Harry - magnificent game - 1000 marks, what a foil for goldilocks he is - no more behinds this year please
Gov - best and worse have to sit down to dinner sometime and make some form of compromise
TDK - took it on, loved his endeavour - it's all true, the hype........
Acres - consistency please
Dutchy - is a player
Doc - what a goal! I never thought he was in with a chance - please stop the gibbs bang on the boot kicks out of danger into danger
Carol - no impact
Kemp - see above
Walsh - will be unhappy with that effort
Durds - nope
Plow - barely hanging on
Martin - you're not paid to be the biggest celebrator of other goals
Marchy - poor game
Weits - solid
Newman - too scared to say anything here cause I think Jimster knows where I live
Fish - lovely goal - the end
Cow - brings the heat and experienced the real stuff last night - didn't look out of place
Pitt - well beaten
Cuners - still waiting
George - fabulous george was fabulous
Charlie - I think 3 goals? can kill with a touch
Lemm - Binns - both need to do more on last night's effort
Huey - won his position, better composure
Ed - ok but won't be improving much
Saad - very un-adam game
Owies - clever goal but..........

 

[katmanblue]

Tough one.

The last minute is interesting. Motlop marks on the wing and probably needs to go back, take 3 seconds and kick it to LOB 20 metres downfield or to Hollands 15 metres sideways, instead does the instinctive play which is to hand it to the runner. Inexperience showed. O'Brien too probably shouldn't have called for the pass, though it's hard to say if he did or not tbf to him.

He too could have passed back to Holland just behind, they had a 3 on 1 essentially so someone had to work out a way to find a kick/mark in that situation.

Then after all that the Pass to Harry actually split 4 defenders and hit H who slipped over for the second time in as many contests from him - not good enough. The result could have come off, but it was all the wrong play. The outcome doesn't mean it was the correct play and even if H marks it it's still the wrong play. But you had 3 inexperienced guys in that situation. If one of them was Doc/Saad on the wing it probably doesn't happen the way it did.


Then at the other end, the last contest. Can't blame Weiters too much as he got a good block so couldn't get to the contest - good forward craft from the Richmond forwards and shows it's not just as simple as a key forward bashing everyone out the way. Young didn't impact the contest at all and just stood there on the side (good game but bad moment). McGovern flew from the front but it's hard as a 190cm man when a 200+cm man gets a clean run and jump. Someone had to body him and help Weiters out once he got blocked, instead they all kind of got caught watching.

As Cripps said, as did Voss, lots of learnings to come from this. Frustrating to be saying that in rd 1 but at least that will help them to emphasise and reinforce what the messaging has been around close late games all off-season.

C'mon. If one of them was Doch, there's 80% chance it would have gone out on the full.

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[norway blue]

I thought we battled bravely all game and were in it up till the end. Defence played well considering the inside 50,s . Really need to close out these games when leading .


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[Jimmyonesix]

I said it after pre season games I will say it again -- we still can't kick out from a behind with any system as we can't move the ball from deep fifty with any system ..
We can not defend a sides kick in from behind or transition from our deep defensive 50 on rebound very often allowing sides shots scoring opportunities moving the ball through and past 18 players ..
For me it is our half fwds and wings and hb are not on the same page with our mids creating space and overlap or closing down space and restricting overlap ..
for me we don't get any bang for buck from our small fwds in transition or locking the ball in and if you are going to bang long dumps to 15metres out you need to be great at ground ball or defensive pressure and unfortunately our boys didnt show either last night --

 

[JyeDye]

I think you're underestimating how attack effects defence. Weitering was blocked which took him out of the contest (which was a very good block mind you, very good team forward craft), because of the fast transition there wasn't as much density in defensive 50 meaning more space to run and jump, the other Carlton defenders weren't in position to support due to them having to defend up field and the keys that were around couldn't not fly third man up like they otherwise would - again as they had to cover their man more tightly given lack of support. McGovern did his best to get there but he was running back to the contest, not in proper loose position of sitting in the hole - again because he got stretched up field.

Transition into fast break attack when the rest of the team are trying to hang back isn't a good idea. Team defence is a thing and there's a reason teams don't go balls to the wall attack every time forward as you'll leave yourself exposed chasing and defending the whole field instead of a controlled pocket of it. Slow movement forward, at times - not always - is used as a tool to maintain your defensive structure.

I'm not making all that up tbh that's basically what Hodge was saying last night when analysing how we blew it in the last 90 seconds. But I reckon you'd know more about defensive structure, attacking transition and closing out games than Luke Hodge so yeah you're probably right.

Completely agree. It's exactly how Richmond won 3 premierships, rebounding from turnovers. I don't think it's a hard concept to understand but apparently it seems to be. I don't really have any issues with LOB running like that if there were 15 minutes to go, but not with 1 minute. The real worry is Motlop playing on instead of simply kicking it back to LOB, he then gets another chip kick, then bomb it down another 60m with our talls set up to bring it to the boundary. Can then properly set up with loose defenders whilst forwards create congestion around the stoppage. That situation is much easier to execute, and gives a much higher win percentage.

The disappointing aspect about it all is that they've had all off-season to prepare for those situations, especially considering the end of last year. I'm sure it would have been prioritized, yet one game into the new season we still see a few players making non-optimal decisions.

 

[Coops93]

Hodge and co are paid entertainers mate it suits a media to come up with all sorts of self serving memes - I am an unpaid self-employed arm chair expert. If you wish to make up a story about how LoB lost the game for Carlton - I can't stop you, I've just stated the numbers and the facts as presented on a TV screen and replayed in slow motion. These facts are just that - facts not hyperbole weaponised by disappointment.

Is it more likely that he made up a story, a story that completely explains the cause and effect of the attack that results in the defence being exposed exactly as it was

or

The 3-time premiership captain, and renown backline general, knows what he's talking about when it comes to team defence and how reckless attacks can leave it exposed?

Just because he sits in a suit on TV doesn't mean he's full of sh**. What a narrowminded perspective.

Believe it or not I don't blame LOB for the loss and have posted several times in this thread about why, so you're wrong in that assumption.

They may be facts, however, facts presented without perspective or context are open to misinterpretation. Yes, on the simplest level Weitering, McGovern, Young and the rest of the defence were outmarked or beaten, but why where they beaten is the question that needs answering for us to avoid being beaten next time. Dismiss that as weaponised hyperbole if you like, but I'd like to know the reasons why, as do the coaches and analysts of the game. It just might prevent it from happening next time.

 

[Sin City]

Great game. Intense contest, errors and fumbles happen for both teams in those high pressure games. Tackling from both teams was great to watch.

LOB did the right thing taking all that territory before releasing the ball. Not his fault Harry fell over, not sure why people are expecting him to make a 130 metre kick. I’m not his biggest fan but he did well with his fresh legs when he came on.

Felt like Hewett, Cerra and Kennedy were on top for about three quarters. Cripps was huge in the last. Third quarter was shithouse, couldn’t get near the ball and it cost us a win.

Need more out of the half forwards. Owies will be lucky to keep his spot. Durdin would’ve been handy in such a chaotic game, would’ve suited him.

Loved some of the efforts from young blokes. Cowan, Hollands and Motlop all showed some good signs.

Young is looking like a great pickup and a long term KPD for us.

Bring on next week!

 

[Ezayyak]

One hundred percent agree regarding zero system from the kick in. Non existent. The first half and a bit Richmond took the ball the length of the field way too easily but to be fair, we tightened up on their exits as the game went on. Bolton wasn't getting out the back on the wing later in the game.

Our system out from a kick in and out inability to spread from defence is what is holding us down right now. Again, it was only Cerra who really gave us that option and we looked the most potent when it was him with the ball defensive side of the ground.

I said it after pre season games I will say it again -- we still can't kick out from a behind with any system as we can't move the ball from deep fifty with any system ..
We can not defend a sides kick in from behind or transition from our deep defensive 50 on rebound very often allowing sides shots scoring opportunities moving the ball through and past 18 players ..
For me it is our half fwds and wings and hb are not on the same page with our mids creating space and overlap or closing down space and restricting overlap ..
for me we don't get any bang for buck from our small fwds in transition or locking the ball in and if you are going to bang long dumps to 15metres out you need to be great at ground ball or defensive pressure and unfortunately our boys didnt show either last night --

 

[gbatman]

We were good in close, good in the contest.

We were poor on the outside, what really stood out was our inability to apply pressure once Richmond got out.

Talls didn't stand up, structure's questionable.

Our ball movement is garbage, we just pick a side and bang it up the line. Think we did one switch high up the ground, hardly any deep in defence. They did plenty. Our defence just has no clue how to open up a side a switch play. Can't stand our ball movement, it's rubbish.

Our wings and forwards just go to waste. Terrible game plan with how we exit defence.

Slow as slow can get. Again on the outside we are slugs. Walsh, Boyd, Williams, Durdin, Marchbank... there's a lot of pace out of this side.


Better with our tempo stuff than last season.


Hewett - very good, just hard at it.

Cripps - good but needs to hurt more with handball.

Docherty - he was good apart from some terrible kicking errors.

Kennedy - another inside mid who had a strong game.

Cerra - thought he was solid.

McGovern - rusty but he was OK.

Young - good battle with Riewoldt, was really good.

Weitering - Good but had moments he'd like again.

Saad - a one man band as a fast defender.

Acres - Hope he gets going. Our ball movement doesn't look after wingmen at all. His ball handling needs a tidy up.

E Curnow - he's a fill in and it shows.

Newman - solid job defending, not a bad game.

DeKoning- he was OK, overwhelmed by some big strong rucks a bit.

McKay- just average, again our ball movement hurts outside players such as forwards. Had a clumsy night.

Hollands- solid on debut, not quite ready yet, but worth putting games into.

C Curnow - couldn't hold a mark, made poor space but did get it bombed on his head a lot.

Cowan - has plenty of ability. Fitness a long way off.

Fisher - terrible. Intent to apply pressure non existent. Just spectated as the opposition mopped up and ran past him all game.

Owies - looks slow, made skill errors, not a great showing.

Martin - MIA.

Silvagni- great start, gave away frees in the ruck. The moment he rucks he loses his forward game.

O'Brien- came on and was good.

 

[Gethelred]

If anyone wants to pinpoint a moment - it was Motlop choosing to give the hands to LOB with 90 seconds to go. This moment has nothing to do with skill execution (as seen with Acres or H moments) but is purely decision based.

Mots was unfortunately caught up in the moment and LOB didn't have the leadership to yell HOLD IT. Mots had both LOB and Hollands in 20 metres of space. If he goes back, kicks to LOB, who kicks to Hollands, who finds one more target, there is probably 40 seconds left and worst case scenario we go long down the line, halve the contest, and the game is done.

No doubt Vossy will highlight this and both players will learn from it.

Why?

This is genuinely dumb. Why would a coach of an AFL team highlight an excellent play that would've iced the game - using the method we'd employed throughout the game to tremendous effect; running the ball after winning clear of the defensive cluster - that only didn't work because a full forward slipped over while running in a straight line???

 

[charred_fate]

The taking the game on, I didn’t mind. The decision not to use H when he was proper free, I didn’t. Funny thing is, I’m probably one of the biggest critics of H on the forum too … for, you betcha, going to ground too easily! (Usually it’s in the context of an opponent having body on him though).

Don’t think either player will ever change. With H, he played well last night for the most part but he’s always going to do dumb-ish things. Doesn’t mean he can’t win a flag.

 

[Neese]

****ing sick of the bagging of LoB. Plenty of shit things in that match to talk about. I am going to watch it again before I comment but happy to get 2 points.