List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management discussion

[Sproj]

Delivered like a sledgehammer, but there’s some truth to your post. However, like you said he is an integral part of the fabric and, maybe optimistically, I can see some of his flaws being worked through. For a start - in finals learning that he must lower the eyes and take the first option.

I posted on another thread expectations around his ability should be tempered. He will always be mid tier. But he can play a role - maybe a summer where he focuses on modelling more of Dunkley traits so we have another defensive midfield option is his best go. Like you, I see Fletcher going past him at some point soon, and would like to see a Prior or Starc (Answerth going back to the lockdown role) trialled in his wing position.

Certainly a big pre season coming up for him, but I think he can work hard and get himself back to being a valuable role player.

I’d love to see Sharp get another shot on the wing, he looked alright the few times I watched the seconds play. He can certainly run all day.

 

[Thomasno]

They said "could" just so they can say anything.

Remember when it was Rayner last year and old mate had to apologise on air because he clearly got a strongly worded text from the club?

 

[Elixuh]

 

[Clarkythelion]

I see some potential with Fullarton but you need to forget about him as the big hulking bloke he is.

His strengths are actually his tank and cleanliness below his knees. He doesn't absorb body contact well and is not very quick.

If Melbourne want to get something out of him i'd be using him as a forward target and telling him to get on his bike - much like Jono Brown got the ball by repeat leads rather than pace, this is Fullarton's best hope. Quite a nice neat kick too.

If we get a third round pick we should buy a lotto ticket tbh. Some sort of future pick with a few points attached to Levi i suspect.

Mathieson - can't see us getting anything really. Solid footballer - funny to think he got 2 brownlow votes v GWS last year and has barely played since. Honestly think West Coast could do worse than pick him - he's got a bit of attitude with their kids will need, and a solid inside mid who will at least have some mongrel. Good accurate kick at goal too.

From what briztoon is saying we might need a lot of picks next year, maybe that will be the priority meaning a few players get an extra year?

OUT Fullarton / Mathieson / Rich / Cockatoo

IN Doedee / 3 draft picks

ONE YEAR SWORD OF DAMOCLES CONTRACTS B Coleman / Michael / McDowell-White

What about Darragh Joyce? I'm thinking we got him to replace Adams so he takes one of those list spots as he was carried as an extra this year?

 

[dlanod]

What about Darragh Joyce? I'm thinking we got him to replace Adams so he takes one of those list spots as he was carried as an extra this year?

He's a rookie so he'll replace Cockatoo or Matho or Coleman.

 

[Clarkythelion]

He's a rookie so he'll replace Cockatoo or Matho or Coleman.

So he counts as a 'draft pick' when upgraded? does that leave us with only 3 spot now which is what we want as a minimum? (off - Adams, Rich, Cockatoo, Fullerton, Mathieson = 5, on Joyce, Doedee = 2)

 

[acuguy]

We need a fit and firing Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

as part of our midfield rotation. He isn't a winger, he has been serviceable on the wing. He looked like the best player in the competition last year when he was on Oliver and toweled up Melbourne.

 

[dlanod]

So he counts as a 'draft pick' when upgraded? does that leave us with only 3 spot now which is what we want as a minimum? (off - Adams, Rich, Cockatoo, Fullerton, Mathieson = 5, on Joyce, Doedee = 2)

I don't think we'll upgrade him to the senior list. If we do though he will count as a draft pick.

 

[Berrygood]

We need a fit and firing Jarrod Berry as part of our midfield rotation. He isn't a winger, he has been serviceable on the wing. He looked like the best player in the competition last year when he was on Oliver and toweled up Melbourne.

I'm hoping a bit of post season rest and some rehab and strengthening will be good for his shoulders. If there's nothing serious enough to warrant surgery, after doing some reading on shoulder injuries, this could see improvement. Always a chance tho that said injuries could be past the point of no return.

I do think a lot of the criticisms of Berry are a bit unfair. Sure he had some brain farts in the GF, but in general his work has been pretty good on the wing. Not often thru the season did his man get the better of him, he's got back to support in defense, has delivered into the fwd 50 well and is reliable kicking for goal. It would be great to see him get back to playing more time in the middle but as a winger he's been more than functional, maybe not a standout but a good solid workhorse.

 

[Sanchez365]

We need a fit and firing Jarrod Berry as part of our midfield rotation. He isn't a winger, he has been serviceable on the wing. He looked like the best player in the competition last year when he was on Oliver and toweled up Melbourne.

I would love a midfield lineup of
Neale / Dunkley / McCluggage swapping with Ashcroft / Berry / Rayner. However it seems like a pipedream that Berry and Rayner become FT mids (although I still believe Rayner can achieve it).

We need more midfield depth, we saw Lyons come in and have a massive impact in the GF, but he has severe limitations that were also on show.

Agree with Berrygood above as well. He is a little bit Kamden McIntosh about him in that he's been a workhorse going up and down the ground and had a few good games.

 

[Section 5]

We need a fit and firing Jarrod Berry as part of our midfield rotation. He isn't a winger, he has been serviceable on the wing. He looked like the best player in the competition last year when he was on Oliver and toweled up Melbourne.

I think you are getting a little carried away with Berrys' one quarter on Oliver.
When Berry was playing mostly midfield, he was very inconsistent in that position.
That was before he had his shoulder issues.

Berry has been our best winger for the last 2 years in a top 4 team.
Fletcher should improve but sometimes players stall a bit in their 2nd year. Hopefully he won't be one of them.
Who plays that 3rd wing role is my concern in 2024.
Playing Ah Chee as a forward/wing does not work in my opinion. He played a role, but we need a better wing.
Same issue when we ran quite a few midfielders through the wing position in rounds 1- 14.

My preferred wingers for next year:
(a) Berry - Wilmot - Fletcher
(b) Berry - Fletcher - (Sharp - maybe club trades someone in) then Ah Chee or some others if we settle on a role player.

Wilmot is a good half back but i believe we have more players that can fill that role if he moves to wing/midfield in his 3rd year.

 

[Maverick]

Fagan is right when he talks about the importance of Energy Levels.

It’s the same thing as Effort and Endeavour.

In terms of Energy Levels Berry is one of our players who frustrates me most.

I remember a game a number of years back. We brought Tom Berry into the team for a game. Jarrods effort went from a 6 out of 10 in previous weeks to a 10. Why, why, why I thought can’t you play with this level of desire every week, why has it taken the selection of your brother for you to lift.

Joe Daniher was one who frustrated me last year with lack of effort. It was made clear to him in his exit meeting he had to do much better. And didn’t he respond. I’m hoping the clubs had a similar discussion with Berry.

I reckon Jarrods a good fella. He’s a good clubman. In last years final against Melbourne he showed what he’s capable of. If he can get his head fully back in the game he’s a very capable player, but currently he’s not getting the most out of himself.

 

[Chezz]

At the end of the day the club was ruthless with Witherden (shown since to be the right call), Robertson (who played a blinder on Whitfield in his last game before being delisted) and Rich when he started to struggle. But soft in others like Birchall when he wasn’t performing.

For us to take the next step (and we’re not far off) similar calls need to be made on Gunston, Lyons and Berry imo. All have one year left on their contracts but if guys like Sharp and Tunstill are performing in the twos they need to be given a run at it over those other guys.

 

[jfn]

I would love a midfield lineup of
Neale / Dunkley / McCluggage swapping with Ashcroft / Berry / Rayner. However it seems like a pipedream that Berry and Rayner become FT mids (although I still believe Rayner can achieve it).

We need more midfield depth, we saw Lyons come in and have a massive impact in the GF, but he has severe limitations that were also on show.

Agree with Berrygood above as well. He is a little bit Kamden McIntosh about him in that he's been a workhorse going up and down the ground and had a few good games.

I would love to add at least one more A grader to the midfield. This year we missed the stability of Zorko at his best, Lyons also at his best and Mitch's chaotic grunt. With the focus on the talent coming through, its easy to forget what we've lost in experience. It a shame there isn't the trade picks there to chase one more front line mid.

 

[Tom14]

At the end of the day the club was ruthless with Witherden (shown since to be the right call), Robertson (who played a blinder on Whitfield in his last game before being delisted) and Rich when he started to struggle. But soft in others like Birchall when he wasn’t performing.

For us to take the next step (and we’re not far off) similar calls need to be made on Gunston, Lyons and Berry imo. All have one year left on their contracts but if guys like Sharp and Tunstill are performing in the twos they need to be given a run at it over those other guys.

I’ve never seen sharp or Tunstill give a performance even close to the typical output from Berry.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I’ve never seen sharp or Tunstill give a performance even close to the typical output from Berry.

And Lyons was the best player in the VFL. So going ff VFL performances

 

[M Malice]

Still OOC > Mathieson, Brain, McDowell-White, Michael, Zorko, B.Coleman... Fullarton(trade requested).

I am a tad surprised that there has been no news re Shadeau Brain getting a new contract, he was quite impressive in the latter stages of the VFL season.

 

[mpal6]

Well Brayden Preuss has made an art form of this one. 28 games across 8 years in 3 different clubs on say an average AFL salary of 250-300k. Since Ruckman's prime years are around 28 to 32-33 (Preuss is 28), he could keep this gig going for another 5 years easy.

When drafted to North - "I look forward to learning under Goldstein"
When traded to Demons - "I look forward to learning under Gawn"
When traded to GWS - "I look forward to learning under Mumford"
If he scores another extension at GWS he might say "I look forward to learning under Kieren Briggs".

CODE Sports

CODE Sports

www.codesports.com.au

 

[Chezz]

I’ve never seen sharp or Tunstill give a performance even close to the typical output from Berry.

Pretty hard when they don’t play. I’d argue Robertson’s final game when he kept Whitfield down to 10 odd disposals when he was averaging over 30 was better than Berry has ever produced as well.

Keays has become a great player at the crows once he got the opportunity.

If Sharp and Tunstill get a run at it and don’t show much they won’t be on list much longer as well. We’ve seen Berry’s best and it’s not premiership quality.

 

[Section 5]

Well Brayden Preuss has made an art form of this one. 28 games across 8 years in 3 different clubs on say an average AFL salary of 250-300k. Since Ruckman's prime years are around 28 to 32-33 (Preuss is 28), he could keep this gig going for another 5 years easy.

When drafted to North - "I look forward to learning under Goldstein"
When traded to Demons - "I look forward to learning under Gawn"
When traded to GWS - "I look forward to learning under Mumford"
If he scores another extension at GWS he might say "I look forward to learning under Kieren Briggs".

CODE Sports

CODE Sports

www.codesports.com.au

AFL is like any job.
You take what is best for you and your family.
Not many jobs out in the real world that pay that sort of money. Most likely he is on less but still good money.
If he is smart, he should be doing some study and life should be good to him and others in a similar situation after their footy career.

 

[jfn]

Just look at Jackson Hately

6

Jackson Hately

Age

23

Ht

191cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.8

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.4

3star

D

17.2

5star

K

8.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

's stats again. Hard to ignore. He's bound to be picked up again by a club.

Big body, right age to break out, originally a high draft pick so he can play, averaged 25 possessions in the SANFL, 85% disposal efficiency, average 7 tackles per game, top 10 in the Magarey Medal this year.

Could fill an inside role next year until Will is back. Who knows. He might hold a place in the team.

 

[Tom14]

Pretty hard when they don’t play. I’d argue Robertson’s final game when he kept Whitfield down to 10 odd disposals when he was averaging over 30 was better than Berry has ever produced as well.

Keays has become a great player at the crows once he got the opportunity.

If Sharp and Tunstill get a run at it and don’t show much they won’t be on list much longer as well. We’ve seen Berry’s best and it’s not premiership quality.

If nick robertsen was so good why did no club throw him a lifeline of a rookie spot? Remembering as well that he was delisted before Covid when clubs has more list spots to go around. As a total aside it’s a good thing nick was delisted prior to Covid because he sure had some ‘interesting’ opinions about it.

I can think of at least 10-15 games better than that one from Bez.

He made two bad mistakes on gf day, but also set up Charlie’s goal to put us ahead by spinning out of traffic and sending it deep inside 50.

 

[M Malice]

Just look at Jackson Hately's stats again. Hard to ignore. He's bound to be picked up again by a club.

Big body, right age to break out, originally a high draft pick so he can play, averaged 25 possessions in the SANFL, 85% disposal efficiency, average 7 tackles per game, top 10 in the Magarey Medal this year.

Could fill an inside role next year until Will is back. Who knows. He might hold a place in the team.

I have seen zero of him, sounds like a Josh Dunkley lite type player... is he quick over the ground ie. runs hard and effectively both ways?

 

[Dalions]

Pretty hard when they don’t play. I’d argue Robertson’s final game when he kept Whitfield down to 10 odd disposals when he was averaging over 30 was better than Berry has ever produced as well.

Keays has become a great player at the crows once he got the opportunity.

If Sharp and Tunstill get a run at it and don’t show much they won’t be on list much longer as well. We’ve seen Berry’s best and it’s not premiership quality.

We also need to remember that Lachie Whitfield had his appendix removed the next day.
So that job by Nick, whilst good on the day, was nothing really to write home about.
Jarrod Berry’s best is by far better than anything Nick ever produced.
Bez is the best winger we have on the list at the moment but it will not last forever and he will likely be pushed out at some point.
Hopefully Bez can have a full, injury free pre- season because he hasn’t had one for a while.

 

[jfn]

I have seen zero of him, sounds like a Josh Dunkley lite type player... is he quick over the ground ie. runs hard and effectively both ways?

Like you, I don't know a lot about him, other than his stats. He looks good on paper, but I'm sure there's some weaknesses there as well, otherwise he'd be a permanent at AFL level. Some players just have to find the right club for their talent.