List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Pommylovescarlton]

Cheers.

The lack of clarity from the AFL is farcical. It should be so simple.

So according to your info, if you have a 3rd Cat B, you sacrifice a Cat A spot, ie the total is still max 44?
After the reports that we had signed both Irish as Cat B, I asked David Zita on a chatboard about it, he said both would be signed as Cat B, but 1 would be listed as Cat A. I guess it equates to the same thing, if it's still a max 44, not 45.

My understanding from a list manager when I queried last year why dogs had 3 (I knew GWS got special dispensation) and the others he said it's 44 and you'd effectively have 1 less rookie A (unless long term injury) so it's 44 as normal.

My understanding as to why this occurs is it's off books effectively at minium wage and generally speaking it occurs to allow an end goal (in this case the Irish connection)

Generally as a former golf guy, I never have or will take Intel from journos if it's a gossip game (means they don't care about the product only the likes) as in my time here everything they've past on I've now forgotten.

But as I understand it at this stage and going off official documentation (a lot of public record is press release blurb) and historical use of Irish rules since the rejog of cat B seems one will be listed as international and one Irish but they'll for salary cap purposes be Cat B.

At a guess Zita may have gone with what cal Twomey went and someone needs upgrading as carlton had zero interest in any free agents (lot of journos went with 3 promotions) could have been that. But generally speaking now Carlton don't speak with the media since Voss and Austin generally speaking is tighter than a frogs bum when it comes to innuendo

 

[NYCFC]

Okay, now I understand where you are coming from in regards to Austin

For me, being a tough negotiatior while important isn't the number one trait of a list manager

I believe it's using the limited resources at your disposal to build a balanced list, a list that was far from balanced when he took over and now has a better quality of player in that 14-28 range

I don't see what Austin has delivered at this point as an overwhelming success, as you constantly need to improve/regenerate your list, but he is not even in the same postcode as failing to deliver on outcomes during his tenure

Not one single acquisition trade or draft of note could be considered a failure, but some positions need more evidence to judge the likelihood of success

The word BALANCE seems key here. Seems like the role of list manager is a pretty complex one, and managing a list requires multitudes of interconnected decisions over a period of time.

But once a year, the list manager has a very visible aspect to their job (trade negotiations) that the AFL hypes up to generate interest in the off-season. And I guess it's understandable if supporters look at a list managers worth as what they publicly do during that two week period.

I don't need my list manager to play alpha male for two weeks of the year and 'win' a big trade to prove themselves. I need to see a strong, balanced list capable of competing for top 4 and that list constantly being regenerated as successfully as possible within a system designed to make that difficult to do.

I haven't seen anything yet from Austin that suggests he's not capable of being able to do that. He still has to do it, obviously.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

FWIW, caught up with a current Port player recently and when I noted my apprehension re the durability of Orazio, he was quite emphatic that his body is as good as it’s been for a while, noting his ability to play 5 or 6 consecutive games for Port’s SANFL team at the back end of this year. His confidence was immense and he also noted he’ll be “big” for the Blues.

Let’s hope he’s right.

 

[Michael Jezz]

3 'new' recruits coming into the squad for 2024 - Zac Williams, Elijah Hollands and Orazio Fantasia.

That's a pretty handy group of players that we spent a total of less than a 3rd round pick on.

Williams, Hollands, Fantasia are not only new recruits, they fill gaps in our best 22. Massive Pearce, Clape, Hogg and Rice vibes

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

To be honest I don't think we lost much giving pick 8 for Saad rather then splitting the pick (even if we could). 2020 was a crapshoot with no underage afl played in Vic. Just look at the players drafted from our pick onwards.

We ended up getting pick 7 (Hollands) from that draft 3 years on for almost nothing. Despite him having achieved little so far I would still take him before most of those taken between pick 10-20.

Saad was worth 8 easily.

 

[passmark]

Do we think the Orazio get was a last minute thing or something we've been looking at for a while?

If it's the latter I'm quite impressed there was not even a sniff that it was happening.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Do we think the Orazio get was a last minute thing or something we've been looking at for a while?

If it's the latter I'm quite impressed there was not even a sniff that it was happening.

I think it was soap that alluded to a couple of possible mature age pickups.
But not sure if orazio was one of them?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Do we think the Orazio get was a last minute thing or something we've been looking at for a while?

If it's the latter I'm quite impressed there was not even a sniff that it was happening.

I guess the fact that he looked Giants bound suggests it was a late swing of the bat by us. I do think we would have been keeping up to date with his manager and you'd consider our status to be 'having a sniff' for a couple of months, rather that declaring a full blown interest. Voss would have been watching his comeback from injury.

But first we had to have Port delist him so wouldn't have planned anything unless we were told that was happening.

I think it's just as noteworthy that we had a need and swept the rug out from under the Giants. We did well not to get into a bidding war for a high risk acquisition.

One thing this shows is that we are going in all guns blazing for a flag within 2 years.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Do we think the Orazio get was a last minute thing or something we've been looking at for a while?

If it's the latter I'm quite impressed there was not even a sniff that it was happening.

Reading the tear leaves, I reckon Fantasia was probably informed during the trade period that he wouldn't be offered a new contract, and that he should explore his options.

Talk that Essendon and GWS were sniffing around. Possible that his manager, or Fantasia himself, reached out to a few clubs where he had contacts? Saad and Voss with us, Essendon being his former club, maybe Brett Montgomery at GWS who was an assistant through a fair bit of his time at Port?

Might have just been that the interest from us was immediate, that he liked us as a prospective club, and things moved very quickly from there.

 

[passmark]

His highlight packages are absolutely top draw.
Forgotten how good he was (or maybe I never realised because I hate that mob of campaigners at * so much I always gave him the * downgrade)

 

[BigFrizz36]

Reading the tear leaves, I reckon Fantasia was probably informed during the trade period that he wouldn't be offered a new contract, and that he should explore his options.

Talk that Essendon and GWS were sniffing around. Possible that his manager, or Fantasia himself, reached out to a few clubs where he had contacts? Saad and Voss with us, Essendon being his former club, maybe Brett Montgomery at GWS who was an assistant through a fair bit of his time at Port?

Might have just been that the interest from us was immediate, that he liked us as a prospective club, and things moved very quickly from there.

I think that the tear leaves will come from hiving to listen to B.T. when he calls our games when Orazio is playing.

 

[JuddgementDay]

I guess the fact that he looked Giants bound suggests it was a late swing of the bat by us. I do think we would have been keeping up to date with his manager and you'd consider our status to be 'having a sniff' for a couple of months, rather that declaring a full blown interest. Voss would have been watching his comeback from injury.

But first we had to have Port delist him so wouldn't have planned anything unless we were told that was happening.

I think it's just as noteworthy that we had a need and swept the rug out from under the Giants. We did well not to get into a bidding war for a high risk acquisition.

One thing this shows is that we are going in all guns blazing for a flag within 2 years.

“But first we had to have Port delist him so wouldn't have planned anything unless we were told that was happening.”

Thanks for the info, I was looking for this.

So we have an expectation that Port will delist & an agreement from Orazio to join CFC.

Port better play ball then!
Actually, can they offer him a 1 year senior contract? Would that prevent his DFA expected status?

 

[Blue__Balls]

“But first we had to have Port delist him so wouldn't have planned anything unless we were told that was happening.”

Thanks for the info, I was looking for this.

So we have an expectation that Port will delist & an agreement from Orazio to join CFC.

Port better play ball then!
Actually, can they offer him a 1 year senior contract? Would that prevent his DFA expected status?

Not much point, trade window is closed, so all they're doing then is forcing him into the draft for no reason.

 

[Bletch]

Port supposedly had a one-year contract on the table, and he rejected that in favour of a two-year deal at Carlton (with GWS also making an offer).

He hasn't yet been delisted from Port, but expect that to happen soon. It's likely Port will play ball on this, it would be unlikely that they would force him to go to the draft.

Nominations for uncontracted players to go to the draft close tomorrow. So I'd expect him to be delisted by then. If he isn't, he has a difficult choice to make.

Earliest we can sign him is Wednesday (opening day for signing DFA's).

 

[Blue Pulse]

Have listened to the reasons on here as to why we have picked up Orazio but still don't understand them? 28 and similar stats to DC who is 2 years younger and averages roughly 2 games less a season. Hopefully Russell can get these guys right as we really need consistency in our forward half to take the pressure off Charlie and Harry, Martin showed the importance of a 3rd pressure target, finding our best mix of forwards next year hopefully wont take too long.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Port supposedly had a one-year contract on the table, and he rejected that in favour of a two-year deal at Carlton (with GWS also making an offer).

He hasn't yet been delisted from Port, but expect that to happen soon. It's likely Port will play ball on this, it would be unlikely that they would force him to go to the draft.

Nominations for uncontracted players to go to the draft close tomorrow. So I'd expect him to be delisted by then. If he isn't, he has a difficult choice to make.

Earliest we can sign him is Wednesday (opening day for signing DFA's).

I thought Port offered him a one year - rookie contract

 

[swuzzlebubble]

similar stats to DC

DC: 53 games, 29 goals
OF: 99 games, 141 goals

 

[Aphrodite]

I thought Port offered him a one year - rookie contract

1 year contract apparently but GWS offered him a 1yr rookie contract after he underwent a medical.

 

[Soapy V]

Does Binns play any position other than wing? Tough competition with Acres, Hollands, Cottrell and possibly Doc in the mix.

I can see Hollands moving into the midfield

 

[ferrisb]

Is E Holland

1) An inside mid who can drift forward
2) A forward who can spend some time in the midfield
3) A HFF who can play both
4) Other
5) Not really sure yet, as long as it isn't on the wing

???

Asking for a friend...

 

[branedotorg]

Have listened to the reasons on here as to why we have picked up Orazio but still don't understand them? 28 and similar stats to DC who is 2 years younger and averages roughly 2 games less a season. Hopefully Russell can get these guys right as we really need consistency in our forward half to take the pressure off Charlie and Harry, Martin showed the importance of a 3rd pressure target, finding our best mix of forwards next year hopefully wont take too long.

I'm not convinced given he's never able to play but his best is significantly better than DC, albeit in a different position. 5 goals 3x times, 4 goals i think around 10 times.

 

[branedotorg]

Is E Holland

1) An inside mid who can drift forward
2) A forward who can spend some time in the midfield
3) A HFF who can play both
4) Other
5) Not really sure yet, as long as it isn't on the wing

???

Asking for a friend...

3 right now imo and i think that's why he was recruited.

if it all works out transitioning into more midfield time over his career.

 

[Arr0w]

Is E Holland

1) An inside mid who can drift forward
2) A forward who can spend some time in the midfield
3) A HFF who can play both
4) Other
5) Not really sure yet, as long as it isn't on the wing

???

Asking for a friend...

Can rest forward and actually be a threat, strong mark, big kick

Not an inside mid like Cripps or Kennedy but wins his own contested ball

Think he starts HF, rotating through the middle

 

[Benaly28]

Saad was worth 8 easily.

And still would be.


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[Brezsa]

Have listened to the reasons on here as to why we have picked up Orazio but still don't understand them? 28 and similar stats to DC who is 2 years younger and averages roughly 2 games less a season. Hopefully Russell can get these guys right as we really need consistency in our forward half to take the pressure off Charlie and Harry, Martin showed the importance of a 3rd pressure target, finding our best mix of forwards next year hopefully wont take too long.

Orazio has shown significantly more than DC.

Orazio has kicked 20 or 20+ goals in 4 seasons

DC is yet to get anywhere near that output. The 2 questions are will DC ever & will Orazio ever do it again? Which is why the insurance of both probably isn’t a bad thing

The club is clearly about the now, the trade off is Orazio and the possibility over the next 2 years vs a late draft pick. It’s a list spot. I think for Carlton to win a flag in the next 2 years (which should be the aim just in a prelim) it’s clear which is a better option