List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[70s sainter]

No disagreement from me. He's as promising as any kid we've had in 20 years. He has elite qualities for sure.

Agree that Mitch is the most exciting player we’ve had in the last 20 years . Just trying to find a comparison to him from an afl star of the past . Who does he remind you of ? His size , his balance, hardness and the ability to stay upright. And his creativity.
Just trying to think of someone similar in the past

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah it's better to covet absolute spuds from other clubs like Constable & Dow while writing off our own blokes. Rose coloured glasses work both ways.

Collingwood horribly mismanaged their TPP & had to lose blokes that they didn't really want to lose. I can't remember them losing too many talented young players just because they suffered a serious injury.

Yes this is a list management discussion & we're discussing a player who is now rumoured to be looking elsewhere.

As for Billings... his extension is at barely above the league average.

Haven't seen anyone that covets guys like Dow or Constable. They would be nothing but depth with some potential left. Not even many even want them to be honest. If Billings goes it's because he thinks he can get more money and game time elsewhere. They lost guys like Stephenson who was looking like a potentially elite player at the time. Treloar and Grundy were hardly old either.

Collingwoods model is something we can't replicate. Most of their best talent is old and experienced. It will be difficult for them when their older guys are gone in a couple of years.

I agree though in principle, stockpiling talent is usually a better model than stripping right back.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree that Mitch is the most exciting player we’ve had in the last 20 years . Just trying to find a comparison to him from an afl star of the past . Who does he remind you of ? His size , his balance, hardness and the ability to stay upright. And his creativity.
Just trying to think of someone similar in the past

Probably in adaptability he's like Goodes. In actual game style maybe a Danger in the middle with his burst through using his momentum and bulk? He's a bit more agile though. He's pretty unique.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

30 years ago yes , not these days , most players get back to their best after an ACL

Why what are they doing better?

 

[sunny3193]

Interesting: GC#4 = #2 less the academy discount.
#2 will be where Jed Walter will be bid on, Harley Reid going #1.
GC will be looking to maximise their points gain in trading out #4.
Assuming they require, at a minimum, the discounted points of ~2000, what scenario might gain #4?

Gresham end of first round FA comp = #19 = 950,
Howard trade to Swans for their second = #22 = 850
Saints trade their third = #51 = 250.

GC get their required points.

The above is an EXAMPLE ONLY.
It is not definitive.
Play around with the numbers/players yourself.

But it is also not outside the realm of possibility.

So, wouldn’t the Club be remiss in not taking this chance?

Remembering that such a scenario would lock in the second or third best midfielder?

Currently either Duursma or McKercher according to Twomey.

Note: There’ll be another 16 clubs trying to get exactly the same advantage.

Fits stavro#4 scenario quite nicely.

 

[Lore]

So Dodo - seems like Essendon are more interested in angling for a higher draft compo pick instead of making a reasonable offer to one of its better players.

It's not Dodoro so much, he is more in the business of retaining good players at any cost because he drafted them and it's a boys club and so forth. The new regime seems to be a bit more objective about list development.

Anything you offer over 750 per year would qualify for a first round compensation pick. If we just wanted the pick, then we won't be matching as long as it's a first. In that case, you would think the 900k a year being thrown around in here is more dollars than sense, if you only need to offer 800k to get him.



I think actually that it's not that far apart between the club and the player anyway. The club is offering somewhere around the mark without automatic CBA increases built into the contract, and I think the ask from player and manager is roughly similar but either with CBA increases built in, or a higher overall salary to account for it.

I still expect him to stay, although a lot of Essendon fans would seemingly celebrate if he left, underrated as he is among our fans.

 

[Bertha]

Acres? Or were we too stupid to regret it?

Nah, I'm too stupid to regret it yet.

A regret would be Carlton trading Kennedy to WCE, that's what I call regret. Great to see Acres playing well, but when we played them I Houghton Wood was as good as Acres and we wouldn't have had both in the side and Wood has been more consistent for us than Acres was.

 

[Bertha]

Just watch every one of Clark, coffield and a criminally underrated Paton go on to play very good football with other teams while we have a bag of manic beans.

Sometimes that just the way it is. Not every player is a high end talent everywhere they go. Members played one game for Sydney, came across and made an immediate impact at St Kilda, Mason is another, delisted by North, frustrated North supporters but I think he's been a cracker ever since joining and has done nothing but continued to improve.

If players don't work in our system, Comme ci Comme ca, we have to get players that will even if that means letting go of players that go on with it elsewhere - no one wants to see a player struggle and languish in the twos when they could be playing seniors elsewhere in a system that suits then better

 

[HoudiniSaints11]

Geez we really do overrate some of our players as supporters. I agree with other posters we would be best served to cut our losses with Clarke and Coffield, for picks 6 and 7 they have been disappointing to say the least.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Why what are they doing better?

its called technology , back in the day you did your ACL you were cooked , now not many never get get back to their full potential

 

[beside the seaside]

Yeah it's better to covet absolute spuds from other clubs like Constable & Dow while writing off our own blokes. Rose coloured glasses work both ways.

Collingwood horribly mismanaged their TPP & had to lose blokes that they didn't really want to lose. I can't remember them losing too many talented young players just because they suffered a serious injury.

Yes this is a list management discussion & we're discussing a player who is now rumoured to be looking elsewhere.

As for Billings... his extension is at barely above the league average.

Again mate let me stress I want Coff to become a gun for us, but you label Dow an absolute spud, he is playing well in the most in form team in the comp right now whereas Coff is playing average footy in the VFL and hasn't played AFL footy since 2021.

 

[sunny3193]

It's not Dodoro so much, he is more in the business of retaining good players at any cost because he drafted them and it's a boys club and so forth. The new regime seems to be a bit more objective about list development.

Anything you offer over 750 per year would qualify for a first round compensation pick. If we just wanted the pick, then we won't be matching as long as it's a first. In that case, you would think the 900k a year being thrown around in here is more dollars than sense, if you only need to offer 800k to get him.



I think actually that it's not that far apart between the club and the player anyway. The club is offering somewhere around the mark without automatic CBA increases built into the contract, and I think the ask from player and manager is roughly similar but either with CBA increases built in, or a higher overall salary to account for it.

I still expect him to stay, although a lot of Essendon fans would seemingly celebrate if he left, underrated as he is among our fans.

Sorry to see the back of Josh Mahoney?

 

[Lore]

Sorry to see the back of Josh Mahoney?

not really sure. For a while there he was the only sane person in the joint. Might still be, I guess. Time will tell.

 

[Speck]

It's not Dodoro so much, he is more in the business of retaining good players at any cost because he drafted them and it's a boys club and so forth. The new regime seems to be a bit more objective about list development.

Anything you offer over 750 per year would qualify for a first round compensation pick. If we just wanted the pick, then we won't be matching as long as it's a first. In that case, you would think the 900k a year being thrown around in here is more dollars than sense, if you only need to offer 800k to get him.



I think actually that it's not that far apart between the club and the player anyway. The club is offering somewhere around the mark without automatic CBA increases built into the contract, and I think the ask from player and manager is roughly similar but either with CBA increases built in, or a higher overall salary to account for it.

I still expect him to stay, although a lot of Essendon fans would seemingly celebrate if he left, underrated as he is among our fans.

Thanks for posting the article here.

I don't think we have a hope in hell of honestly landing him, but if we did I'd expect to pay well overs as a 'small club tax'. I'd rather pay him $1m+ for a few years on a heavily front loaded deal to fill our cap than overpay others. We would need to edge out Geelong who seem to get anyone they want from that area for peanuts.

 

[Mr_R0b0t]

I'm confident that our football department is better in most ways at the moment but Gubby and Sos are my biggest concerns. They will make or break the club's chances with what they do over the next few seasons.

The club‘s brand in the league will make or break the club. They can only sign players if they want to come.

Are we a destination club?
Are we now relevant enough to attract players?
How do we compare to other clubs?
Then there’s the salary cap.

 

[CursingFijian]

Haven't seen anyone that covets guys like Dow or Constable. They would be nothing but depth with some potential left. Not even many even want them to be honest. If Billings goes it's because he thinks he can get more money and game time elsewhere. They lost guys like Stephenson who was looking like a potentially elite player at the time. Treloar and Grundy were hardly old either.

Collingwoods model is something we can't replicate. Most of their best talent is old and experienced. It will be difficult for them when their older guys are gone in a couple of years.

I agree though in principle, stockpiling talent is usually a better model than stripping right back.

Maybe we could go down the GWS and GC route and just trade out all our talent and stock pile draft picks.

Then we can give up on the premiership dream and just win the draft every year! It would be much more productive for us Saints fans. We could check out for the first 18 rounds and then reconvene from Round 20 through to the National draft night. Then we can spend all our time here slapping ourselves on the back right up until pre-season starts.

 

[StCicatriz]

i'll be shocked if coffield is anywhere but us next year

 

[StCicatriz]

'Are you staying at Freo?': Henry on his future

Andy Krakouer asks Liam Henry the big question about where he'll play next season

www.afl.com.au

Sounds like a thoughtful young man.

Will you be playing at Fremantle next year?

I know there's a lot of interest in my career, but at the end of the day I'm trying to play these last two weeks and hopefully I get to make that decision sooner or later.

Goneski.

100% gone and i reckon it's too us

 

[DougalHoward]

100% gone and i reckon it's too us

Brad Hill's long term replacement?

on the main board they say he's going to the dogs

 

[SaintsSeptember]

its called technology , back in the day you did your ACL you were cooked , now not many never get get back to their full potential

Not sure what "the day" was , its been a long time since ACL surgery started getting used for sport. Its been 40 years since LARS was introduced.

This lot recommend trying to heal the ligament, but the timing probably isn't good for athletes.

The Long-Term Effects of ACL Reconstruction Surgery - Regenexx

ACL surgery is considered by some to be a rite of passage. But the long-term effects of an ACL tear without surgery are better.

regenexx.com

 

[StCicatriz]

the only thing to take away from the media reports is there is a significant list re-alignment going on. way i read it is, unless you're a KPP or can play as an effective mid then you're on the table.

they're going to be prepared to take risks to re-align the list. we are not going to get something from nothing and will have to make some hard calls to get some draft/trade currency in.

moving on howard makes sense IMO even with a priority on KPP talent.

i'd move on all of Howard, Clarke, Billings, Gresham, Membrey & Paton. Membrey the only one who probably doesnt have currency. i'd maybe look at retaining Jones and McKenzie on the rookie list. with the idea that maybe we can get McKenzie right but also try to re-educate Jones into a small defender. i'd hold coffield.

i know that's alot of players but i think we need to be bold and really re-align the list. get a mixture of future and current picks.

i'd try grab Dow and Lycett if we can. both will be cheap. Flanders obviously but i think that ships sailed. i'm not sold on Henry.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Brad Hill's long term replacement?

on the main board they say he's going to the dogs

Whipping boy?

 

[DougalHoward]

Whipping boy?

Winger

 

[Diehard Saint]

Probably in adaptability he's like Goodes. In actual game style maybe a Danger in the middle with his burst through using his momentum and bulk? He's a bit more agile though. He's pretty unique.

In years to come they’ll be saying about a draftee…
he’s going to be like Mitch Owens..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Again mate let me stress I want Coff to become a gun for us, but you label Dow an absolute spud, he is playing well in the most in form team in the comp right now whereas Coff is playing average footy in the VFL and hasn't played AFL footy since 2021.

You don't think finding some form in the VFL is valid after 2 years out? Is it 2 games he's played?