Autopsy 2024 Elimination Final Blues blown away in first half. Never looked likely.

[4flagsin5yrs]

He not alone -- SW is one of the worst field kicks for an A grade elite inside to outside player in the competition .

He must be injured - a shadow of his better self....

 

[RPCB]

"Carlton coach Michael Voss told his players their performance was not up to standard in an assessment of their elimination final loss to the Brisbane Lions that vice-captain Sam Walsh described as “pointed”."

“That game summed up a bit of our year; too inconsistent [and] not hard enough to play against at times,” Walsh said.

https://archive.md/O9TT0

“We know this about ourselves, but don’t tell us to change because we won’t. More of the same in 2025. Like 2022, 2023 and 2024.”

 

[Earls Smother]

I don’t think they were sooking, and I don’t think you’re getting my point.

The coaches did not prepare well for the game. They did not pick a team based on logic and form to give us the best possible chance to win.

That lack of good preparation, and the gambling aspect of selection, filters subtly into the mentality of the team.

Compare to the preparation (and team selection) that Geelong did for Port. Very well prepared, very defined plan, fit players, switched on.

The way I see the Geelong result is that Port, like us, came out as flat as a shit-carters hat. Why? The Port supporters will all blame Hinkley, but it can't be that simple and we're not here to discuss Port.

With the season so even, when you get these strange blow-out results, it always says more about the losing side than the winning side.

I disagree that "the gambling aspect of selection, filters subtly into the mentality of the team". We picked a team that was good enough to perform. Why were we so terrible against Hawthorn? The injuries explain the margin, but we were not "on" that day either. Selection or changes had nothing to do with it that day. We just seemed to hit the wall in the latter third of the season. Pity it wasn't a Covid 17 game year.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Genuine question: do you recall us pressing well with Pitto Kennedy Walsh Cripps Hewett on ball?

Walsh needs to go to a wing full time next year. They need Lord on ball. Forget Pitto. Try and get Cinc fitter (his endurance sucks) so he can play on ball a whole game. Change the look
And feel

No it’s definitely a weakness when it comes to those players being able to press and contain as a midfielder group, although i was more talking about the overall team press, we shut down the oppositions space much better last season than we have this season…
Your right though it’s one area of weakness that can flow on and effect the entire system…

 

[Robbo's my hero]

“We know this about ourselves, but don’t tell us to change because we won’t. More of the same in 2025. Like 2022, 2023 and 2024.”

Is that in the article?

 

[jj1978]

“We know this about ourselves, but don’t tell us to change because we won’t. More of the same in 2025. Like 2022, 2023 and 2024.”

Sounds like they've become comfortable feeling comfortable.

 

[Stamos]

I disagree that "the gambling aspect of selection, filters subtly into the mentality of the team". We picked a team that was good enough to perform. Why were we so terrible against Hawthorn? The injuries explain the margin, but we were not "on" that day either. Selection or changes had nothing to do with it that day. We just seemed to hit the wall in the latter third of the season. Pity it wasn't a Covid 17 game year.

We didn’t pick a team that was good enough to perform though. Maybe the names on paper. But actually good enough? In terms of form and fitness? The way we were beaten suggests not.

We were cooked going into the Hawthorn game.
But also, the idea that we were beaten before the injuries is wrong. Martin, Fog and Boyd were all injured in the 1st quarter. We were 2 points down at quarter time, and then blew 3 chances that should have been goals to start the 2nd quarter. Then they broke us.

 

[RPCB]

Is that in the article?

Nope. My own fake quote.

This side is unaccountable.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Woke up this morning pissed off and not because we lost. I went into the game optimistic but knew we were unlikely to win.

I’m pissed off because we are a long way off in terms of having elite standards, integrity and processes that foster success and culture.

If we had such standards then our selection would have been completely different, in both last night’s game and during the year. Players would have been chosen on merit and their ability to execute finals football for 120 mins.

I’m not against taking a bit of a gamble but that needs to be measured and controlled. Bringing 6 underdone players with limited preparation into a final - in my opinion - is amateurish. We were basically guessing…elite organisations and processes do not rely on guesswork. Makes planning really difficult.

I understand the nice story behind Doc retuning but how confident were we that his output would outdo that of Binns. In no circumstance should he have played. If we had even basic standards, then no player after 5 months out of the game would come straight back into the 1s without at least 180 mins of actual match practice. Don’t care if it was Cripps or Charlie or Weiters…same rule applies. It’s called standards.

Same applies to Motlop and all our small forwards…if you won’t bring pressure and do all the hard unselfish efforts, then you don’t play. Simple.

As such my biggest concerns is this is an ongoing problem and I’m not sure how we turn this around without really tough questions being asked and desire to make change. We’re a mile off being an elite organisation.

Rant over.

Not a rant at all in fact you’ve summarised what’s holding us back precisely. We are still a very long way behind the competition when it comes to high performance, quite disappointing given we’ve had the supposedly “best in the business” High Performance Manager at the club for 6 years. I really haven’t been able to take us seriously since the Hawks loss. The way we mismanaged the injury list through the period from the Geelong win to that loss was absolute rank amateur stuff.

Then just when you think it can’t get any worse Voss declares post game TDK was picked to be the sub because they knew he didn’t have the fitness to get thru the whole game…a FINAL. And just to top it off, in almost the same breath Voss also spent a lot lauding Doc for his comeback, even though he played terrible. It was pretty clear Doc was picked to give the boys a lift. That sort of stuff is for feel good kids sport movies, not real life elite professional sports leagues. Comical.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Nope. My own fake quote.

This side is unaccountable.

I’m glad you clarified. Hate to think Walshy would have said that.

 

[RPCB]

I’m glad you clarified. Hate to think Walshy would have said that.

Sorry for not clarifying. This side needs some major changes. They have several very good players, but they keep having those massive slumps every year. Not good enough.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

It would be great if these players got fair dinkum. They pretend to be serious. Look at the condition some of these guys turn up in. Williams. McGovern. They’re just not fair dinkum.

I would say this group needs to be turned over and just start again.

When you lose so often when it matters….you become a loser. We have too many losers.

Let’s be real. Everyone knew McKay would miss that goal before half time didn’t they? Where’s your brain mate?

We are so slow. They act like they fix speed with recruiting endurance runners.

Do something club. Do something.

Have an honest conversation. With the slow players. The injured ones. The recruiters. The coaches.

Make some ****ing changes.

Been saying this for a long time. Its the players.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Obviously plucking out a name or two in a flogging doesn’t seem significant.

Our last two games saw us play a refreshed team willing to dig in for four quarters. The changes we made can have a deflating impact on the group.

Last night we went back to unfit ‘name’ players and got the same old predictable result.

The name players keep getting us the same results. This is our problem. We need to stop selecting them.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

He left his one day old baby to fly up to Brisbane and was subbed out ahead of players who were performing much worse.
Not to mention he's also one of the very few positionally versatile players on the team.

TDK as sub and subbing Kennedy off were baffling decisions.

Fathers have been leaving their day old babies for centuries to get back to work. Having a day old baby doesnt excuse a terrible performance from him.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Sorry for not clarifying. This side needs some major changes. They have several very good players, but they keep having those massive slumps every year. Not good enough.

You know I’m hurting as much as any Carlton supporter at the minute. The expectations have been high since Voss arrived at the club. The win/loss record has been frustrating. The peaks and troughs have created hysteria when things have gone well and utter despair when we’ve lost the opportunities. That sought of mania takes a toll. I don’t know if we’ll turn this around however I’m prepared for change that will hopefully achieve it. We need courage on and off the field. There’s been joy in the last 3 years but something that I can’t quantify has to change. I’ll be looking for it in the next 6 months.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I still don't believe it was the difference

The Saints play a completely different brand of footy, one that suits our style and make up better

The Lions play more of a, win and to the outside as quickly as possible

Then you have the Eagles who are just a poor side

IMHO, the focus for Voss now, is who is fully committed to buy in, otherwise he and the club need to make tough calls

This

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I believe the Lions have a better list balance. The likes of Lohmann, Morris, Rayner are better impact types



Saints want the game on the outside too, but their mid setup up is similar to ours, contested types trying to be spread types


If the Lions, or any side get it on their terms, they are strong enough to beat good sides

But, suspect they will struggle against GWS

Would kill for these two in our team

 

[AB_Blue]

Haven’t really vented much but I’ve managed to read just about every post and there’s really nothing much to add

Ultimately the game was a reflection on our July and August form… and perhaps the stubbornness and loyalty by the coach to his core group of players

In Hindsight no we should not of made 6 changes to the side that busted a gut for 2 weeks whilst we rebuilt what was left from the season….only McKay and TKD get a tick from the 6 ins….like i said Thursday we’ve picked a great side on paper…..

Just embarrassed overall that we turned up in a final with a half fit side and expected things to work out for us

 

[GoBlues!]

We'll play finals again next year, but to go deeper, we need to make the right list changes, play the committed, tweak the gameplan based on the new composition of the list

We did well last year to make and win two finals. What changes did we make this year?

We brought in Elijah who was handy and Fantasia who was okay, but realistically didn’t give us a step change we needed.

Not sure a few tweaks and demanding more committed play is going to give us the improvement we need to be a top 4 side tbh arrow.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I haven’t calmed down yet. I’m not going to repeat a lot of what already has been outlined by many, as it’s pointless.

What I will say;
For those like me that backed the coach and selections before the game - I’m sorry.
For those that raised their concerns at selections - you were right.

I need time to get my head around from this train wreck!

 

[AndyLucimitis]

As expected, have heard 2nd /3rd hand from another player that Chugga is very dirty on being subbed and hasn’t heard from any of the coaches as to why.

Won’t be leaving the Blues but will let them know he is not happy at exit meeting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KennyHuntersBlues]

2 things that really leaves me irate
1. Our positioning around stoppages ( particularly in the defensive 50 ) is often abysmal. We don’t cover the 360 degrees around the stoppage and leave open space on at least one side that the opposition inevitably uses to break clear and create run with no physical pressure on them
2. Hardly anyone ever leads at the ball carrier no matter where on the ground which ends up with the player in possession of the ball deciding to just bomb it high and long. You don’t need to be a tall player to mark the ball on the lead and it is almost impossible to spoil if you get the ball put in front of you where you can run on to it. It also creates space behind you.
Especially in the forward line you need to make multiple leads and even if you are not the target you can create space around you but most of the time everyone in our forward line is either too dumb or too lazy to lead and all just stand still with their hand up in the air calling for it making it easy for opposition defenders. I would really love to see us employ a new forwards coach who actually played there successfully and knows what they are doing. Maybe someone like a Matthew Lloyd or Stevie J or someone similar

 

[RPCB]

You know I’m hurting as much as any Carlton supporter at the minute. The expectations have been high since Voss arrived at the club. The win/loss record has been frustrating. The peaks and troughs have created hysteria when things have gone well and utter despair when we’ve lost the opportunities. That sought of mania takes a toll. I don’t know if we’ll turn this around however I’m prepared for change that will hopefully achieve it. We need courage on and off the field. There’s been joy in the last 3 years but something that I can’t quantify has to change. I’ll be looking for it in the next 6 months.

If we combine our W/L between Round 11 and 23 2022, Round 5 and 13 2023 and finally Round 17 and Round 24 2024. If we combine our W/L record using only those Rounds in the last 3 years, we were 6-21.

This is largely the same playing group for all 3 years. They’ve literally collapsed on their arses for 3 straight years.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

If we combine our W/L between Round 11 and 23 2022, Round 5 and 13 2023 and finally Round 17 and Round 24 2024. If we combine our W/L record using only those Rounds in the last 3 years, we were 6-21.

This is largely the same playing group for all 3 years. They’ve literally collapsed on their arses for 3 straight years.

I understand that but if you look at our turnaround from the Gold Coast game in 2023 up until the Richmond game in 2024 the win loss is 20-6. In smaller samples it was 8-2 in 2022, 11-2 in 2023 and 11-4 in 2024. The inconsistency is baffling. No excuses. The stats are baked in. The challenge is to change this next season.

 

[jj1978]

Been saying this for a long time. Its the players.

I don't think we can say that. A lot of them prepare themselves very professionally;

Cripps, Walsh, Acres, Weitering, Doc, Newman for example.

I'd only say McGov, Motlop, Williams and Elijah are the questionable ones in terms of body, diet and physio who would all probably be more available even better if they can get that sorted.

The only thing I can say for the list is as a collective is mental resilience and footy IQ.

The footy IQ is guided by coach(es). Don't try to teach Quantum mechanics to a 10 year old. Up to the coach(es) to identify how to get through to their list.

Mental resilience improves when buy in occurs to a game-plan they can identify with and execute with results and coach(es) they trust.