Coach 2024 Coaching

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Marshall an average ruckman or a good ruckman working with an average midfield?

Midfield average or a good midfield working with an average ruckman?

Midfield coach average or a good midfield coach working with an average midfield?

Midfield average or a good midfield working with an average midfield coach?

So many questions.
 
Dr Spaceman said:
Marshall an average ruckman or a good ruckman working with an average midfield?

Midfield average or a good midfield working with an average ruckman?

Midfield coach average or a good midfield coach working with an average midfield?

Midfield average or a good midfield working with an average midfield coach?

So many questions.
Click to expand...
A dumb ruckman roving the ruck battle, 50/50 blind munts upfield or scruffy handpasses to a slow scrappy midfield whose line coach is inexperienced and unproven. We chase the ball in numbers to if we get it we move it well, but leave holes everywhere so any turnover usually costs us an opposition forward entry and unfortunately there are plenty of careless turnovers in our midfield.
 
Dr Spaceman said:
Marshall an average ruckman or a good ruckman working with an average midfield?

Midfield average or a good midfield working with an average ruckman?

Midfield coach average or a good midfield coach working with an average midfield?

Midfield average or a good midfield working with an average midfield coach?

So many questions.
Click to expand...


I'd say he's similar to English at the Dogs in that his best work is as an extra midfielder rather than a good tap ruckman. Dogs have multiple recognised elite mids to feed off sharked taps as well. Without Crouch we are Steele and Windhager with guys like Ross feeding through. It looks pretty average.
 

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I don't think Ross or the other coaches are asking the guys to miss 2m handballs up the wing, kick skyballs forward or miss 20m passes in the back half.

We've been making personnel changes during the game, but I'd like to see some changes before the game. Seb played a full game in the middle for 14-15 touches. I think we need to move on from him and just give the midfield minutes to some of the younger guys. (I know Seb can play the defensive midfield role but we're farking trash so we can stop with that)

I love that Windy is getting a proper run in the middle. He's just an animal and given more time I think he will flourish (said before I think he can be our LDU type).

I'm not sure if Owens will be a full time mid, but id love to see us try. Him and Windy are both just competitive and contested animals. The amount of times they just win a 50/50 or stop the ball from getting out is incredible.

The sad thing is I don't know who our other young options are for the midfield minutes. Phillipou got a chance all season and just failed to get near it, really hope he can find an extra yard or two of pace or else it might be another Billings type for us.

Hope we persist with Garcia, I like what I see.

What other guy guys can we try in the middle?

Can we try Nas in there just for some pace?
 
Dr Spaceman said:
Marshall an average ruckman or a good ruckman working with an average midfield?

Midfield average or a good midfield working with an average ruckman?

Midfield coach average or a good midfield coach working with an average midfield?

Midfield average or a good midfield working with an average midfield coach?

So many questions.
Click to expand...
Marshall = average, a ruckman that can’t win taps regularly.. he is more stuck rover, basically losing the ruck, then go and tackle the opposition mids who got the tap.. or rips it out of the ruck and blind kick forward.

Midfield = Poor, bottom 4 in AFL (Only had Steele and Crouch are quality mids)
Midfield coach = Questionable
 
www.afl.com.au

Nine things we learned: This Bulldog's role change has worked wonders

A veteran Lion is charging towards another contract, a Bulldogs move has proven to be a winner plus more round 10 lessons
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

5) These two are helping to re-shape the ruck role

Luke Jackson and Rowan Marshall are in the top handful of rucks in the competition (even if Jackson is set to spend more time forward when Sean Darcy returns next week) and the pair went head-to-head in an entertaining battle on Saturday night. The numbers they put up were astounding; Marshall topped the entire field for disposals with 31 while also recording 39 hitouts, eight clearances and 366m gained. Jackson also finished with 39 hitouts, 25 touches and 10 clearances (the most of any player on the ground), although he only had 56m gained. Both rucks are among a group who are increasingly willing to grab the ball from the contest themselves rather than simply tapping it to the smaller men at their feet, with Marshall preferring to boot it as quickly as possible and Jackson (22 handballs) leaning towards using quick hands to a teammate – Sarah Black.


I am starting to see a method in the madness with the way we play footy, and why Rowan Marshall is lauded in a hopeless team that is played off the park every week.

I watched Marshall in stoppages against Walyalup this weekend; many times I thought I was watching the same one on repeat - Jackson and Marshall jump to collect the ball, Marshall grabs it, wheels off to his left in heaps of space, lamps it as far as he can blindly, it gets marked by a Dockers defender and comes back through the corridor in a matter of seconds, with mixed results. A rare variation is that instead of a Docker defender marking it clearly, there is a contest with varying results.

Some might ask themselves why opposition teams are letting Marshall grab that much of the ball from stoppages. You and I know it's because he will be the surest method of getting it into their hands with his chaos-ball methods.

Up until recently, i naively imagined this was simply Marshall being the world's dumbest footballer. I now understand that this happens so regularly that it's all part of the plan.

I'm guessing what most of you probably already realised: that Lyon and his assistants have such little faith in our midfield players that they are looking to avoid playing through them as much as possible.

Marshall's job at each centre bounce is essentially to transfer the centre bounce about 50m closer to our goal. Let our forwards win the ball and score immediately :grinning::laughing::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::sleepy:or give the Uberdefence (unused mids and defenders) time to set up to defend the ball coming out of our forward line. We rush onto the oncoming ball, create a scrap, scoop up the turnover, belt it forward, and keep repeating.

Jurgen Klopp did the same thing (with much more success) with Liverpool when he realised that his midfielders were the team's weakest link. He had two fantastic passers on either flank, so he got the team to give them the ball whenever they could and they or the central defender would often play long balls directly to the devastating forwards and the mids were mostly used to chase down opposition advances and win the ball back.

Will it work for St Kilda?

Max gets mounted regularly by his man and gets free kicks or doesn't. The crumbers occasionally mop up incoming bombs - and this is probably the area where Jade Gresham is most missed - and last year Owens was like a forward line Paddy Cripps, making directly or smashing into contexts. In a few years Phillipou could be doing the same.

I don't know if it will ever be more effective, but I'm really not a fan of this way. However until we get a more reliable midfield or a more reliable traditional ruckman, it's probably playing to our strengths in theory. I don't know what else they could do. It's pretty dynamic I guess, probably what Ross imagines fast and dynamic football to be. His assistants must have come up with this, but I don't know if our players can pull it off.

Just an aside: I like Angus Hastie, but I really don't understand why we didn't draft Cooper Simpson, he seems exactly what we need in the middle.
 
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I was 50 50 about Ross Lyon as coach, and still am, however, i just don't get why Harvey is Forwards coach, how is he going to help Max?
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Cooper Simpson was on a lot of people's radar at draft time.
He's had a couple of lack lustre games, and at this point he may not be a better long term prospect than Hastie. Certainly doing less than Garcia.
Click to expand...


Cooper Simpson is probably a bit more of an on baller than Hastie so was my preference. Hastie looks pretty good though. Garcia has off set some of the angst for me. He's got something about him.
 
gringo2011 said:
Cooper Simpson is probably a bit more of an on baller than Hastie so was my preference. Hastie looks pretty good though. Garcia has off set some of the angst for me. He's got something about him.
Click to expand...
Ari was a free hit but the other 4 draftees all have a want to be aggressive at and with the ball. Looks like we prioritised attitude and speed which seems like the right thing.
 
Miha said:
Should always be aiming to bring in best in class. I have no idea who the good coaches are out there but the club would. Ross made a point about how Geelong keep their champion players at the club and it’s worked for them, we even took one.

It’s hard from the outside looking in. For all we know, BJ may be a good coach but time will tell
Click to expand...
In fairness to BJ, he doesn’t have much quality at his disposal
 

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I'd like to know what's going on with our strength and conditioning. The new guys not working right now. Most of our older players look like they've lost weight and they don't look very defined. I worry. Injuries this season. Steele and King look like addicts. Compared with the physical development of other young sides we don't look great.
 
Coaching? in Lyon's two seasons, we have gone from playing in a final, to going backwards this season and sit 14th on the ladder, and play a horrible brand of football where the body language of the team is a worry. I don't see rebuilding, I see more desperation and juggling of personnel in trying get a formula that works. I know that some of those players seem to be struggling to play their best footy, and there's not enough scrutiny on the football dept who need to get the most out of the list.
 
austinnn said:
www.afl.com.au

Nine things we learned: This Bulldog's role change has worked wonders

A veteran Lion is charging towards another contract, a Bulldogs move has proven to be a winner plus more round 10 lessons
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

5) These two are helping to re-shape the ruck role

Luke Jackson and Rowan Marshall are in the top handful of rucks in the competition (even if Jackson is set to spend more time forward when Sean Darcy returns next week) and the pair went head-to-head in an entertaining battle on Saturday night. The numbers they put up were astounding; Marshall topped the entire field for disposals with 31 while also recording 39 hitouts, eight clearances and 366m gained. Jackson also finished with 39 hitouts, 25 touches and 10 clearances (the most of any player on the ground), although he only had 56m gained. Both rucks are among a group who are increasingly willing to grab the ball from the contest themselves rather than simply tapping it to the smaller men at their feet, with Marshall preferring to boot it as quickly as possible and Jackson (22 handballs) leaning towards using quick hands to a teammate – Sarah Black.


I am starting to see a method in the madness with the way we play footy, and why Rowan Marshall is lauded in a hopeless team that is played off the park every week.

I watched Marshall in stoppages against Walyalup this weekend; many times I thought I was watching the same one on repeat - Jackson and Marshall jump to collect the ball, Marshall grabs it, wheels off to his left in heaps of space, lamps it as far as he can blindly, it gets marked by a Dockers defender and comes back through the corridor in a matter of seconds, with mixed results. A rare variation is that instead of a Docker defender marking it clearly, there is a contest with varying results.

Some might ask themselves why opposition teams are letting Marshall grab that much of the ball from stoppages. You and I know it's because he will be the surest method of getting it into their hands with his chaos-ball methods.

Up until recently, i naively imagined this was simply Marshall being the world's dumbest footballer. I now understand that this happens so regularly that it's all part of the plan.

I'm guessing what most of you probably already realised: that Lyon and his assistants have such little faith in our midfield players that they are looking to avoid playing through them as much as possible.

Marshall's job at each centre bounce is essentially to transfer the centre bounce about 50m closer to our goal. Let our forwards win the ball and score immediately :grinning::laughing::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::sleepy:or give the Uberdefence (unused mids and defenders) time to set up to defend the ball coming out of our forward line. We rush onto the oncoming ball, create a scrap, scoop up the turnover, belt it forward, and keep repeating.

Jurgen Klopp did the same thing (with much more success) with Liverpool when he realised that his midfielders were the team's weakest link. He had two fantastic passers on either flank, so he got the team to give them the ball whenever they could and they or the central defender would often play long balls directly to the devastating forwards and the mids were mostly used to chase down opposition advances and win the ball back.

Will it work for St Kilda?

Max gets mounted regularly by his man and gets free kicks or doesn't. The crumbers occasionally mop up incoming bombs - and this is probably the area where Jade Gresham is most missed - and last year Owens was like a forward line Paddy Cripps, making directly or smashing into contexts. In a few years Phillipou could be doing the same.

I don't know if it will ever be more effective, but I'm really not a fan of this way. However until we get a more reliable midfield or a more reliable traditional ruckman, it's probably playing to our strengths in theory. I don't know what else they could do. It's pretty dynamic I guess, probably what Ross imagines fast and dynamic football to be. His assistants must have come up with this, but I don't know if our players can pull it off.

Just an aside: I like Angus Hastie, but I really don't understand why we didn't draft Cooper Simpson, he seems exactly what we need in the middle.
Click to expand...

Some good observations re Marshall. What needs to be included is that teams with similiar ruckman and dominant midfields dont seem to have problems winning their share of the ball. Both teams know that the dump kicks are coming out the centre and teams with strong marking defences flankers etc smash us when the ball is in dispute in the air.

For some reason our forwards are the worst at reading the ball off the boot and are ridiculously slow to react eg SEN nicknaming Max King Forty Winx.
 
Last edited:
SteeleSaints said:
Some good observations re Marshall. What needs to be included is that teams with similiar ruckman and dominant midfields dont seem to have problems winning their share of the ball. Both teams know that the dump kicks are coming out the centre and teams with strong marking defences flakers etc smash us when the ball is in dispute in the air.

For some reason our forwards are the worst at reading the ball off the boot and are ridiculously slow to react eg SEN nicknaming Max King Forty Winx.
Click to expand...


Too tall and slow.
 
SteeleSaints said:
Some good observations re Marshall. What needs to be included is that teams with similiar ruckman and dominant midfields dont seem to have problems winning their share of the ball. Both teams know that the dump kicks are coming out the centre and teams with strong marking defences flankers etc smash us when the ball is in dispute in the air.

For some reason our forwards are the worst at reading the ball off the boot and are ridiculously slow to react eg SEN nicknaming Max King Forty Winx.
Click to expand...
They glossed over the difference between Marshall and Jackson and is something that affects the quality of the i50.

"...Marshall preferring to boot it as quickly as possible and Jackson (22 handballs) leaning towards using quick hands to a teammate."
 
pebblesofsand said:
They glossed over the difference between Marshall and Jackson and is something that affects the quality of the i50.

"...Marshall preferring to boot it as quickly as possible and Jackson (22 handballs) leaning towards using quick hands to a teammate."
Click to expand...
This. The Freo mids constantly set up with at least two free behind the ball. Jackson constantly tapped it backwards towards these two free mids.
Why we didn't adjust around ruck contests is anybodies guess, but Jackson did it all night and contributed greatly to the win.

Marshall is easily read, takes possession and dump kicks. Rarely is it to our advantage. He is a poor tap ruck.
We looked so much better with Campbell giving our mids first use and Marshall running about like a large mobile mid.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
I know we are playing Keeler down back this season and Hammer up forward, however from a future balance POV and to protect Marshalls longevity it would make sense to play Hammer down Back, alongside Wilkie, Shoey (Battle if he stays) and Keeler as a Fwd/2nd Ruck in a 70/30 split...just a thought for team balance moving forward?
 
The Cavalry said:
I know we are playing Keeler down back this season and Hammer up forward, however from a future balance POV and to protect Marshalls longevity it would make sense to play Hammer down Back, alongside Wilkie, Shoey (Battle if he stays) and Keeler as a Fwd/2nd Ruck in a 70/30 split...just a thought for team balance moving forward?
Click to expand...
I think by the time Keeler is good to go (assuming he’s any good of course) Marshall will most likely be past it. Turns 29 at the end of the year. Keeler looked like a pretty special ruckman as a junior didn’t he, I’d be exploring that at least in the VFL.
 
The Cavalry said:
I know we are playing Keeler down back this season and Hammer up forward, however from a future balance POV and to protect Marshalls longevity it would make sense to play Hammer down Back, alongside Wilkie, Shoey (Battle if he stays) and Keeler as a Fwd/2nd Ruck in a 70/30 split...just a thought for team balance moving forward?
Click to expand...
Protect his longevity? Didn't you hear Marshall is being trade for multiple multiple Top 10 picks???!
 
hayes said:
I think by the time Keeler is good to go (assuming he’s any good of course) Marshall will most likely be past it. Turns 29 at the end of the year. Keeler looked like a pretty special ruckman as a junior didn’t he, I’d be exploring that at least in the VFL.
Click to expand...


I think he looked more like a ruck forward. There was a fair bit of projecting Paddy Ryder into him. His real skill set was his ability to play tall but still have a highly skilled field game. I think he could probably end up a bit like Amartey in that they are both very nimble and clean with their hands. I think we'd be better to use him as an upmarket Rory Lobb with him sitting forward but taking the hitouts around the ground and as a chop out.
 

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