Official Club Stuff 2024 AGM - to be held on Friday 6th December 2024, 1 director to be elected by members. Nominations called for.

[simba_]

how can the list be already peaking when the vast majority of our best players haven't even hit 25 yet.

Our list last peaked around 2020-21 but we failed to deliver a flag with that list. A lot of the key drivers of that list are no longer around.

because we chopped and changed the list

they literally told us in presentations they expected us to be peaking right now, they just thought Hinkley, Boak, Wines, Dixon were way better than they are so they change the goalposts again, in 2027 you will be saying the same stuff after they get rid of Butters and Georgiadis and have to re-tool again

 

[El_Scorcho]

No matter how many times you compare an AFL side winning the flag to the Socceroos winning the World Cup as being equal it won't make it right.

The obvious Victorian bias aside, there are systems in place that give all AFL clubs enough opportunities to claim a premiership if they really want it. And the systems also allow you to go from rock bottom to a flag in fairly quick time with the right people involved.

It is not at all comparable to the Socceroos, i think there could be some talent pool issues there compared to other countries, they aren't all selecting from the same draft with the players earning the same income as other countries.

To suggest Port see the flag as a similar pipe dream to the Socceroos winning the World Cup is simply wrong.

He didn't say that Port winning a flag is the equivalent of the Socceroos winning the world cup, he said that the club behaves like it has the same sort of chance. That just "doing well" is success.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The club aims to be around the mark, so that's what they achieve. We win regular season games, but we have literally zero chance of winning a flag under this philosophy. We aren't ruthless enough, we won't have the mettle when it counts, we won't stand up and take our chance.

It'd be like Kipchoge trying to crack 2 hours in the marathon by utilising pacers that are running too slow and then claiming at the end that it's a pretty good time anyway and claiming success.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

because we chopped and changed the list

they literally told us in presentations they expected us to be peaking right now, they just thought Hinkley, Boak, Wines, Dixon were way better than they are so they change the goalposts again, in 2027 you will be saying the same stuff after they get rid of Butters and Georgiadis and have to re-tool again

Build the best under 23 squad in the league was the mantra in 2019.

Seems like they aren't as interested in building the best 26 to 30 year old squad in the league.

 

[JimmyBC]

The club aims to be around the mark, so that's what they achieve. We win regular season games, but we have literally zero chance of winning a flag under this philosophy. We aren't ruthless enough, we won't have the mettle when it counts, we won't stand up and take our chance.

It'd be like Kipchoge trying to crack 2 hours in the marathon by utilising pacers that are running too slow and then claiming at the end that it's a pretty good time anyway and claiming success.

It bleeds into all areas when you just don't take the hard line, Dixon staying well past his use by date and Boak trundling around again signify weak decision makers as much as anything else. This crew would've kept Che Cockatoo Collins on the list for another three years after 2003.

 

[PowerLil]

I laughed when Dixon didn't retire end of '22 let alone '23.

 

[Willsy10]

He didn't say that Port winning a flag is the equivalent of the Socceroos winning the world cup, he said that the club behaves like it has the same sort of chance. That just "doing well" is success.

The Socceroos are rubbish though, they don’t even do well and it’s street parties and parades for just scoring a goal at the World Cup. In an AFL landscape no one would equate what they do as success. At the end of the day we finished 3rd in an 18 team comp and I don’t think anyone is particularly happy with that. I’m not really noticing this celebration everyone is talking about. They were happy with the financials but that’s a separate issue.


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[Launchpad McQuack]

The Socceroos are rubbish though, they don’t even do well and it’s street parties and parades for just scoring a goal at the World Cup. In an AFL landscape no one would equate what they do as success. At the end of the day we finished 3rd in an 18 team comp and I don’t think anyone is particularly happy with that. I’m not really noticing this celebration everyone is talking about. They were happy with the financials but that’s a separate issue.


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Fans aren't happy. The club is absolutely happy. There being no actual plan or expectation to follow through with the Chasing Greatness goals should demonstrate they are content with just qualifying for the World Cup (read: AFL finals).

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Build the best under 23 squad in the league was the mantra in 2019.

Seems like they aren't as interested in building the best 26 to 30 year old squad in the league.

They build the squad like I used to do it in Championship Manager.

They just forget that in the AFL you can't onsell the players for profit once developed and keep building that way.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TeeKray]

The whole obsession over talent and list management is another part of the problem. No focus on improving coaching and definitely no focus on building a culture of elite standards, high performance and a winning mentality.

On the latter point, they would think they are building such a thing but none of them have any idea what that actually looks like. I'd love to get Darren Cahill in a paid role with permission to turn this whole shitshow on its head but that will never happen.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

The whole obsession over talent and list management is another part of the problem. No focus on improving coaching and definitely no focus on building a culture of elite standards, high performance and a winning mentality.

On the latter point, they would think they are building such a thing but none of them have any idea what that actually looks like. I'd love to get Darren Cahill in a paid role with permission to turn this whole shitshow on its head but that will never happen.

We need a coach that can look at this playing group and say you guys are enough if you can reach potential. Instill that belief. Instead they're constantly told they're a good group not a great group and we need to get one more piece to the puzzle.

Its a bit tainted now with all the drugcheating but this was Bomber Thompson's approach at Geelong when Ben Cousins was being discussed as a target for the Cats. That they needed to stop waiting for a saviour and get it done themselves. They went on to win 3 of the next 5 flags.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

The 3 flags in 5 years goal included SANFL and AFLW too so whilst it was still highly ambitious i think a lot of people failed to read that fine print and still to this day think of it as 3 AFL flags in 5 years.

Brisbane have achieved 3 in 5 years on this basis, with 1 AFL and 2 AFLW. Crows got 3 AFLW flags between 2017-2022.

They probably should've just said 1 AFL Flag, as that is the only one that really matters.

We didn't get close to any flags at all period. Even if we'd targeted 1 SANFL flag we still fell short.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

No matter how many times you compare an AFL side winning the flag to the Socceroos winning the World Cup as being equal it won't make it right.

The obvious Victorian bias aside, there are systems in place that give all AFL clubs enough opportunities to claim a premiership if they really want it. And the systems also allow you to go from rock bottom to a flag in fairly quick time with the right people involved.

It is not at all comparable to the Socceroos, i think there could be some talent pool issues there compared to other countries, they aren't all selecting from the same draft with the players earning the same income as other countries.

To suggest Port see the flag as a similar pipe dream to the Socceroos winning the World Cup is simply wrong.

You're 100% correct right up until your last sentence.

The entire point is that winning a premiership (or at least making a GF) in a small league with massive equalisation measures is totally achievable. Our club don't see it as such because they are weak and terrified of failure.

 

[RossFC]

The 3 flags in 5 years goal included SANFL and AFLW too so whilst it was still highly ambitious i think a lot of people failed to read that fine print and still to this day think of it as 3 AFL flags in 5 years.

Brisbane have achieved 3 in 5 years on this basis, with 1 AFL and 2 AFLW. Crows got 3 AFLW flags between 2017-2022.

They probably should've just said 1 AFL Flag, as that is the only one that really matters.

I deffs read the fine print. I would have been happy with 1 SANFL flag. Instead I got a wooden spoon. Thanks Port.

 

[Willsy10]

We didn't get close to any flags at all period. Even if we'd targeted 1 SANFL flag we still fell short.

I never said we did get close. But now that you've mentioned it i would say 3 prelims is getting close. If it isn't close than only the losing grand finalist is close?

But the main point i was making is that most people seem to think it is 3 AFL flags in 5 years. It was never that.

the other point is that in my belief even if we won 3 SANFL or AFLW flags it would've meant we still failed because the ultimate goal is to win an AFL flag.

 

[TeeKray]

I never said we did get close. But now that you've mentioned it i would say 3 prelims is getting close. If it isn't close than only the losing grand finalist is close?

But the main point i was making is that most people seem to think it is 3 AFL flags in 5 years. It was never that.

the other point is that in my belief even if we won 3 SANFL or AFLW flags it would've meant we still failed because the ultimate goal is to win an AFL flag.

I've always been under the impression it was 3 across the 3 teams as well, I was only debating the 3 AFL flags thing because everyone else was. But really, the 3 across 3 teams thing actually makes it look like even worse a failure. And although I accept the AFLW team is a startup team and the SANFL team is a development team operating with two hands tied behind its back, I wasn't the one who set the goal, they were.

2021 AFL
2021 SANFL

2022 AFL
2022 SANFL
2022 AFLW

2023 AFL
2023 SANFL
2023 AFLW

2024 AFL
2024 SANFL
2024 AFLW

2025 AFL
2025 SANFL
2025 AFLW

So we've burned through 11 of the 14 opportunities in the Chasing Greatness window. All 3 teams would have to win the premiership next year to achieve par on the Chasing Greatness strategy. And given no Port Adelaide team has won a premiership in over 20 years, that feels a little unlikely.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I never said we did get close. But now that you've mentioned it i would say 3 prelims is getting close. If it isn't close than only the losing grand finalist is close?

But the main point i was making is that most people seem to think it is 3 AFL flags in 5 years. It was never that.

the other point is that in my belief even if we won 3 SANFL or AFLW flags it would've meant we still failed because the ultimate goal is to win an AFL flag.

Its not though. With Hinkley at the helm we could make another 100 prelims and wouldn't win a flag because we have a loser mentality at our core.

 

[Willsy10]

I've always been under the impression it was 3 across the 3 teams as well, I was only debating the 3 AFL flags thing because everyone else was. But really, the 3 across 3 teams thing actually makes it look like even worse a failure. And although I accept the AFLW team is a startup team and the SANFL team is a development team operating with two hands tied behind its back, I wasn't the one who set the goal, they were.

2021 AFL
2021 SANFL

2022 AFL
2022 SANFL
2022 AFLW

2023 AFL
2023 SANFL
2023 AFLW

2024 AFL
2024 SANFL
2024 AFLW

2025 AFL
2025 SANFL
2025 AFLW

So we've burned through 11 of the 14 opportunities in the Chasing Greatness window. All 3 teams would have to win the premiership next year to achieve par on the Chasing Greatness strategy. And given no Port Adelaide team has won a premiership in over 20 years, that feels a little unlikely.

yes i agree

 

[Willsy10]

Its not though. With Hinkley at the helm we could make another 100 prelims and wouldn't win a flag because we have a loser mentality at our core.

What's close to winning a premiership then, St Kilda 2009-2010? Does it have to be the closest any team has been to a flag without actually winning one in arguably the entire history of the game to be considered close, or does the fact that they had Ross Lyon as coach who has also never won a flag mean that they were never actually close to begin with due to the loser mentality at their core?

 

[EskimoPAFC]

What's close to winning a premiership then, St Kilda 2009-2010? Does it have to be the closest any team has been to a flag without actually winning one in arguably the entire history of the game to be considered close, or does the fact that they had Ross Lyon as coach who has also never won a flag mean that they were never actually close to begin with due to the loser mentality at their core?

Ross Lyon is definitely not perfect, but nowhere near Hinkley:

Ross Lyon hails Freo's powerful response to 'anywhere, anytime' challenge

Fremantle coach thrilled by win over Cats but wary of getting carried away

www.fremantlefc.com.au

FREMANTLE coach Ross Lyon has described the Dockers' 15-point win over Geelong at Simonds Stadium as "a powerful response to a great challenge".

But he didn't get carried away with the win, saying it only gave his side a valuable preliminary final at home and no more.

"We want to be an 'anywhere, anytime' team and this is a significant challenge and they got it done today," Lyon said.

 

[Scodges]

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I deffs read the fine print. I would have been happy with SANFL flag. Instead I got a wooden spoon. Thanks Port.

I reckon we’ll go well next year, a more balanced squad.


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[Cheesey Mac]

Its not though. With Hinkley at the helm we could make another 100 prelims and wouldn't win a flag because we have a loser mentality at our core.

Yep, when the stated goal is to win a premiership close enough isn't good enough. The mentality on show from CD and Richardson is very much near enough is good enough.

You either win the flag or you've failed. If you've failed you can still have had a good year, but you can't say it has been a successful year.

 

[PowerLil]

Yep, when the stated goal is to win a premiership close enough isn't good enough. The mentality on show from CD and Richardson is very much near enough is good enough.

You either win the flag or you've failed. If you've failed you can still have had a good year, but you can't say it has been a successful year.

Cheesey Mac I saw the graphic with my own eyes (as did you) and listened to Davies speak and I still can't believe it. I was thinking to myself "What the actual ****"

 

[El_Scorcho]

The Socceroos are rubbish though, they don’t even do well and it’s street parties and parades for just scoring a goal at the World Cup. In an AFL landscape no one would equate what they do as success. At the end of the day we finished 3rd in an 18 team comp and I don’t think anyone is particularly happy with that. I’m not really noticing this celebration everyone is talking about. They were happy with the financials but that’s a separate issue.

Again, you're missing the point. He didn't say it was equivalent or that Port are rubbish or that we have comparatively the same chance of winning the competition, he said the club behaves like an also-ran in everything they do, so we are an also-ran.

The club have called 2024 a successful year. They've been calling our results "success" for years. Ollie Wines called 2021 a "successful year" mere days after we got annihilated by 12 goals in a home prelim. Koch said that the club aims to make finals. It's fine to go skiing a few weeks out from the first preseason game. Hinkley "wouldn't have changed a thing" about the preparation for our 2021 prelim. The only change to a key decision maker change we've made in a decade is the succession of KT to Richo, an internal hire, and the moving on of Bassett. They say that they're disappointed with finals results to placate the increasingly pissed off supporter base, but not disappointed enough for a single head to roll apart from Nathan Bassett in the Koch era.

They don't give a **** about the fact that they haven't won a flag. They aren't hurting like we are.

 

[El_Scorcho]

What's close to winning a premiership then, St Kilda 2009-2010? Does it have to be the closest any team has been to a flag without actually winning one in arguably the entire history of the game to be considered close, or does the fact that they had Ross Lyon as coach who has also never won a flag mean that they were never actually close to begin with due to the loser mentality at their core?

Being "close" by reaching a prelim doesn't mean achieving a flag is actually possible under our current setup.

If I have a 9L bucket i'm "close" to being able to carry 10L of water.

For Port to win a flag we need a fundamental change in philosophy at every level of the club. We can have the best list in the league but a great list will never overcome the fact that eventually we'll come up against a team who are better drilled, mentally tougher, with higher standards, a better gameplan, who have sacrificed more and believe more than we do.