2024 Draft Thread.

[Rogue Warrior]

God that Billing’s write up makes for brutal reading in hindsight. Sounds like a mix of Butters, Didak & Pendlebury. He sure as hell didn’t turn out like that

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I hope he's not past his prime, Toce was going well. This is the most important draft in ages. **** it up and we are in all sorts of trouble.

Lalor's disposal looks terrible. I would have him late first round on that alone.

His disposal looks fine to me in his vids .... elite at times .... has a very clean kicking action .... as mentioned in one report he puts the ball in dangerous positions ..... kicked 7 in one APS match this year so his disposal can't be that bad

So not sure where you are getting the terrible disposal info from .... have posted a few videos below ...he definitely ain't no Elijah Tsatas in terms of kicking skills

Also he loves a tackle, hunts the ball, good movement through traffic, burst from stoppages, good decision making and skills

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Below are some interesting tidbits from Bontempelli's draft profile .... who was a Dalrymple pick ...... and also a comparison with Billings draft profile

Bontempelli

The 192cm prospect had a quiet NAB AFL Under-18 Championships for Vic Metro, but did finish off well against Vic Country in the final game, gathering 21 disposals and nine handball receives. Bontempelli took confidence from that final game of the national carnival into the back end of the season for the Northern Knights.

STRENGTHS
Height and endurance are two of Bontempelli's key components. Bontempelli ran a 14.7 in the beep test at the NAB AFL Draft Combine and having that capacity as a big, smooth-moving midfielder forms part of his repertoire. He can jump and take a mark, and is also a solid kick on both feet. The thing about Bontempelli at this stage of his football life is that when he is on song, he is so hard to beat, because he complements his leap and run with his frame and can turn a game.

WEAKNESSES
Given his height and size, Bontempelli will most likely end up an inside midfielder, which means there is still improvements to be made in his contested ball winning. When he does come to terms with his build, he will look to be more powerful with it, and could work on his burst speed.

DRAFT RANGE
A first-round selection. A harder one to read because some clubs have him as a very early pick and others see him closer to No.15.

BOTTOM LINE
The club which picks Bontempelli will not be looking at the player it gets for next season, it will be excited about the player it may have in a few years when all his components come together. Huge raw potential.

So bottom line for Bont in his draft year was that the potential was there but it didn't all come together for him at TAC Cup level especially in the U18 National Champs .... Dalrymple took a punt based on potential

We went safe and took Billings who was seen as a level above in the TAC Cup level and at the NCs

Billings

A medium-sized forward who is brilliant on his preferred left foot and particularly damaging in and around the goals. Billings is a versatile player who can also play through the midfield and off half-back where his awareness and vision can prove pivotal. He kicked three goals in the last round of the Under-18 Championships against Vic Country to secure All-Australian honours for the second time after a brilliant 2012 campaign as an underage player. Apart from his elite kicking, Billings combines a strong overhead mark with an ability at ground level to make life difficult for opponents. Set to become another member of the large Oakleigh Chargers AFL alumni, Billings is expected to go top five in this year's draft.

STRENGTHS
With his sticky overhead marking and elite skills on both feet, Billings has a couple of strong weapons that separate him from his peers. As a forward he can take a pack mark as easily as crumb a contest, and through the midfield it's not unusual to see him gather the ball, break away from a stoppage and then deliver the pass. Because his skills are so good, Billings looks like a finisher. But he is more than that: good in traffic, can feed the ball out with quick hands, and seems to always find space. At TAC Cup level, he came back from injury and played strong games, and although under duress with his knee, picked up 26 possessions then followed it with 32.

WEAKNESSES
The 18-year-old will need to build his aerobic base before he becomes a permanent midfielder. It isn't at a bad level but will have to improve to be able to play more consistently around the ball instead of across half-forward. Some may see him as an outside player at this stage of his development but his statistics at the championships – 19 contested possessions, 20 uncontested – show him to be pretty rounded in that area.

DRAFT RANGE
Billings is set to be selected inside the top five picks next month. If not, he won't last much longer.

BOTTOM LINE
Billings is a match-winner, a prospect who saves his best for the big moments. With his marking and kicking, he might be the most dynamic player available.

Raw Potential vs Gun Runs on the board

Yeah forget Max v Ben

Way back in 2013 was when we selected the wrong twin

 

[Sarcoidevo]

On Bont he was playing legendary games of footy where people would talk about this kid that was Nicky Dal's cousin that has kicked 15.2 from 52 disposals and was playing out of the middle. The knock seemed to be that his size might make him too tall for mid. It was the era of Andreas Everett not Paddy CrCripps.

Nothing like a bit of mayo on top

It was 50 & 10 goals playing for Marcellin in the AGSV which was a weaker comp than the APS

In the representative APS v AGVS game that year (2013) the APS won 76 to 13 (2.1) and Bont played.

The AGVS in 2013 there were about 2 or 3 teams were dominant with some teams like Camberwell and Ivanhoe getting beat by over 15 goals by the better teams.... Camberwell in the year before got done by over 200pts

Fair effort getting it 50 times and kicking 10 but let's put it in perspective .... I once kicked 8 in the U12s .... against the bottom side of course .... and barely made it to C Grade Amateur level

The knock was that in a higher grade of competition he still was behind a few others but as stated ... the raw potential was there ... it just needed further development

 

[akaifu]

His disposal looks fine to me in his vids .... elite at times .... has a very clean kicking action .... as mentioned in one report he puts the ball in dangerous positions ..... kicked 7 in one APS match this year so his disposal can't be that bad

So not sure where you are getting the terrible disposal info from .... have posted a few videos below ...he definitely ain't no Elijah Tsatas in terms of kicking skills

Also he loves a tackle, hunts the ball, good movement through traffic, burst from stoppages, good decision making and skills

The way Lalor plays reminds me so much of Petracca - the way he runs, takes the ball, kicks, marks

Definitely a solid kick. I think gringo just hates the club and everything they do so the fact that they've already met with Lalor multiple times probably triggers him into negativity toward the player

 

[akaifu]

Gee it'd be huge if we could somehow get all of Jagga, Moraes and Lalor in the first round. Then maybe Travaglia in the second round or even Day-Wicks if he gets form

 

[gringo2011]

Nothing like a bit of mayo on top

It was 50 & 10 goals playing for Marcellin in the AGSV which was a weaker comp than the APS

In the representative APS v AGVS game that year (2013) the APS won 76 to 13 (2.1) and Bont played.

The AGVS in 2013 there were about 2 or 3 teams were dominant with some teams like Camberwell and Ivanhoe getting beat by over 15 goals by the better teams.... Camberwell in the year before got done by over 200pts

Fair effort getting it 50 times and kicking 10 but let's put it in perspective .... I once kicked 8 in the U12s .... against the bottom side of course .... and barely made it to C Grade Amateur level

The knock was that in a higher grade of competition he still was behind a few others but as stated ... the raw potential was there ... it just needed further development

I was exaggerating for comedic effect. People were talking about him dominating games though. He was the hype player of the draft who'd come from nowhere after an ordinary under 17 year. Knightmare had him at pick 4 to the Dogs so he certainly wasn't a reach. Some clubs had him top 4 some around 15.

 

[gringo2011]

The way Lalor plays reminds me so much of Petracca - the way he runs, takes the ball, kicks, marks

Definitely a solid kick. I think gringo just hates the club and everything they do so the fact that they've already met with Lalor multiple times probably triggers him into negativity toward the player

How do I know who they've met with? Just not that excited by him. Looks a mid to late first rounder type. I was totally into him until watching lots of unedited footage and not seeing the elite traits. I personally wouldn't use a top 6 pick on him. Looks meat and potatoes to me. We need some one like him though. I see more in guys like Langford who are lower ranked.

I never rated Cerra or guys like that so it doesn't mean much. I wouldn't have taken Sam Walsh at pick 1 either, I had a man crush on Rankine who looked like he absolute star player in that draft. If they'd taken Rankine while Walsh started fast the fans would have cracked it. Think Rankine ends up the better player still but Carlton would be pretty happy that they took Sam.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Seems to me the in and under type players are the hardest to judge.
There seem to be a lot like Bytel, who can't quite do enough at AFL level to make the cut.
Someone like Bynes can find himself useful, and run round as a depth player despite his flaws, but a lot of the inside mids seem to be one position players.
So if you pick one that's not up to it, its a bust.

Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

was a recent example, until the Saints decided he wasn't a bust.
Go back and see what you were saying about Paddy Dow

15

Paddy Dow

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

7.1

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.4

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

2 years ago.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Seems to me the in and under type players are the hardest to judge.
There seem to be a lot like Bytel, who can't quite do enough at AFL level to make the cut.
Someone like Bynes can find himself useful, and run round as a depth player despite his flaws, but a lot of the inside mids seem to be one position players.
So if you pick one that's not up to it, its a bust.

Paddy Dow was a recent example, until the Saints decided he wasn't a bust.
Go back and see what you were saying about Paddy Dow 2 years ago.

Paddy wasnt moving well last week after the ankle injury, he shouldnt have played last weekend. That is something Lyon is repeatedly guilty of over the years persuading injured players to play when they shouldnt.

Im not writing him off on that game, plus he had no preseason which makes it tough on any player let alone midfielders.

 

[gringo2011]

By the sounds of it, seems a lot more average top end of the draft this year compared to last with stars like Reid, mckercher etc. depth looks decent though, and obviously will know a lot more after the champs. Smillie seems the early number 1 favourite, but it's not clear cut like Reid last year. Seems like a lot of the midfielders at the top have flaws this year. Smillie a Cripps like mid, but queries if he is just a big powerful kid. O'Sullivan looks a player, but doesn't seem to find a heap of the ball compared to most top end mids. Jagga smith can find the ball and has some moves, but sounds like he can butcher the ball. Nearly certain to have a top 5 pick now.

O’Sullivan is injured so you are basing off his past. He looked really good. Probably a bit like Wardlaw where he looked a really nice mover in traffic and quite good vision. Problem is some kids drop off in their draft year so you’re gambling.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Paddy wasnt moving well last week after the ankle injury, he shouldnt have played last weekend. That is something Lyon is repeatedly guilty of over the years persuading injured players to play when they shouldnt.

Im not writing him off on that game, plus he had no preseason which makes it tough on any player let alone midfielders.

Gee whiz Ross doesn’t do much right in your eyes does he?

Now he’s overruling the medical staff to play injured players like… and apparently has a long history of doing so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SteeleSaints]

Gee whiz Ross doesn’t do much right in your eyes does he?

Now he’s overruling the medical staff to play injured players like… and apparently has a long history of doing so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some people have very short memories - do you recall Brad Crouch being rolled out on one leg. Last year Steele and King playing half a year 70% fit, and then returning without any real preparation. Dow didnt train for most of the week with a crook ankle, I dont now if Lyon over rules the medical staff or whether the staff or players themselevs are pressured to clear to play. But there is years of evidence of players being played when they clearly shouldnt have, if you havent noticed that then Im sorry...

 

[Teflon]

Some people have very short memories - do you recall Brad Crouch being rolled out on one leg. Last year Steele and King playing half a year 70% fit, and then returning without any real preparation. Dow didnt train for most of the week with a crook ankle, I dont now if Lyon over rules the medical staff or whether the staff or players themselevs are pressured to clear to play. But there is years of evidence of players being played when they clearly shouldnt have, if you havent noticed that then Im sorry...

I think the player says I’m ok
Medical staff say “he looks ok”
Player gets selected
Don’t think Lyon has much to do with that tbh but that’s not the anti Lyon narrative so I get it …

 

[SteeleSaints]

I think the player says I’m ok
Medical staff say “he looks ok”
Player gets selected
Don’t think Lyon has much to do with that tbh but that’s not the anti Lyon narrative so I get it …

Im not anti Lyon, but I am also not a 'mushroom' Ill call out the things he gets wrong. That shit has been going on for years with Ross. In 2009/2010 I had a conversation with a Saints player who played under himover that time, it was in Sydney at the now Allianz Stadum. The player said Lyon brought him back from injury when he wasnt ready, he played a stinker and then Lyon dropped him the following week. Then the club rested him from also playing VFL - sounds familiar?

Lyon is a good coach but I hate the brand of footy he has us playing atm (win or lose) its just rubbish and people arent interested in watching it. Im not a Lyon hater, but like others I think even the better coaches get things wrong at times. The really good ones learn from their mistakes and are not resistance to change. I question whether Ross has those capacities?

 

[Teflon]

Im not anti Lyon, but I am also not a 'mushroom' Ill call out the things he gets wrong. That shit has been going on for years with Ross. In 2009/2010 I had a conversation with a Saints player who played under himover that time, it was in Sydney at the now Allianz Stadum. The player said Lyon brought him back from injury when he wasnt ready, he played a stinker and then Lyon dropped him the following week. Then the club rested him from also playing VFL - sounds familiar?

Lyon is a good coach but I hate the brand of footy he has us playing atm (win or lose) its just rubbish and people arent interested in watching it. Im not a Lyon hater, but like others I think even the better coaches get things wrong at times. The really good ones learn from their mistakes and are not resistance to change. I question whether Ross has those capacities?

I met with an assistant coach Lyon sacked in his 1st stint
Quote: “he’s the best coach I’ve ever worked under ..meticulous…oh and Grant T fcked your club” end quote
No one is perfect
Blaming Lyon cause medical staff tick off players to play is nonsense
Oh and I’ve NEVER been to the footy like I did in 09/10 where sides feared playing us …style wasn’t boring then ….it was winning though
Lyons 18 months in suggest you buckle up

 

[SteeleSaints]

I met with an assistant coach Lyon sacked in his 1st stint
Quote: “he’s the best coach I’ve ever worked under ..meticulous…oh and Grant T fcked your club” end quote
No one is perfect
Blaming Lyon cause medical staff tick off players to play is nonsense
Oh and I’ve NEVER been to the footy like I did in 09/10 where sides feared playing us …style wasn’t boring then ….it was winning though
Lyons 18 months in suggest you buckle up

Ha ha I didnt say he couldnt coach, but the entire AFL industry know he is a strong individual and gets what he wants at the club. The player I mentioned was with others when he made that statement and even mid season there was a lot of resentment towards the coach from the others present.

The medical staff are not independant of the coach, who do you think sacked Walsh after Lyon's first 6 months. To believe he doesnt influence decisions regarding player availability is head in the sand stuff....but you keep believing in the bubble you can rock yourself to sleep at night.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Im not anti Lyon, but I am also not a 'mushroom' Ill call out the things he gets wrong. That shit has been going on for years with Ross. In 2009/2010 I had a conversation with a Saints player who played under himover that time, it was in Sydney at the now Allianz Stadum. The player said Lyon brought him back from injury when he wasnt ready, he played a stinker and then Lyon dropped him the following week. Then the club rested him from also playing VFL - sounds familiar?

Lyon is a good coach but I hate the brand of footy he has us playing atm (win or lose) its just rubbish and people arent interested in watching it. Im not a Lyon hater, but like others I think even the better coaches get things wrong at times. The really good ones learn from their mistakes and are not resistance to change. I question whether Ross has those capacities?

Can u explain the brand of footy we are playing?

What type of brand do you want to see?

Interesting that we average 2.6 less i50s per game than Carlton and 1.3 less than Collingwood and 0.6 less than Freo .... all currently in the top 6 of the ladder .... all with significantly better midfields than ours

For me the gameplan is fine .... currently the main problem is lack of quality midfield personnel and a dysfunctional forwardline not helped by injury & suspension along the kicking yips (4th last in accuracy)

 

[gringo2011]

Can u explain the brand of footy we are playing?

What type of brand do you want to see?

Interesting that we average 2.6 less i50s per game than Carlton and 1.3 less than Collingwood and 0.6 less than Freo .... all currently in the top 6 of the ladder .... all with significantly better midfields than ours

For me the gameplan is fine .... currently the main problem is lack of quality midfield personnel and a dysfunctional forwardline not helped by injury & suspension along the kicking yips (4th last in accuracy)

It’s been more attacking the last two matches but it’s been abysmal ugly footy with no excitement most of the year. You can look at stats or use your eyes and ears to see that it’s not an attractive brand. Hopefully it was covering for injured players because if we play like that next year and are losing we are going to be punished by the fixture and fans dropping off.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Can u explain the brand of footy we are playing?

What type of brand do you want to see?

Interesting that we average 2.6 less i50s per game than Carlton and 1.3 less than Collingwood and 0.6 less than Freo .... all currently in the top 6 of the ladder .... all with significantly better midfields than ours

For me the gameplan is fine .... currently the main problem is lack of quality midfield personnel and a dysfunctional forwardline not helped by injury & suspension along the kicking yips (4th last in accuracy)

Player talent is an obvious cause to some of our midfield issues, but WHY are so many players who last year played good footy now so badly out of form? WHY do most the team look like they dont want to be out there and are not enjoying their games. The entire group lack any excitement or enjoyment out of seeing each others acheivements, they are just not enjoying their footy. That is an entire club and a coaching problem that spills over into those watching the games. Crikey if our players arent enjoying their footy the crowds are not likely to get excited.

Most of our inside 50's come from defensive mid turnovers, the quality of the F50 entries is no comparison to the clubs you mentioned. Those clubs when they win the ball back in their defence take off and run and carry and deliver the ball into the F50 quickly. We immediately slow the game down, go side ways switch the ball and then attempt to find a lose player 20 metres away, crab up the field allowing the opposition time to shut down any hope we had of a leading channel. Its like we are so risk averse we are frigthened to attack the game and play quick footy just in case the opposition win it back and score the other way.

Even the midfield are completely reactive to what their opponents are doing, very rarely do you see one of our mids hit the ball drop at speed and expect to win the footy. Its all about hopefully stopping the opposition, that defensive save the game mentality mindset has spread like a cancer throughout the club. As a result the entire playing group are not enjoying their footy.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

It’s been more attacking the last two matches but it’s been abysmal ugly footy with no excitement most of the year. You can look at stats or use your eyes and ears to see that it’s not an attractive brand. Hopefully it was covering for injured players because if we play like that next year and are losing we are going to be punished by the fixture and fans dropping off.

Excitement for fans comes from kicking goals and for the most part we are getting plenty of looks but our forwardline has struggled all season.

Look again at those i50 stats against those teams mentioned sitting inside the Top 6.

We average 2.6 less i50s than Carlton and they sit 2nd .... yet we are dead set boring and they are an excitement machine ..... 2.6 less over a 100 minute game

Plenty of matches this year we moved the ball well from back to forward only to be let down by an errant last kick ... whether to a forward player or at goal

How many times in matches this year have dominated i50 counts in quarters for no return ..... is that due to Lyon's mystical superflood or is it due to our dysfunctional injury & suspension hit forwardline?

 

[Jade Buddha]

Ha ha I didnt say he couldnt coach, but the entire AFL industry know he is a strong individual and gets what he wants at the club. The player I mentioned was with others when he made that statement and even mid season there was a lot of resentment towards the coach from the others present.

The medical staff are not independant of the coach, who do you think sacked Walsh after Lyon's first 6 months. To believe he doesnt influence decisions regarding player availability is head in the sand stuff....but you keep believing in the bubble you can rock yourself to sleep at night.

A little condescending

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Player talent is an obvious cause to some of our midfield issues, but WHY are so many players who last year played good footy now so badly out of form? WHY do most the team look like they dont want to be out there and are not enjoying their games. The entire group lack any excitement or enjoyment out of seeing each others acheivements, they are just not enjoying their footy. That is an entire club and a coaching problem that spills over into those watching the games. Crikey if our players arent enjoying their footy the crowds are not likely to get excited.

Most of our inside 50's come from defensive mid turnovers, the quality of the F50 entries is no comparison to the clubs you mentioned. Those clubs when they win the ball back in their defence take off and run and carry and deliver the ball into the F50 quickly. We immediately slow the game down, go side ways switch the ball and then attempt to find a lose player 20 metres away, crab up the field allowing the opposition time to shut down any hope we had of a leading channel. Its like we are so risk averse we are frigthened to attack the game and play quick footy just in case the opposition win it back and score the other way.

Even the midfield are completely reactive to what their opponents are doing, very rarely do you see one of our mids hit the ball drop at speed and expect to win the footy. Its all about hopefully stopping the opposition, that defensive save the game mentality mindset has spread like a cancer throughout the club. As a result the entire playing group are not enjoying their footy.

So Lyon's gameplan is fault because we don't have the midfield players to hit the ball at speed around a stoppage? Like a Butters or a JHF or a Reid or a Petracca? Also compounded by the fact that we have to work out where the opposition ruckman is going to tap it because we ourselves struggle to win one

As for us slowing the game down to a complete stop and crabbing the ball sideways more so than other teams when we win it in our defensive half is a complete myth ... all teams do that at certain junctures .... but I have seen us move the ball quickly plenty times this season after winning a turnover only to be let down by a shite decision or a last terrible kick either at goal or to an i50 player and then not being able to trap the ball in our forward half if the ball hits the ground ..... case in point Mitch's decision to handball to King on the weekend .... kick the flipping goal Mitch

It is our inability to kick goals at the moment that is our biggest issue .... we can move the ball as well as any team it's just that we are struggling to finish off after our hard work up the field

 

[Yabadoo22]

This is the draft thread. Can we please stop clogging it up with nonsense about coaching and game style. Take it elsewhere. Go saints

 

[Sarcoidevo]

This is the draft thread. Can we please stop clogging it up with nonsense about coaching and game style. Take it elsewhere. Go saints

Apologies Fred