News 2023 St Kilda Media Thread

[Saint Watto]

******* LOL
Did anyone just see the old duck on abc news got to go to Moorabbin for her 100th birthday and on arrival told Steele she was disappointed in their effort last weekend

That was absolute gold.........I was waiting for her to give Steely an absolute spray.

 

[gringo2011]

Sorry, that’s completely wrong.

Lyon has said many times he coaches for effort and isn’t a coach worried about skill errors.

Not sure how that can be in dispute.

Coaches like Chris Scott are the ones who specifically say effort should be a given, not Lyon.

That’s why it’s strange this week to hear Ross bemoan skills of players when it goes completely against what he has said historically about not being concerned about skills as compared to effort.

If you want skillful teams, you can’t have the attitude Ross has. You need to coach it constantly and prioritize it. Not effort and tackling (maybe worked in 2009, not 2023).

There has been absolutely no evidence over Ross Lyon’s coaching career that he is capable of coaching a skillful, attacking system. 2009-10 when we scored heavily was down to counter attacking because our zone was such a novelty at the time and we had an advantage over the competition. Now everyone does it AND knows how to score off instances that aren’t turnovers.

Amazed with the toxic positivity some show on here toward Ross and the club. Years in the wilderness, playing turgid football this year, and then this week we have our coach priming us up for a rebuild and throwing the list under the bus about their lack of “quality”…. yet there’s many of you lapping it up congratulating him on what he’s saying for some reason?

Give me a break, if you believe Ross and his turgid style can get us out of this mess in 2023, you’ll believe anything I guess.

To me we've gone down the road we have and just need to hope that it pays some dividends. The standards that we set were below par and the footy department was run down and we had no idea how to fix it.

Ross Lyon is our Roos. He's doing the media but he's given the reins to the assistants. Our true planning coach is probably Boris these days with the Harves and Hayes as his sounding boards and line coaches. Lyon seems more big picture almost like an international football manager. He seems more like director of football like Balme but is the face of the club and able to handle the media and heat.

It's impossible to gauge where we are at until we can put up close to a best 22. All the skills in the world won't cover a lack of players. Man City would struggle without Harland and Alvarez. It wouldn't make Pep shit at coaching if they lost without them.

Even if Lyon doesn't get results on field I think he's building some foundations that professional clubs have that we lacked. I don't think people realise how badly run down the football department was. We don't need to just hire staff to replace people, we need to define roles, and create a structure and framework that we didn't have. It was run like a local ammos club staffed with volunteers before. We were set up to fail by austerity.

 

[gringo2011]

Just to back up the whole “Ross is an effort coach” thing, besides loads of articles from his past coaching tenures, an article from his latest stint from earlier this year when we were top of the ladder, backs it up, this quote from Wood illustrates it:

"Everyone and anyone is encouraged to do that, then on the rebound you've got all your numbers around ball then we flow," he said.

"If their defenders want to come with our forwards who are chasing all way up ground, then we know we can get them on the way back. It's not an amazing gameplan, it's just effort."

Few saw Saints' surge coming

It’s all about physicality, running, tackling etc. with Ross, and getting his teams to buy in to it.

Problem is, while he was a very successful win/loss coach for a while, he dropped off pretty alarmingly in the late part of his Freo tenure.

There’s very little to suggest since his time ended at Freo that he has evolved into a coach that can change his outdated gameplan to move the ball like a modern team needs to.

Adding to this problem is the game has also evolved into an even more tactically dynamic (offensively) sport since he stopped coaching. So he was already far behind at Freo and, three years out of the game and no further coaching education, he’s even more ill-equipped to succeed this time around.

I love the club and have supported it for over 40 years, but I am not going to be fed rubbish about how Lyon is the man because his best mate Roo told me so and Ross spins a good yarn in a presser where he shifts most of the blame onto the players instead of the coaches that send them out with a gameplan that scores 2 goals in a half against the Gold Coast and hasn’t improved our win loss record.

Logic says this job will be beyond him unless he gets an assistant in with the skill set to do what he can’t.

And that’s not being negative.

I think we have the worst combination at the moment. Lack of skilled players and lack of effort due to years of low standards. Neither are quick fixes. Lyon has a shit style but it's not a massive impediment in AFL yet. Sydney made the GF last year playing a Lyon brand. Even Geelong are a very systems driven side but have a much stronger list, plenty of them aren't particularly great users though.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Needs more likes.

 

[BigMonty]

About RTB....sick of the BS about him. In the first quarter of GCS how many handballs missed the target and at players feet...kicks missing targets into fwd 50 etc. It is nothing to do with effort but mental application, fatigue has yet to set in.
RTB says same players making the same mistakes...pretty obvious.

First Crack highlights Sinclair's lack of defensive run on Anderson a couple of times early in the game...that's mental application. Not potting Sincs as he is the last that should be criticised but until the attitude is fixed then we stay where we are as a team and club.

Andrew Bassett has made millions making the right decisions based on knowledge experience and gut feel.....everyone on this site who pots him well go and nominate for the board and let's scrutinise your capabilities and see if they match up otherwise shut the f@ck up.

He did a thorough research and review and acted accordingly on the information.

We have a shit football department for years he took action and got best available to fix it...that's the easy bit. He probably had to keep Lethlean for continuity...who knows whether he is good or bad....better than Nettlefold and Fraser surely the answer is yes.

Harder issue is fixing on field performance....you just can't replace and get best available like you can with management....we have a draft and salary cap constraints. It will take time and patience to recruit the right players who get supported with the right structures to promote the right attitude that resulted in Hayes Riewoldt et al to be the players they became....yes became. Started with Grant Thomas and perfected by RTB.

Let's be serious there is no other coach that we have had or was available at the time of sacking Ratts that has taken two clubs to 4 grand finals. We needed a low risk of failure coach to get this ship turned around a rookie coach would not have the experience and certainty of coaching processes to achieve that...remember we just had 2 rookie coaches in Watters and Richo and a not badly past performed coach in Ratts. So our strike rate is not that flash. Also remember there are more not successful AFL coaches than successful. So we had to choose wisely and choose the least risk option so as not to put us back another 4 years.

Look at the pressure to perform that Voss has been under at the Blues and yet now all is seemingly forgiven. Interestingly they win when their star forward goes down....it's a fickle game.

The players in conjunction with coaches set the playing standard and the players have to enforce it and the coaches support it by showing vision of the games and setting drills to help achieve their goals.

Interestingly when Monday after a weekend game became a day off....there were only 6 or so players who went to the club to improve....says a bit about attitude. Whether that is an intentional test of attitude by RTB is up for speculation.

If I was on 450k a year, I know that I would be doing as much as I can to be the best I can to stay playing the game I love for as long as I can.

Quoting Al Pachino in Any given Sunday. " I can't do it for you I am too old....you have to look into the eyes of the man next to you and see a man that is going to tear his body apart to get that inch for you because he knows that you will do the same for him. That's a team gentlemen....that's Football......now what are you going to do about it?"

Methinks RTB is asking this of the players and the players and coaches are working out who will and who won't do what is required.

These are the growing pains that we as a club will go through....good and bad

Go Saints


On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dr Spaceman]

About RTB....sick of the BS about him. In the first quarter of GCS how many handballs missed the target and at players feet...kicks missing targets into fwd 50 etc. It is nothing to do with effort but mental application, fatigue has yet to set in.
RTB says same players making the same mistakes...pretty obvious.

First Crack highlights Sinclair's lack of defensive run on Anderson a couple of times early in the game...that's mental application. Not potting Sincs as he is the last that should be criticised but until the attitude is fixed then we stay where we are as a team and club.

Andrew Bassett has made millions making the right decisions based on knowledge experience and gut feel.....everyone on this site who pots him well go and nominate for the board and let's scrutinise your capabilities and see if they match up otherwise shut the f@ck up.

He did a thorough research and review and acted accordingly on the information.

We have a s**t football department for years he took action and got best available to fix it...that's the easy bit. He probably had to keep Lethlean for continuity...who knows whether he is good or bad....better than Nettlefold and Fraser surely the answer is yes.

Harder issue is fixing on field performance....you just can't replace and get best available like you can with management....we have a draft and salary cap constraints. It will take time and patience to recruit the right players who get supported with the right structures to promote the right attitude that resulted in Hayes Riewoldt et al to be the players they became....yes became. Started with Grant Thomas and perfected by RTB.

Let's be serious there is no other coach that we have had or was available at the time of sacking Ratts that has taken two clubs to 4 grand finals. We needed a low risk of failure coach to get this ship turned around a rookie coach would not have the experience and certainty of coaching processes to achieve that...remember we just had 2 rookie coaches in Watters and Richo and a not badly past performed coach in Ratts. So our strike rate is not that flash. Also remember there are more not successful AFL coaches than successful. So we had to choose wisely and choose the least risk option so as not to put us back another 4 years.

Look at the pressure to perform that Voss has been under at the Blues and yet now all is seemingly forgiven. Interestingly they win when their star forward goes down....it's a fickle game.

The players in conjunction with coaches set the playing standard and the players have to enforce it and the coaches support it by showing vision of the games and setting drills to help achieve their goals.

Interestingly when Monday after a weekend game became a day off....there were only 6 or so players who went to the club to improve....says a bit about attitude. Whether that is an intentional test of attitude by RTB is up for speculation.

If I was on 450k a year, I know that I would be doing as much as I can to be the best I can to stay playing the game I love for as long as I can.

Quoting Al Pachino in Any given Sunday. " I can't do it for you I am too old....you have to look into the eyes of the man next to you and see a man that is going to tear his body apart to get that inch for you because he knows that you will do the same for him. That's a team gentlemen....that's Football......now what are you going to do about it?"

Methinks RTB is asking this of the players and the players and coaches are working out who will and who won't do what is required.

These are the growing pains that we as a club will go through....good and bad

Go Saints


On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Cobra]

Riewoldt v Ratts is hilarious.

If Riewoldt got the info from Ross (even though anyone could see it with their own eyes) it's even funnier that Ratts is fired back.

a 2x failed coach getting upset that a coach renowned for driving hard standards and has a 100% strike rate at taking clubs to a GF is questioning the standards he left behind.

Also, how funny is the media defending Ratts, start of the year they were reporting that our list had a drinking problem.

I think Ratts is a terrific bloke who has had to endure some incredible hardship none of us would ever want to experience.

Naturally he defends his legacy, but training standards were ordinary. Bush footy compared to what you see now.

The media - well - a bunch of bottom feeding, gossip seeking, innuendo spreading hypocrites who twist the truth to suit their narrative and blow with the wind. NEVER to be trusted! Appalling occupation (certainly not a profession).

 

[The Cobra]

About RTB....sick of the BS about him. In the first quarter of GCS how many handballs missed the target and at players feet...kicks missing targets into fwd 50 etc. It is nothing to do with effort but mental application, fatigue has yet to set in.
RTB says same players making the same mistakes...pretty obvious.

First Crack highlights Sinclair's lack of defensive run on Anderson a couple of times early in the game...that's mental application. Not potting Sincs as he is the last that should be criticised but until the attitude is fixed then we stay where we are as a team and club.

Andrew Bassett has made millions making the right decisions based on knowledge experience and gut feel.....everyone on this site who pots him well go and nominate for the board and let's scrutinise your capabilities and see if they match up otherwise shut the f@ck up.

He did a thorough research and review and acted accordingly on the information.

We have a s**t football department for years he took action and got best available to fix it...that's the easy bit. He probably had to keep Lethlean for continuity...who knows whether he is good or bad....better than Nettlefold and Fraser surely the answer is yes.

Harder issue is fixing on field performance....you just can't replace and get best available like you can with management....we have a draft and salary cap constraints. It will take time and patience to recruit the right players who get supported with the right structures to promote the right attitude that resulted in Hayes Riewoldt et al to be the players they became....yes became. Started with Grant Thomas and perfected by RTB.

Let's be serious there is no other coach that we have had or was available at the time of sacking Ratts that has taken two clubs to 4 grand finals. We needed a low risk of failure coach to get this ship turned around a rookie coach would not have the experience and certainty of coaching processes to achieve that...remember we just had 2 rookie coaches in Watters and Richo and a not badly past performed coach in Ratts. So our strike rate is not that flash. Also remember there are more not successful AFL coaches than successful. So we had to choose wisely and choose the least risk option so as not to put us back another 4 years.

Look at the pressure to perform that Voss has been under at the Blues and yet now all is seemingly forgiven. Interestingly they win when their star forward goes down....it's a fickle game.

The players in conjunction with coaches set the playing standard and the players have to enforce it and the coaches support it by showing vision of the games and setting drills to help achieve their goals.

Interestingly when Monday after a weekend game became a day off....there were only 6 or so players who went to the club to improve....says a bit about attitude. Whether that is an intentional test of attitude by RTB is up for speculation.

If I was on 450k a year, I know that I would be doing as much as I can to be the best I can to stay playing the game I love for as long as I can.

Quoting Al Pachino in Any given Sunday. " I can't do it for you I am too old....you have to look into the eyes of the man next to you and see a man that is going to tear his body apart to get that inch for you because he knows that you will do the same for him. That's a team gentlemen....that's Football......now what are you going to do about it?"

Methinks RTB is asking this of the players and the players and coaches are working out who will and who won't do what is required.

These are the growing pains that we as a club will go through....good and bad

Go Saints


On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Good rant - love it - and on the money!

 

[gringo2011]

I think Ratts is a terrific bloke who has had to endure some incredible hardship none of us would ever want to experience.

Naturally he defends his legacy, but training standards were ordinary. Bush footy compared to what you see now.

The media - well - a bunch of bottom feeding, gossip seeking, innuendo spreading hypocrites who twist the truth to suit their narrative and blow with the wind. NEVER to be trusted! Appalling occupation (certainly not a profession).

It was on the club not Ratts. He came into a club and performed with what he had. It was us not him. We needed a big shake up to reinvent ourselves because the whole place was in a torpor. We almost needed to burn the place down and start again.

 

[sunny3193]

Excellent response Doc.
Mowman and George could learn a thing or two from someone as your good self.

 

[BigMonty]

It was on the club not Ratts. He came into a club and performed with what he had. It was us not him. We needed a big shake up to reinvent ourselves because the whole place was in a torpor. We almost needed to burn the place down and start again.

Pretty much what we have done. Done it to management now onto playing g group.

Confuscious say "Need to fix back of house so front of house not smell like shit."

On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Saint Watto]

Quoting Al Pachino in Any given Sunday. " I can't do it for you I am too old....you have to look into the eyes of the man next to you and see a man that is going to tear his body apart to get that inch for you because he knows that you will do the same for him. That's a team gentlemen....that's Football......now what are you going to do about it?"

Methinks RTB is asking this of the players and the players and coaches are working out who will and who won't do what is required.

These are the growing pains that we as a club will go through....good and bad

A truly great post there BM.

 

[sunny3193]

Excellent response Doc.
Mowman and George could learn a thing or two from someone as your good self.

So could ScrappyDo

 

[Munga]

About RTB....sick of the BS about him. In the first quarter of GCS how many handballs missed the target and at players feet...kicks missing targets into fwd 50 etc. It is nothing to do with effort but mental application, fatigue has yet to set in.
RTB says same players making the same mistakes...pretty obvious.

First Crack highlights Sinclair's lack of defensive run on Anderson a couple of times early in the game...that's mental application. Not potting Sincs as he is the last that should be criticised but until the attitude is fixed then we stay where we are as a team and club.

Andrew Bassett has made millions making the right decisions based on knowledge experience and gut feel.....everyone on this site who pots him well go and nominate for the board and let's scrutinise your capabilities and see if they match up otherwise shut the f@ck up.

He did a thorough research and review and acted accordingly on the information.

We have a s**t football department for years he took action and got best available to fix it...that's the easy bit. He probably had to keep Lethlean for continuity...who knows whether he is good or bad....better than Nettlefold and Fraser surely the answer is yes.

Harder issue is fixing on field performance....you just can't replace and get best available like you can with management....we have a draft and salary cap constraints. It will take time and patience to recruit the right players who get supported with the right structures to promote the right attitude that resulted in Hayes Riewoldt et al to be the players they became....yes became. Started with Grant Thomas and perfected by RTB.

Let's be serious there is no other coach that we have had or was available at the time of sacking Ratts that has taken two clubs to 4 grand finals. We needed a low risk of failure coach to get this ship turned around a rookie coach would not have the experience and certainty of coaching processes to achieve that...remember we just had 2 rookie coaches in Watters and Richo and a not badly past performed coach in Ratts. So our strike rate is not that flash. Also remember there are more not successful AFL coaches than successful. So we had to choose wisely and choose the least risk option so as not to put us back another 4 years.

Look at the pressure to perform that Voss has been under at the Blues and yet now all is seemingly forgiven. Interestingly they win when their star forward goes down....it's a fickle game.

The players in conjunction with coaches set the playing standard and the players have to enforce it and the coaches support it by showing vision of the games and setting drills to help achieve their goals.

Interestingly when Monday after a weekend game became a day off....there were only 6 or so players who went to the club to improve....says a bit about attitude. Whether that is an intentional test of attitude by RTB is up for speculation.

If I was on 450k a year, I know that I would be doing as much as I can to be the best I can to stay playing the game I love for as long as I can.

Quoting Al Pachino in Any given Sunday. " I can't do it for you I am too old....you have to look into the eyes of the man next to you and see a man that is going to tear his body apart to get that inch for you because he knows that you will do the same for him. That's a team gentlemen....that's Football......now what are you going to do about it?"

Methinks RTB is asking this of the players and the players and coaches are working out who will and who won't do what is required.

These are the growing pains that we as a club will go through....good and bad

Go Saints


On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Only 6 players turned up? Shows how many are driven to succeed, and the others are in it because it's a high-paying job. Wrong attitude. Not good enough.

 

[George]

Only 6 players turned up? Shows how many are driven to succeed, and the others are in it because it's a high-paying job. Wrong attitude. Not good enough.

Would like to read wherever that came from

 

[Mowman]

Would like to read wherever that came from

Would like to know the 6 that showed up

 

[George]

Would like to know the that showed up

If its true. Only seen it mentioned once and it was in that earlier post

 

[ScrappyDo]

So could ScrappyDo

If you don't stop quoting yourself you'll get a rash..

 

[sunny3193]

If you don't stop quoting yourself you'll get a rash..

That made me laugh.
Thanks

 

[sunny3193]

Would like to know the 6 that showed up

Gresham, Howard, Hill, Cordy, Ross, and Clark.
Take it to the bank.

 

[gringo2011]

Gresham, Howard, Hill, Cordy, Ross, and Clark.
Take it to the bank.

Probably got lost on the way to Dan Murphy's.

 

[Munga]

Congratulations to diehard Saint Steph Catley on captaining Australia in our first Women's World Cup match on home soil! Wearing number 7 after idolizing Lenny , don't we all.

 

[Munga]

And just bloody scored!

 

[austinnn]

******* LOL
Did anyone just see the old duck on abc news got to go to Moorabbin for her 100th birthday and on arrival told Steele she was disappointed in their effort last weekend

Make HER the captain.


Seriously, the leadership issue is very important IMO and one of the biggest failures of the regimes since the first Lyon Era. Even with the input of the great Billy Slater whose direct remit it was, our leadership programs have produced nothing, not one skerrick of a real leader besides maybe Jarryn Geary, who in truth is more of an effective deputy, like Steele.

Leadership means different things to different people, and there are many factors to it. A leader needs to coax more out of someone who thinks they are giving everything, to stand up for their group when they are under attack, to show an example, to get their people to respond after every defeat and stay focused after every victory, to be there for their people when they feel alone. They need to know when to separate themselves from the group so they can act without trying to be their friend and when to be one of the team. They also most importantly need to train others to lead without them.

They need to be articulate, strong, sensitive, proactive, empowering.

Our group are famously so coachable which to me sounds like there's no leadership at all there. Out of the personnel we have, I'd have a look at the following:

Coffield - if he can get & stay on the field, he seems like he has a lot of character, like a young Ross Lyon in fact.

Byrnes - seems to have been a leader as a youth, is up and about and will die trying in the team. The only question is is he actually good enough to stay in the AFL?

Stocker - he's new but he's far and away the most articulate intelligent and forthright player we have, knows how to reach people, is a hard bastard when necessary has built himself up again from nothing and loves the club. He has well-known mental health issues, but if his people think it would work in his favour and if he doesn't get delisted, he should be put into a leadership program at least.

Windhager - he's very young and very nice but already fiercely leading by example and has a great attitude. He seems a quiet storm like Steele but again, a leadership program beckons.

Battle - tons of character and determined, questions on his maturity but he has something about him. Don't know much about him off field though.

Wilkie - most obvious choice and would be an ideal stop-gap. Already the leader in everything but name imo.


Personally I wouldn't choose Owens, he's too nice, too quiet and we need him focused on being a star, not worrying about others. Not convinced about Sinclair or Marshall, I think they are good players, but a bit too much like Ross, Billings etc. Too shy shy.

 

[Ads734]

Apologies if this has been posted already, but check out this table which I saw on Twitter. In a season that’s starting to slip away, we don’t talk about JW nearly enough. He’s a wonderful player when fit.

Love Jimmy, he's been amazing since he's come back. Pickett, Cameron destroyed them both.