List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[gbatman]

Don't see him ever playing as a wingman, doesn't have the attributes. Played most of his junior footy as a defender, but most don't lock down hard at that level

He is better offensively, because he isn't disciplined and or have the IQ as a defender, so I think as a forward it would suit him and the side

Most coaches are rigid, but, Williams forward, (also not a wingman) and Cincotta as a cooler have been decent changes

We might see a different side this week with the inclusion of some better cogs, but we are certainly in a form slump when it comes to full team commitment

He's fast, he's a good endurance runner. His ground level game is good and his footy IQ is good. He also wins a fair bit of the ball if given freedom. He also has all the attributes to drop back inside D50 and help the defence as a lose man. IMO he has all the attributes of the type of wingman we want.

He's not a strong spoiler. This limits who he can play on as a defender. The coach looks at him as a 192cm player and puts him on talls. That's not his go. He's a runner. He plays smaller than what he is. He doesn't particularly play very tall even thought he takes a few intercept marks. IMO he's a lot like Cripps in that he's a tall man but doesn't play tall, he plays smaller than what he is.

As a defender he should be played half back flank or possibly back pocket.

Maybe we would have taken these measures if we didn't have the injuries.

Williams forward was a tick and Cincotta has been ok.

Brett Ratten for all his criticism was a good coach at repositioning players and getting it right. I think we lack the brains in our coaching department. We have the brawn and all the rest but tactics and player talent identification isn't always that great.

 

[gbatman]

The point being, they had just won a premiership and still had a Million $$$$ to address a need.

We haven’t won anything and don’t seem to have any $$$$$.

Yet all indications suggest otherwise.

 

[Soapy V]

He's fast, he's a good endurance runner. His ground level game is good and his footy IQ is good. He also wins a fair bit of the ball if given freedom. He also has all the attributes to drop back inside D50 and help the defence as a lose man. IMO he has all the attributes of the type of wingman we want.

He's not a strong spoiler. This limits who he can play on as a defender. The coach looks at him as a 192cm player and puts him on talls. That's not his go. He's a runner. He plays smaller than what he is. He doesn't particularly play very tall even thought he takes a few intercept marks. IMO he's a lot like Cripps in that he's a tall man but doesn't play tall, he plays smaller than what he is.

As a defender he should be played half back flank or possibly back pocket.

Maybe we would have taken these measures if we didn't have the injuries.

Williams forward was a tick and Cincotta has been ok.

Brett Ratten for all his criticism was a good coach at repositioning players and getting it right. I think we lack the brains in our coaching department. We have the brawn and all the rest but tactics and player talent identification isn't always that great.

Very balanced and argued. Well said

 

[DangerousD]

Last year Cook did a presentation to our major sponsors/supporters. I’m reliably told that he showed them that although 2022 was tight, that by 2024 we will be in good position to chase any player we felt we needed

This was a priority for Cook. I have faith he will have it under control. He did a great job with it at the Cats

The proof will be in the pudding. Last year after losing a prelim, we moved on a contracted player with two years on a deal and moved on a fringe mid who would have been on average $$$$.

We brought in a mid struggling at his existing club and had been arrested on a drugs charge.

These seemed like moves designed to balance the books which is fine, we have locked away very important players and you can’t have excess money every year.

But if we go in to another trade period with the list holes we still have and we don’t address them, then that tells a different story.

 

[Arr0w]

The point being, they had just won a premiership and still had a Million $$$$ to address a need.

We haven’t won anything and don’t seem to have any $$$$$.

Took the Tigers a number of seasons of playing finals before they won a flag, no side has the same philosophy on list builds as there are so many variables

Acres, Elijah, Cincotta, Boyd have been great, cheap options. Better bang for buck than many of higher wage acquisitions

We will have some reasonable coin this year if we are targeting certain types

 

[DangerousD]

Yet all indications suggest otherwise.

What indications are they?

Our actions in the trade period last year didn’t scream, had money to attract players.

 

[gbatman]

Last year Cook did a presentation to our major sponsors/supporters. I’m reliably told that he showed them that although 2022 was tight, that by 2024 we will be in good position to chase any player we felt we needed

This was a priority for Cook. I have faith he will have it under control. He did a great job with it at the Cats

I don't doubt it.

A lot of people on here don't understand how to manage a salary cap.

We have overpaid a lot of players and that has helped us manage the salaries of other players.

You have to meet minimum player payments but not overpay the long term players on your list ever. This is why some get overpaid.

You pay extra to Martin, Williams and McGovern. So Charlie, Harry and Cripps salaries don't get out of control early.

We have done this well IMO.

You also pay 100% of your cap every year because it cuts down on what you are paying in future seasons. So yes, people are going to see Carlton paying 100% of their cap each season and report our salary cap is bursting when really, this is exactly what good salary cap management looks like.

I think cap is something we have done a great job on, particularly as we have plenty of high level individuals.

We continue to sign required player.

We continue to put forward big offers to opposition players.

I have a lot of faith in what we are doing. Unfortunately because of our history, any time the media can put 'Carlton' and 'salary cap' in a headline they will. Even though all well run clubs will have similar cap situations.

the cap could be tight in 2024, it's probably not. That does not stop us signing up high profile players on big money. How long are contracts? 4-6 years? As long as the cap is not tight over too many of those years we are fine. You pay those players in the years that aren't tight, fill in the gaps so to speak.

I'm with you, Cook will have this under control.

 

[Soapy V]

I don't doubt it.

A lot of people on here don't understand how to manage a salary cap.

We have overpaid a lot of players and that has helped us manage the salaries of other players.

You have to meet minimum player payments but not overpay the long term players on your list ever. This is why some get overpaid.

You pay extra to Martin, Williams and McGovern. So Charlie, Harry and Cripps salaries don't get out of control early.

We have done this well IMO.

You also pay 100% of your cap every year because it cuts down on what you are paying in future seasons. So yes, people are going to see Carlton paying 100% of their cap each season and report our salary cap is bursting when really, this is exactly what good salary cap management looks like.

I think cap is something we have done a great job on, particularly as we have plenty of high level individuals.

We continue to sign required player.

We continue to put forward big offers to opposition players.

I have a lot of faith in what we are doing. Unfortunately because of our history, any time the media can put 'Carlton' and 'salary cap' in a headline they will. Even though all well run clubs will have similar cap situations.

the cap could be tight in 2024, it's probably not. That does not stop us signing up high profile players on big money. How long are contracts? 4-6 years? As long as the cap is not tight over too many of those years we are fine. You pay those players in the years that aren't tight, fill in the gaps so to speak.

I'm with you, Cook will have this under control.

Austin was interviewed just before mid season draft

He said we would take just one player as spots are at a premium and hoped to bring in some more players at years end. I took that as mature players

If we offered Hayward the numbers talked about and so early in the year we are fine.

Like you said. Cook will have it under control. I have no doubt

 

[Arr0w]

He's fast, he's a good endurance runner.

Reasonable endurance, but that lacks other aspects

His ground level game is good and his footy IQ is good.

His footy IQ is poor

He also wins a fair bit of the ball if given freedom.

He misreads the game, club has been frustrated that he isn't playing the percentages

He also has all the attributes to drop back inside D50 and help the defence as a lose man. IMO he has all the attributes of the type of wingman we want.

I disagree, don't think he has the discipline or the IQ

He's not a strong spoiler. This limits who he can play on as a defender. The coach looks at him as a 192cm player and puts him on talls.

He is just shy of 195

That's not his go. He's a runner. He plays smaller than what he is. He doesn't particularly play very tall even thought he takes a few intercept marks. IMO he's a lot like Cripps in that he's a tall man but doesn't play tall, he plays smaller than what he is.

As a defender he should be played half back flank or possibly back pocket.

He would get killed by a smaller forward, he isn't a McGovern type

Maybe we would have taken these measures if we didn't have the injuries.

Maybe, I'd like to see him trialled as a forward in the VFL

Williams forward was a tick and Cincotta has been ok.

Brett Ratten for all his criticism was a good coach at repositioning players and getting it right.

Rats has had a couple of stints as a coach, never really worked out

I think we lack the brains in our coaching department.

Saw this stated mid last year, then it completely disappeared. It's now resurfaced through a poor patch and it will disappear again soon enough

We have the brawn and all the rest but tactics and player talent identification isn't always that great.

Which side gets it right year on year

 

[Aphrodite]

Oliver!

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Boy, Darcy Wilmott would be an incredible addition for us. We need to get creative.

 

[Arr0w]

What indications are they?

Our actions in the trade period last year didn’t scream, had money to attract players.

Our cap was tight last year, better position now, but we need to also extend a couple, but think that will come from senior delistings

 

[DangerousD]

Took the Tigers a number of seasons of playing finals before they won a flag, no side has the same philosophy on list builds as there are so many variables

Acres, Elijah, Cincotta, Boyd have been great, cheap options. Better bang for buck than many of higher wage acquisitions

We will have some reasonable coin this year if we are targeting certain types

The four mentioned players have been really good pickups and it’s too early to make any definitive statements on our season so far, still plenty to play out, but our inability last year to address list needs could really cost us, we are still 2nd and the team above us were real aggressive last trade period. If you stay still in this comp, you will get overtaken.

But It still doesn’t change my position, that a side that has played one finals series in a decade should have a tight cap.
I understand we can’t splash $$$ every year and some years you need to balance the books, I see last year being one of those, if this year we are more aggressive, then I’ll happily change my view.

Based on what I see and read in the media, I think Austin over pays trade wise and going off the reported Williams deal, it’s easy to make the connection he over pays $$$$ wise too, but this is just an opinion formed on not much.

 

[Arr0w]

The four mentioned players have been really good pickups and it’s too early to make any definitive statements on our season so far, still plenty to play out, but our inability last year to address list needs could really cost us, we are still 2nd and the team above us were real aggressive last trade period. If you stay still in this comp, you will get overtaken.

But It still doesn’t change my position, that a side that has played one finals series in a decade should have a tight cap.
I understand we can’t splash $$$ every year and some years you need to balance the books, I see last year being one of those, if this year we are more aggressive, then I’ll happily change my view.

Based on what I see and read in the media, I think Austin over pays trade wise and going off the reported Williams deal, it’s easy to make the connection he over pays $$$$ wise too, but this is just an opinion formed on not much.

Considering the age of recent flag sides, I think we are still okay, but we do need to address some glaring hole this and next year

Think the Williams deal has hurt us most

 

[DangerousD]

Reasonable endurance, but that lacks other aspects


His footy IQ is poor


He misreads the game, club has been frustrated that he isn't playing the percentages


I disagree, don't think he has the discipline or the IQ


He is just shy of 195


He would get killed by a smaller forward, he isn't a McGovern type


Maybe, I'd like to see him trialled as a forward in the VFL


Rats has had a couple of stints as a coach, never really worked out


Saw this stated mid last year, then it completely disappeared. It's now resurfaced through a poor patch and it will disappear again soon enough


Which side gets it right year on year

If all this being the case, would you ask him to explore his options?

 

[Soapy V]

The four mentioned players have been really good pickups and it’s too early to make any definitive statements on our season so far, still plenty to play out, but our inability last year to address list needs could really cost us, we are still 2nd and the team above us were real aggressive last trade period. If you stay still in this comp, you will get overtaken.

But It still doesn’t change my position, that a side that has played one finals series in a decade should have a tight cap.
I understand we can’t splash $$$ every year and some years you need to balance the books, I see last year being one of those, if this year we are more aggressive, then I’ll happily change my view.

Based on what I see and read in the media, I think Austin over pays trade wise and going off the reported Williams deal, it’s easy to make the connection he over pays $$$$ wise too, but this is just an opinion formed on not much.

I’d still like to know why we extend the contracts of C.Durdin for 2 years after this one and Cottrell for 3 more years until 2027 especially early in the season

Makes no sense to me

 

[Arr0w]

If all this being the case, would you ask him to explore his options?

Not yet, trial him as a forward first, an extended block

 

[DangerousD]

Boy, Darcy Wilmott would be an incredible addition for us. We need to get creative.

He was a late pick up on draft night, saw the footage when he was picked, he and his friends went off, he seemed like a real lose unit, joker type of guy, I wonder if that put people off, his highlights looked great.

 

[DangerousD]

Considering the age of recent flag sides, I think we are still okay, but we do need to address some glaring hole this and next year

Think the Williams deal has hurt us most

The Pies took huge heat by trading Treloar and Grundy, both ripping players who would elevate any team because their contracts were hurting their ability to add to the list.

Why wouldn’t we look at Williams?

 

[Arr0w]

The Pies took huge heat by trading Treloar and Grundy, both ripping players who would elevate any team because their contracts were hurting their ability to add to the list.

Why wouldn’t we look at Williams?

Could still be an option, who knows

 

[BlueJet]

I remember people saying we failed with Dow and Stocker, that both would embarrass the club when they carve it up in the middle at another club, how has that worked out?

Some even suggested we should play Fogarty or Durdin in a BP, bizarre

I'd like to see Kemp developed as a 3rd tall forward, perhaps take some centre bounces, but he isn't a mid, and certainly not a wingman

I see things re:Kemp a little differently to the Stocker & Dow chat, in that they had clear deficiencies that would always hold them back to some degree.
IMO Kemp's issue is more based on role. If we played him in a role more similar to that of McGovern or even Boyd/Cowan, it'd play him to his strengths & he would often benefit from the mismatch, rather than being expected to tame gorillas where he'll struggle one out.
He's got some attributes that could see him deployed elsewhere but what I've always liked was his ability to intercept & take the game on from d50.
When played at FB or CHB he loses an attacking edge & seems to go into his shell.

 

[LanceRomance]

Lever would be nice.

Lever is ancient

 

[Arr0w]

I see things re:Kemp a little differently to the Stocker & Dow chat, in that they had clear deficiencies that would always hold them back to some degree.
IMO Kemp's issue is more based on role. If we played him in a role more similar to that of McGovern or even Boyd/Cowan, it'd play him to his strengths & he would often benefit from the mismatch, rather than being expected to tame gorillas where he'll struggle one out.
He's got some attributes that could see him deployed elsewhere but what I've always liked was his ability to intercept & take the game on from d50.
When played at FB or CHB he loses an attacking edge & seems to go into his shell.

I actually think he can play on the bigger forwards, but needs to focus and embrace on team ethos acts

 

[BlueJet]

What indications are they?

Our actions in the trade period last year didn’t scream, had money to attract players.

It seems to be based on the pursuit of Hayward.
Which with the amount of ooc players that we have, of course we could create some room. (Martin+Owies out = Hayward)
With Weiters & TDK looking at new contracts though, I can't see there being a significant amount of room to work with tbh.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I’d still like to know why we extend the contracts of C.Durdin for 2 years after this one and Cottrell for 3 more years until 2027 especially early in the season

Makes no sense to me

I think you need to know how much they are being paid first (like Pittonet). Cottrell atleast will always be good depth. Durdin I imagine they backed in his potential which sadly doesn’t look like a good decision to this point