List Mgmt. 2024 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

 

[caesar88]

Arguing about the forward line is a sideshow.

The beginning, middle, and end of our issues are in the centre of the ground.

I think the two issues can both exist at the same time.

 

[tombomb]

It's both, as bad as the midfield were, on key indicators they weren't as horrid as it seemed.

What was worse is the constant letting the ball out of our forward 50. In today's game pressure inside your 50 is just as important if not more than winning clearances, the oppositions HBF's set up most of the goals, and yes Ashcroft won the NS, their HBF's could have too. Our forwards did sweet zilch to keep it in, even Paps was poor at best. The whole forwardline couldn't even be bothered making a tackle. Now YES the other parts of the ground were bad and the inside division weren't great, but I sure aint letting those forwards off the hook, they were worse!

Our forward line scores heavily when we we are winning in the midfield. When we are being completely humiliated by the likes of Neale and Ashcroft, they look weak.

 

[tombomb]

I think the two issues can both exist at the same time.

One is a minor issue. One is a huge problem.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Our forward line scores heavily when we we are winning in the midfield. When we are being completely humiliated by the likes of Neale and Ashcroft, they look weak.

Yes, I agree, but that means we rely on everything going one way, and it's also why I'm saying give me another medium to small. These types at worst keep the ball in

 

[Bloods86]

The GF wasn't the only game where our side had zilch pressure inside 50, and when I mean zilch I mean absolutely zilch. Logan is fine he now should be the central forward for us. I don't care which tall out of Amartey/McLean but both don't work.

Is Hanily the answer I don't know but structurally I want another medium/small in there, and I sure don't want Wicks near the side. Give Hanily and a few others a go in the pre season, the best performed gets that 3rd forward position. We need to find our Lohmann, Paps as good as he is can't do everything.

This is also why I've been consistent, a small forward at one of these two first selections and I am not against going straight up with our first pick for one, there are plenty of talls, one will slip to our second

Agree on a 2-2-2 forward structure and getting in a medium forward.

I don't think we need to go out and use one of our first 2 or 3 picks on another small fwd option though.

Brisbane had 3 smalls and a medium (Lohmann is 1cm shorter than Hayward).

Of the 3 smalls, Ah Chee was an outside mid / half forward (like Campbell was) and Bailey was an inside mid (like Cleary is). If we consider Papley our Cameron, we already have the potential makings of their small/med forward setup on the list. I'm not sure drafting another, considering the best will be gone, is going to help. Hanily is also promising.

The coaches just need to play who we have and run Warner at half forward more, after an off season of tackling and 2nd effort drills.

 

[Bloods86]

Our forward line scores heavily when we we are winning in the midfield. When we are being completely humiliated by the likes of Neale and Ashcroft, they look weak.

Our dominance mostly came from our intercept/turnover and rebound game, at least that's what the noise was about in the first half of the year. We got stifled at that and then our clearance issues compounded.

 

[tombomb]

Yes, I agree, but that means we rely on everything going one way, and it's also why I'm saying give me another medium to small. These types at worst keep the ball in

The problem is we have this glaring weakness in the middle of the ground that gets exposed over and over again, and at the worst possible moments.

We swap out Amartey for Cleary, we probably lose by 54 pts instead of 60.

 

[bedford]

Our dominance mostly came from our intercept/turnover and rebound game, at least that's what the noise was about in the first half of the year. We got stifled at that and then our clearance issues compounded.

Thank you

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Agree on a 2-2-2 forward structure and getting in a medium forward.

I don't think we need to go out and use one of our first 2 or 3 picks on another small fwd option though.

Brisbane had 3 smalls and a medium (Lohmann is 1cm shorter than Hayward).

Of the 3 smalls, Ah Chee was an outside mid / half forward (like Campbell was) and Bailey was an inside mid (like Cleary is). If we consider Papley our Cameron, we already have the potential makings of their small/med forward setup on the list. I'm not sure drafting another, considering the best will be gone, is going to help. Hanily is also promising.

The coaches just need to play who we have and run Warner at half forward more, after an off season of tackling and 2nd effort drills.

Still think we need another on our list, I'll try to be nice and say Wicks is lucky he's contracted. He will never really be good enough consistently, reminds me so much of good ole Foote...oh he tries yeah okay so it's a participation award now.

Issue I'm seeing with Campbell up there is as a small forward you need to be at least competent on both sides of your body, can he even kick on his right?

 

[tombomb]

Our dominance mostly came from our intercept/turnover and rebound game, at least that's what the noise was about in the first half of the year. We got stifled at that and then our clearance issues compounded.

It's not a sustainable game style, especially in the highest pressure games.

If you are constantly getting beaten up inside, it will eventually catch up with you as it always does with us at the worst possible time.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

The problem is we have this glaring weakness in the middle of the ground that gets exposed over and over again, and at the worst possible moments.

We swap out Amartey for Cleary, we probably lose by 54 pts instead of 60.

We play Sheldrick or Adams like we should have it improves, our structure was wrong all season long, which got worse fitting in a 10% fit Mills and a cooked Parker who turned up once a few weeks. We had it right and cooked it.

 

[tombomb]

We play Sheldrick or Adams like we should have it improves, our structure was wrong all season long, which got worse fitting in a 10% fit Mills and a cooked Parker who turned up once a few weeks. We had it right and cooked it.

I have zero faith they will pick Sheldrick.

It should have been a priority to get him into the team this year once he was healthy. The club clearly didn't agree with that.

 

[Bloods86]

It's not a sustainable game style, especially in the highest pressure games.

If you are constantly getting beaten up inside, it will eventually catch up with you as it always does with us at the worst possible time.

I agree, but was just pointing out that our dominance wasn't because we were dominating the midfield.

I think we need to improve there to at least match it or stop those continuous clearance and failure to rebound cycles we got ourselves into vs Port, Lions etc.

I also think we have players who didn't play in the midfield this year that can help, along with a contested specialist mature ager, of which there are a few around, at our 3rd pick.

 

[caesar88]

One is a minor issue. One is a huge problem.

I don't know that it's a minor issue. The forward line only works when plan A is humming. You can't be rudderless and unable to put goals up even when things aren't going that great.

The inside 50s in the grand final were pretty much even at 51-49, yet one team scored exactly double the other.

The instinct is to blame it on the delivery, but Brisbane weren't always clinical either. Much of their work out of the middle was just banging it in deep and hoping for the best, same as Geelong in 2022. But they were able to take 22 marks inside 50 still, while we took 9. Their three key forwards & medium took 26 marks for the day while our three key forwards & medium took 9.

So they dominated in the air. But then they also dominated at ground level even when they weren't taking marks. They got 9 goals out of their small forwards, almost half their score and 6 points less than we managed for the entire day.

I agree that the midfield tends to set the terms of a game in terms of who is on top and who has the momentum. Despite Swans fans' optimism towards the contrary, clearances are king in grand finals. But that doesn't mean we don't still need a better forward line so that when we get our chances - and we had them - we can still score and remain competitive.

 

[Olian]

 

[Bloods86]

We play Sheldrick or Adams like we should have it improves, our structure was wrong all season long, which got worse fitting in a 10% fit Mills and a cooked Parker who turned up once a few weeks. We had it right and cooked it.

What evidence do you have that Adams playing as a main mid improves us there?

As I've pointed out, in the 4 games he attended anywhere near enough CBs (over 40%) to be considered a main mid, he averaged less than 3 total clearances per game. He did better in some bursts, but unless he is a sub coming on in the 3rd (which should never be planned for), he doesn't really have a 2nd position to keep him impacting the rest of the time. If we want him to run with a slower mid, then sure.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I have zero faith they will pick Sheldrick.

It should have been a priority to get him into the team this year once he was healthy. The club clearly didn't agree with that.

I agree and that’s on the coaches and it’s why I’m far from convinced Horse won’t go with this ridiculous 3 talls plus Grundy thing

 

[LukeParkerno1]

What evidence do you have that Adams playing as a main mid improves us there?

As I've pointed out, in the 4 games he attended anywhere near enough CBs (over 40%) to be considered a main mid, he averaged less than 3 total clearances per game. He did better in some bursts, but unless he is a sub coming on in the 3rd (which should never be planned for), he doesn't really have a 2nd position to keep him impacting the rest of the time. If we want him to run with a slower mid, then sure.

Where did we play our best footy this year- it was where Adams played. It’s not just about pure numbers he created the space for your Heeney, Gulden etc. One of Sheldrick or Adams had to play in the finals and that’s on the coaching staff.

 

[SwansLifer]

Wicked thought, but imagine if North play Swans at SCG for Parker’s 300th, then late in the game Konstanty tackles Mills and re-dislocates his shoulder

And Dylan Stephens kicks the winning goal.

 

[tombomb]

What evidence do you have that Adams playing as a main mid improves us there?

As I've pointed out, in the 4 games he attended anywhere near enough CBs (over 40%) to be considered a main mid, he averaged less than 3 total clearances per game. He did better in some bursts, but unless he is a sub coming on in the 3rd (which should never be planned for), he doesn't really have a 2nd position to keep him impacting the rest of the time. If we want him to run with a slower mid, then sure.

Adams has weaknesses but he can win the ball in tight and plays with composure under pressure. An area we get humiliated in all the time in the biggest games.

 

[Bloods86]

Where did we play our best footy this year- it was where Adams played. It’s not just about pure numbers he created the space for your Heeney, Gulden etc. One of Sheldrick or Adams had to play in the finals and that’s on the coaching staff.

Or we had to move Parker into the mids earlier, but we didn't.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Or we had to move Parker into the mids earlier, but we didn't.

Maybe but we could have just played one of those two and taken out a tall. However we know how stubborn Horse is with this 3 tall disaster

 

[rustycrate]

Let’s see when Warner demands to go home and we get offered pick 17 or nothing next year and see how that looks.

That is life in the AFL. It is not fair. It is just reality. That is the way the cookie crumbles. Depends which end you are on. Losing the player or gaining the player. High ladder position or low ladder position. The fortunate or the unfortunate. Crying over spilt milk does not change anything. The power is in the players hands. The AFL Players Union has it stitched up.

 

[caesar88]

We won't have a quality midfield again as long as Horse is coach.

 

[rustycrate]

Even me, still pissed off over the GF can't see us missing the 8. I think we will be in the lower region 6-8 maybe, but we don't have the heart and guts to win it from there.

We will be top 4. Bank it.