Discussion 2024 General AFL Discussion

[bergholt]

If I remember correctly, we had Caldwell on the hook, ready to come down after agreeing to terms. And then we snared Brad Crouch and tried to reduce the terms of Caldwell's offer due to our lessened desperation, and he walked away disgusted, and now it is a proud Bomber who ridicules Saints players when they talk about their special commemorative jumpers, so I think that ship has sailed. Shame really.

It’s a perfect example of short term vs long term decision making. I like Crouch and he’s been pretty good for us but he was always a short term decision. We did that to be more competitive for a few years at the expense of the future. It failed. Ideally we wouldn’t do that sort of thing this time around.

 

[pebblesofsand]

If I remember correctly, we had Caldwell on the hook, ready to come down after agreeing to terms. And then we snared Brad Crouch and tried to reduce the terms of Caldwell's offer due to our lessened desperation, and he walked away disgusted, and now it is a proud Bomber who ridicules Saints players when they talk about their special commemorative jumpers, so I think that ship has sailed. Shame really.

Nearly but not quite.

Caldwell was joining us on a 4 yr contract, his manager then got Essendon involved, we got Crouch, Essendon offered 5 yrs @ around $550k.

Sensibly we said no to that sort of contract for a player who'd only played 11 games in 2 years for GWS and at the time had chronic soft tissue problems

Plays some good games this year so we all get our knickers in a knot and forget about very expensive contributions for his first 3 years with Essendon.

 

[bergholt]

Nearly but not quite.

Caldwell was joining us on a 4 yr contract, his manager then got Essendon involved, we got Crouch, Essendon offered 5 yrs @ around $550k.

Sensibly we said no to that sort of contract for a player who'd only played 11 games in 2 years for GWS and at the time had chronic soft tissue problems

Plays some good games this year so we all get our knickers in a knot and forget about very expensive contributions for his first 3 years with Essendon.

View attachment 2039661

He was just 20 when the trade happened and a talented pick 11 with some injury problems. Would have been a bit of a gamble but not a huge one, especially at not much above league average salary. People on here were disappointed at the time.

 

[gringo2011]

From memory we were close but he nominated Essendon. Saints fan too. Turns out that stuff doesn’t matter to some players.

My mate's nephew is mates with him. We had him then Essendon came with a late better offer. His manager went back to Gags to try to get him to match and we just stopped communicating with them after we got Crouch signed on.

He'd told all his family and friends that he was going to play at St Kilda so would have been pretty embarrassing to get hung out to dry by us.

 

[pebblesofsand]

He was just 20 when the trade happened and a talented pick 11 with some injury problems. Would have been a bit of a gamble but not a huge one, especially at not much above league average salary. People on here were disappointed at the time.

4 years was enough of a gamble for someone who was struggling to get on the park and hadn't shown that much at GWS.

 

[pebblesofsand]

My mate's nephew is mates with him. We had him then Essendon came with a late better offer. His manager went back to Gags to try to get him to match and we just stopped communicating with them after we got Crouch signed on.

He'd told all his family and friends that he was going to play at St Kilda so would have been pretty embarrassing to get hung out to dry by us.

So we had him, he was happy to be going to the Saints on an agreed 4 year deal, then he went somewhere else for more money.

If that's embarrassing (which it isn't - given its his livelyhood) its only for one party and its not St Kilda.

 

[gringo2011]

So we had him, he was happy to be going to the Saints on an agreed 4 year deal, then he went somewhere else for more money.

If that's embarrassing (which it isn't - given its his livelyhood) its only for one party and its not St Kilda.

Embarrassing that we stopped communicating. That's how you break good will with player managers.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Decisions are easy in hindsight.

• We got crouch as a free agent so cost no draft capital. Caldwell cost Essendon pick 29 + a future 2nd (for a 3 and 5th rd back)
• Crouch has played some excellent footy at the club and was a key part of us making finals last year. And no one in the wildest dreams could have foretold he would be broken down at 30.
• the club would have expected to challenge for finals multiples times through his tenure.
• as mentioned above the kid hadn’t played many games, had injury history + was chasing more money than he had demonstrated he was worth. Signing him on major overs would have been a gamble. Which knowing our track record could have gone pear shaped (I.e Nathan Freeman
  Nathan Freeman

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  CL

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  No current season stats available

  D

  16.5

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  K

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  HB

  8.5

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  3.0

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  )
• there’s plenty of former first round picks who’ve left the suns/giants for overs and turned out mediocre (I.e Aiden Corr)

Plenty of decisions the club has made we can be critical of but I don’t think this is one.

 

[gringo2011]

Decisions are easy in hindsight.

• We got crouch as a free agent so cost no draft capital. Caldwell cost Essendon pick 29 + a future 2nd (for a 3 and 5th rd back)
• Crouch has played some excellent footy at the club and was a key part of us making finals last year. And no one in the wildest dreams could have foretold he would be broken down at 30.
• the club would have expected to challenge for finals multiples times through his tenure.
• as mentioned above the kid hadn’t played many games, had injury history + was chasing more money than he had demonstrated he was worth. Signing him on major overs would have been a gamble. Which knowing our track record could have gone pear shaped (I.e Nathan Freeman)
• there’s plenty of former first round picks who’ve left the suns/giants for overs and turned out mediocre (I.e Aiden Corr)

Plenty of decisions the club has made we can be critical of but I don’t think this is one.

List management was terrible and short sighted under Gags, should have had some young mids coming in behind in development. That's literally the job. Build a list capable of challenging with depth cover and youth coming up underneath. When you are out of a finals cycle you push more youth in.

Crouch wasn't a bad decision but not having depth behind is a massive problem.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It’s a perfect example of short term vs long term decision making. I like Crouch and he’s been pretty good for us but he was always a short term decision. We did that to be more competitive for a few years at the expense of the future. It failed. Ideally we wouldn’t do that sort of thing this time around.

What we should have done, was get Crouch ( who didn't cost us a draft pick ) and then develop a young player to play that role.
We neglected to recruit a young player. Bytel was the type we needed, but Bytel wasn't a good enough player.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Embarrassing that we stopped communicating. That's how you break good will with player managers.

Possibly, but player managers may also need to learn that setting up an auction to the highest bidder won't always go their way either.
It depends how much he'd already agreed to in principal.
Saints are managing the cap , and it all seems fine, then next thing the price has gone up.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Embarrassing that we stopped communicating. That's how you break good will with player managers.

Good player managers shouldn't agree to terms and then run off to another club to try and up the ante.

Everything I've read (and everything you've said) suggests that the Saints and Caldwell had agreed to $'s and years. Knowing this we then moved onto Crouch and committed X $'s and years to him because we now know how much we've got to spend after getting Caldwell over the line..

Caldwell's manager then comes back and says no - forget what I said - we want more.

Saints then probably go - sorry mate - we've committed money elsewhere now and its bad form to renege on deals so we can't move on the agreed offer and if that's not good enough then don't waste any more of our time.

 

[gringo2011]

Possibly, but player managers may also need to learn that setting up an auction to the highest bidder won't always go their way either.
It depends how much he'd already agreed to in principal.
Saints are managing the cap , and it all seems fine, then next thing the price has gone up.

It’s been that way for ever. It’s like complaining about how stupid handballs are in footy. The system is and always has been that managers entertain offers and put them to their players. Clubs keep upping until someone is out.

 

[gringo2011]

Good player managers shouldn't agree to terms and then run off to another club to try and up the ante.

Everything I've read (and everything you've said) suggests that the Saints and Caldwell had agreed to $'s and years. Knowing this we then moved onto Crouch and committed X $'s and years to him because we now know how much we've got to spend after getting Caldwell over the line..

Caldwell's manager then comes back and says no - forget what I said - we want more.

Saints then probably go - sorry mate - we've committed money elsewhere now and its bad form to renege on deals so we can't move on the agreed offer and if that's not good enough then don't waste any more of our time.

Saints stopped communication completely.

 

[Verdun66]

So we fight Port all the way last week. Ugly, but they did us by 2 points. Now they are completely torching the much better credentialled Dogs. Butters and Rozee running wild. But the narrative will always be against us.

Port were under the pump and massively motivated for their coach. And we probably should have won it.

 

[Nutsngum]

Saints stopped communication completely.

I doubt that a lot. Thats called exaggeration Gringo.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Embarrassing that we stopped communicating. That's how you break good will with player managers.

Yep. Wasn’t a great look.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Thought the port/dogs game would be the choice but I've turned over to norf/suns and I must say it's been rather entertaining.

 

[Joffaboy]

Good player managers shouldn't agree to terms and then run off to another club to try and up the ante.

Everything I've read (and everything you've said) suggests that the Saints and Caldwell had agreed to $'s and years. Knowing this we then moved onto Crouch and committed X $'s and years to him because we now know how much we've got to spend after getting Caldwell over the line..

Caldwell's manager then comes back and says no - forget what I said - we want more.

Saints then probably go - sorry mate - we've committed money elsewhere now and its bad form to renege on deals so we can't move on the agreed offer and if that's not good enough then don't waste any more of our time.

. The manager was too smart by half. Seems like he was the one who broke the agreement.
I am proud the club didn't fold to such low grade unprofessionalism.
Anyway Caldwell is a spud IMO.


On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Remboy]

Good player managers shouldn't agree to terms and then run off to another club to try and up the ante.

Everything I've read (and everything you've said) suggests that the Saints and Caldwell had agreed to $'s and years. Knowing this we then moved onto Crouch and committed X $'s and years to him because we now know how much we've got to spend after getting Caldwell over the line..

Caldwell's manager then comes back and says no - forget what I said - we want more.

Saints then probably go - sorry mate - we've committed money elsewhere now and its bad form to renege on deals so we can't move on the agreed offer and if that's not good enough then don't waste any more of our time.

I thought it was less about the money and more the fact that once we got Crouch Caldwell realised he might have to work harder to get a game.

 

[gringo2011]

I doubt that a lot. Thats called exaggeration Gringo.

This guy is a close mate and would know. Reckons we just stopped talking to them.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Join in the MotherF**King chorus flogs

 

[Plugger35]

The Dogs getting flogged by Port and the Suns losing to North.

I can't wait to see the so called footy media experts hang shit on them after talking them up like they hung shit on us last week.

 

[StFly]

Suns still can't travel, Dogs are just a cluster at present.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Suns still can't travel, Dogs are just a cluster at present.

I reckon the suns get lost at thier arrival airport.

It's hard to find the skybus from T3 at Melbourne