Preview 2024 AFL Season, Round 21; St Kilda Saints v Paddle Pop Bears, Marvel Stadium, Sunday 4th August 4;40pm

[luca77]

Suns have 2 away games, so hard to say. They have been dreadful away.

Yeah, but Bombers are garbage, Tiges are cooked and the Dees game is at home so I'm confident in my crystal ball work.

 

[akaifu]

Nas is a HBF in my eyes, I'd like him to stay there.. Byrnes isn't a long term mid prospect, would love to get Owens on the ball more often but we have all been vocal about that, would like to start giving Wilson a few little runs at it as he has the strength/power/disposal/running capacity to eventually move into that role. The main question mark is on his contested game. He played mid in the juniors

"Wilson would show off his running and attracting traits at the National Championships as well, booting multiple majors in two of his four appearances for Vic Country to complement the likes of Harley Reid and Zane Duursma in the middle as part of an aggressive midfield ensemble."

Ultimately I'm always right so if I was you i'd just get on board now before you become the next cairnsman (pre face turn)

Yes, against fellow 18 year olds. AFL level is a completely different story, he'll need at least a few pre-seasons before he can have that description in the AFL. As I said before, if you want to draw comparisons, compare with what Carlton did at the start of the season with Ollie Hollands. They had the same enthusiasm for him as you do for Wilson as a mid but he got crushed every time he was at a stoppage and his running power didn't help him at all because of how severe his deficiencies were.

 

[gringo2011]

Ok cards on the table time.

I don't want to win tomorrow. We go 6 up on Adelaide and actually go past GC on %.

Even if we got band 1 for Battle (if he goes, reports he doesn't) it will be 6 and 7, if not one frdp at 6.
This is getting serious. Yes winning like against Sydney and killing Essendon is great and good for the players and morale, etc, however one mid top 10 draft in an even draft is not going to propel us up the charts.
We need pick 4 or 5 at the very worst not 6 or 7.

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That said even means that the difference between pick 5 and 12 probably isn't as drastic as normal. The premium mids seem to be in the top 6 or 7 though so ideally stay down but even then maybe a guy like Gross ends up an A grade mid.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Yes, against fellow 18 year olds. AFL level is a completely different story, he'll need at least a few pre-seasons before he can have that description in the AFL. As I said before, if you want to draw comparisons, compare with what Carlton did at the start of the season with Ollie Hollands. They had the same enthusiasm for him as you do for Wilson as a mid but he got crushed every time he was at a stoppage and his running power didn't help him at all because of how severe his deficiencies were.

haha, I didn't say he was going to draw that description, in fact I've pretty clearly said the opposite. And I don't care for your ollie hollands comparison, you keep coming up with this "throw him to the wolves" concept in your mind. Not once have I said that, again, I've said the opposite. Late in the 2nd quarter, 5 minutes to go, our midfield looking sluggish, give wilson a run on ball to help with our link up play in the corridor and help us getting numbers to the contest.

That's it.

Stop moving the goal posts. Not replying to your bad faith replies

 

[Train12]

Yawn.

Stocker is filling a role as the team tagger with Windy and Ross out.

Also with Crouch close to retiring, let's see if a player drafted as a midfielder has a future there.

Man, your post sucks. I can't stress that enough.

Agreed!!

 

[hayes]

Yawn.

Stocker is filling a role as the team tagger with Windy and Ross out.

Also with Crouch close to retiring, let's see if a player drafted as a midfielder has a future there.

Man, your post sucks. I can't stress that enough.

Best case scenario for him is another slow/boring accumulator type mid which is the kind of mid that nobody wants. Don’t think that’s something we should be investing in. I can live with him as a run with but if Windhager comes back he should be back at Sandy. I was a fan of his at the start but the more he plays the more you see there’s really nothing special about his game.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Absolutely not. Winning is what we want. Culcha

 

[akaifu]

haha, I didn't say he was going to draw that description, in fact I've pretty clearly said the opposite. And I don't care for your ollie hollands comparison, you keep coming up with this "throw him to the wolves" concept in your mind. Not once have I said that, again, I've said the opposite. Late in the 2nd quarter, 5 minutes to go, our midfield looking sluggish, give wilson a run on ball to help with our link up play in the corridor and help us getting numbers to the contest.

That's it.

Stop moving the goal posts. Not replying to your bad faith replies

I mean I can sook about your responses too and be sad that someone disagrees with me but I'm just trying to engage in discussion. I just don't see any point in playing him in the midfield at all at this stage given his attributes and the other players in the side, and clearly the coaches don't see it too. We are one of the fittest teams in the AFL, there's never been a need to refresh the midfield late in a quarter, and even then, it's been Henry/Nas who've moved inside when required. It's better to develop the kids who are actually ready for midfield minutes rather than him

 

[austinnn]

Absolutely not. Winning is what we want. Culcha

You are absolutely right in general, and what you said is even more true when picks 1-20 are so even in the National Draft this year.

Winning and losing are habits. We need to see what works and what doesn't and train what works, and as RTB says, results are feedback.

 

[CaptainRisky]

You're not considering the opportunity cost. 5 minutes of midfield for Wilson robs Nas of 5 minutes, or Byrnes of 5 minutes, or someone else of 5 minutes - all of whom are way more prepared for midfield minutes than him. Its the same situation as Owens - you know the player is currently playing well in their current role and that they will be no better in the mids because their attributes don't line up, so there is no point in robbing them and others of that 5 minutes of development

Well that's a good thing if it keeps Byrnes out of the guts, you don't seriously think he is a mid do you

 

[akaifu]

Well that's a good thing if it keeps Byrnes out of the guts, you don't seriously think he is a mid do you

I don't think he'll be a star mid but he has attributes to play mid and a mature body that can stand up against AFL midfielders, more so than Wilson at the moment. I still prefer him on a wing, but the coaches did play around with Byrnes inside mid early in the season

 

[Joffaboy]

That said even means that the difference between pick 5 and 12 probably isn't as drastic as normal. The premium mids seem to be in the top 6 or 7 though so ideally stay down but even then maybe a guy like Gross ends up an A grade mid.

yeah, the shiney new toys @ 4 and 5 seem disaapointing nor it will probably be one pick at 6 or 7, until I see Battle down back for us again.

 

[Sully111]

Wilson isn't ready for the midfield imo.

He's had a good first year but there's a lot to work on.

His decision making at times is very poor.

 

[akaifu]

Wilson isn't ready for the midfield imo.

He's had a good first year but there's a lot to work on.

His decision making at times is very poor.

Yep, and he still doesn't know how to use his speed to its full potential. We never see him run with the ball, he always hands it off to others. Don't even get me started on his lack of contest ability and physical size. Silly how adamant some people are about him needing to play any sort of midfield minutes at this point.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

and clearly the coaches don't see it too

95% of the opinions on here in regards to how we should play or who should play where are not consistent with our current coaches, if they were we wouldn't be talking about it. "I think they should play rowan marshal in the ruck!!!", said no one ever. Sending Pou to sandy was popular about 3 weeks before he got dropped. Playing cooper as a permanent forward another, dropping bonner, dropping ross, the list is endless. Just because coaches haven't acted on something doesn't mean it's not a viable idea.

And I'm not having a sook, you are strawmannirg my position, making it sound like I want to play Wilson in the midfield full time or when the whips are cracking, which isn't what I said. I.e., you're wasting my time

the main reason I feel this way is because I don't think wilson is a natural winger

 

[akaifu]

95% of the opinions on here in regards to how we should play or who should play where are not consistent with our current coaches, if they were we wouldn't be talking about it. "I think they should play rowan marshal in the ruck!!!", said no one ever. Sending Pou to sandy was popular about 3 weeks before he got dropped. Playing cooper as a permanent forward another, dropping bonner, dropping ross, the list is endless. Just because coaches haven't acted on something doesn't mean it's not a viable idea.

And I'm not having a sook, you are strawmannirg my position, making it sound like I want to play Wilson in the midfield full time or when the whips are cracking, which isn't what I said. I.e., you're wasting my time

the main reason I feel this way is because I don't think wilson is a natural winger

Even if you ignore the coaches argument, I've listed like 3+ other reasons why he shouldn't play ANY midfield minutes at this stage

1. Not ready physically - no sort of midfield minutes will help him develop his physical attributes
2. Too many mouths to feed - already experimenting with Nas; along with Steele, Sinc, Pou, Clark/Dow, Jones, Stocker, Windy when he's back
3. Already developing a different position - he's not a natural forward, so he's already working on a new position which is small forward. If you try to task him with too many different ideas and roles, its so easy for an inexperienced kid to get overwhelmed and drop their performances. Let him focus on refining his forward craft, then when he's confident in there, consider trialling him in a different role

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Even if you ignore the coaches argument, I've listed like 3+ other reasons why he shouldn't play ANY midfield minutes at this stage

1. Not ready physically - no sort of midfield minutes will help him develop his physical attributes
2. Too many mouths to feed - already experimenting with Nas; along with Steele, Sinc, Pou, Clark/Dow, Jones, Stocker, Windy when he's back
3. Already developing a different position - he's not a natural forward, so he's already working on a new position which is small forward. If you try to task him with too many different ideas and roles, its so easy for an inexperienced kid to get overwhelmed and drop their performances. Let him focus on refining his forward craft, then when he's confident in there, consider trialling him in a different role

sure, i disagree. I think he's a mid that can rest forward and think we should start prepping him as one. To my eye his running/endurance strengths are found in getting from contest to contest, gut running, not running with the pill ala hill. We don't need him to be a winger, we need an on ball unit and we should develop him with that in mind.

Nas isn't playing in the midfield chief, and as I said, a couple of 5 minutes of on ball time in a game over jones/stocker/windy aint gonna destroy their own progress. Stocker is tagging for starters, as was windy (not sure windy will make it as a non tagging mid just yet, some ball pig time at sandy could do him well). Jones is in the twilight of his career, using him as a "mouths to feed" argmument doesn't stack up. Dow... firstly they'd play different positions, and secondly not sold on dow, would happily sacrifice 5 of his minutes a game if it meant giving wilson a look in

The whole not ready physically doesn't cut it for me, he's not a twig and is already playing senior footy, laying tackles, getting tackled. Obviously he'll get bigger and stronger, but that doesn't mean you can't start an apprenticeship. Pou isn't ready physically either, but we persisted.

I don't expect Darcy to take the world by storm, but long term he would help our team a lot more as an on baller than a wing/half forward. We need midfield RnD, a little invested in Wilson, a bit more invested in Owens, Pou obviously, etc

 

[akaifu]

sure, i disagree. I think he's a mid that can rest forward and think we should start prepping him as one. To my eye his running/endurance strengths are found in getting from contest to contest, gut running, not running with the pill ala hill. We don't need him to be a winger, we need an on ball unit and we should develop him with that in mind.

Nas isn't playing in the midfield chief, and as I said, a couple of 5 minutes of on ball time in a game over jones/stocker/windy aint gonna destroy their own progress. Stocker is tagging for starters, as was windy (not sure windy will make it as a non tagging mid just yet, some ball pig time at sandy could do him well). Jones is in the twilight of his career, using him as a "mouths to feed" argmument doesn't stack up. Dow... firstly they'd play different positions, and secondly not sold on dow, would happily sacrifice 5 of his minutes a game if it meant giving wilson a look in

The whole not ready physically doesn't cut it for me, he's not a twig and is already playing senior footy, laying tackles, getting tackled. Obviously he'll get bigger and stronger, but that doesn't mean you can't start an apprenticeship. Pou isn't ready physically either, but we persisted.

I don't expect Darcy to take the world by storm, but long term he would help our team a lot more as an on baller than a wing/half forward. We need midfield RnD, a little invested in Wilson, a bit more invested in Owens, Pou obviously, etc

I agree with your general point which is Wilson should be a midfielder in the long-term, and maybe after another pre-season to bulk up, he'll start having runs through there

Nas had 30% cbas against the Eagles, the coaches are definitely starting to consider giving him more midfield time. That is not my opinion, that is a proven fact

Stocker is tagging because there could be a future for him in the midfield - he was drafted as a midfielder in the first place. If there was no hope for him in the mids, he wouldn't be playing any role in the guts. Dow and Wilson would both be medium sized mids, not sure what other position you'd expect him to be playing

 

[Simon Templar]

Ok cards on the table time.

I don't want to win tomorrow. We go 6 up on Adelaide and actually go past GC on %.

Even if we got band 1 for Battle (if he goes, reports he doesn't) it will be 6 and 7, if not one frdp at 6.
This is getting serious. Yes winning like against Sydney and killing Essendon is great and good for the players and morale, etc, however one mid top 10 draft in an even draft is not going to propel us up the charts.
We need pick 4 or 5 at the very worst not 6 or 7.

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Personally I can never want a Saints loss... best I can muster is to know if we lose there is an upside. My cards on the table... I don't give a toss if we get pick 5 or 6 or 17 or 18... it's lucky dip most of the time anyway.

One more thing... I can not fathom a team supporter wanting their team to lose for the sake of ...a maybe a better draft pick. F*ck that.

 

[Bushy70]

The way things are shaping up (according to my ladder predicter) we may be able to put Carlton out of finals contention in round 24 and ensure Geelong an away elimination final against Port in round 23..

Not a bad years work… Ending Essendon and Carlton’s seasons plus making life tough for the Cats..

Go Sainters!

 

[StFly]

Game Day - AFL 2024 Season, Round 21: St Kilda Saints v Brisbane Lions, Sunday 4th August 4:40pm Marvel Stadium

https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/6072 With congrats to Mitch on his 50th game for us, it shall summarily be overshadowed on telecast for Lesters 200th for them, as this is the way, no positive news cycles on game day, nope. We finalised the two in 2 out with Hunter missing due to injury and...

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