i think (changing to 1 year) is astute by the Club. Ball entirely in his court in terms of risk and opportunity - next year/tenure now fully performance based in terms of output, and attitude. no doubt if he delivers on these, as i expect he will, hell be well looked after
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃
- Thread starter Aphrodite
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
i think (changing to 1 year) is astute by the Club. Ball entirely in his court in terms of risk and opportunity - next year/tenure now fully performance based in terms of output, and attitude. no doubt if he delivers on these, as i expect he will, hell be well looked after
Didn’t get a reduced contract length, just didn’t get an extended contract.
Smart move I reckon. We’re saying to him show us how much you want it, and what you’re worth. He’s achieved very little as an AFL footballer. He gets a year to audition.
Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
So far for best 22:
FB: Docherty Weitering McGovern
HB: Williams Marchbank Saad
C: Acres Cerra Walsh
HF: Fogarty Curnow Martin
FF: Silvagni McKay Fantasia
R: TDK Cripps Kemp
Int: Hewett (mid), Cuningham (mid/fwd), O.Hollands (mid), E.Hollands (mid/fwd)/Wilson (mid/def)
Best of the rest 22:
FB: Newman S.Durdin Cowan
HB: Cincotta Young Boyd
C: Cottrell Motlop Binns
HF: C.Durdin O'Keeffe Moir
FF: Akuei Lemmey Owies
R: Pittonet Kennedy Carroll
Int: Mirkov, Monahan
FB: Docherty Weitering McGovern
HB: Williams Marchbank Saad
C: Acres Cerra Walsh
HF: Fogarty Curnow Martin
FF: Silvagni McKay Fantasia
R: TDK Cripps Kemp
Int: Hewett (mid), Cuningham (mid/fwd), O.Hollands (mid), E.Hollands (mid/fwd)/Wilson (mid/def)
Best of the rest 22:
FB: Newman S.Durdin Cowan
HB: Cincotta Young Boyd
C: Cottrell Motlop Binns
HF: C.Durdin O'Keeffe Moir
FF: Akuei Lemmey Owies
R: Pittonet Kennedy Carroll
Int: Mirkov, Monahan
You are the master of semantics and changing arguments. The point here is I don't think our KPDs, other than weitering are any good.
My point last year, which is totally different, was that we are 10 good players away from a premiership/or top 4. I can't remember precisely. I said we were a 7th or 8th list after preseason. I was probably wrong but we have not had sustained success and may end up with 10 good additions if we win a premiership.
You need to consider, how you come across as smug and imperious and to the extent your arguementative style is focussed on red herrings, semantics and shifts in frames of reference
- Oct 4, 2018
- 9,800
- 25,132
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Arsenal & NY Knicks
I'd almost argue Lewis Young is one of the better depth key defenders in the comp
Actually, I don't change my thoughts on a situation based on a whim or a short phase
I respect your thoughts, however I see it differently and so does every club in the league as they too have either cheap senior backup and unknown developing youth
And clearly that's been rebuked by us finishing 3rd this year
It's possible, or we could win a flag next year
I wasn't arguing, I just don't need to change my view to suit someone's opinion.
You believe our backup KPP are poor, I don't and most if not all clubs have similar quality backups
JuddgementDay
Brownlow Medallist
I’ve just scanned our list - I’m very happy with it, do we even have list cloggers anymore?
Every player got something to offer to the list
Bring in 2024 & the 17th cup
Every player got something to offer to the list
Bring in 2024 & the 17th cup
Last edited:
- Moderator
- #2,908
Michael Jezz Arr0w please just put each other on ignore, there's enough personal history here that this won't end well
Fevolution!
Senior List
You need to move on from Kemp in the midfield, won’t happen. We have too many better options.
If he’s playing, it’s in the backline.
I think it depends on how you view our defensive structure.
If you are in the camp that believes we need 2 genuine key defenders and only played an undersized Kemp/ Marchbank at CHB because Young / Durdin are no good I can understand thinking we might need another guy.
If however, you believe we now actually prefer a mobile structure with one big and several hybrid types (similar to Collingwood) then our key defensive depth looks pretty good.
I am in the latter camp. Weitering is our big guy with Young plus Durdin as back-up. Then we have McGovern, Marchbank, Kemp competing for the 2 spots as hybrids. If 2 of those happen to be injured we go bigger with another of Durdin or Young. Plenty of options
Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
What specific midfield craft is Kennedy better at than Kemp?
There are factors in Kennedy's favour, but I'm interested to see what you think they are.
- Mar 20, 2017
- 10,851
- 36,585
- AFL Club
- Carlton
I guess Nic Newman has to actually win the B & F to make it into our best 23. Clearly coming runner up this year wasn't good enough.
I guess Nic Newman has to actually win the B & F to make it into our best 23. Clearly coming runner up this year wasn't good enough.
In fairness, Newman has always struggled to make preseason 22s. Last year half this board had him out for Stocker, about 2 days before Stocker was delisted
.
- Oct 4, 2018
- 9,800
- 25,132
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Arsenal & NY Knicks
I agree with you - I also would prefer us play the one genuine key back in Weitering and have the two hybrid talls. Makes Young and Durdin valuable depth
Fevolution!
Senior List
All of the crafts, given Kemp has never played there.
Not necessarily suggesting it’s Kennedy in and Kemp out. The core midfield group is Cripps, Walsh, Cerra and one of Hewitt and Kennedy (whoever is in form) with Cunningham, Fogarty and Docherty chipping in. Hollands and Acres play the wings
JuddgementDay
Brownlow Medallist
You’ve seen how excited Voss, Austin & Co were about BWilson midfield potential - how many games has he played there vs Kemp?
It’s all about what attributes they have and whether these can be translated to the midfield craft. Kemp got plenty of tools
BolshyAust
Senior List
- Sep 21, 2020
- 150
- 264
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Wilson ahead of Newman and Boyd? Not for me until he is actually seen.
Kemp in the midfield? Not for me. His decision making has questions for me.
Fevolution!
Senior List
It just doesn’t seem necessary. We have a strong midfield that bats deep and is proven, and Kemp showed massive signs as a defender. If it ain’t broken…
It’s business time in FY24, we are well past trying to shoehorn 1st round draft picks into sexy positions.
If we want Kemp to play mid he is going to have to go back to the VFL for half a season at least and surpass several others. As a 2nd/3rd tall defender he is best 22 or at absolute worst 1 spot out of the side.
On top of that aside from a couple of games as a junior he has never played mid. He doesn't offer a point of difference from our current big bodied onballers. Not a great kick, not an accumulator, not a clearance winner. Moves well for a tall but not for a mid. Quick but not super quick.
Not saying he could never make it as a mid or that we should never try it but to push him there next season would be ridiculous.
I keep hearing the comparison to Cripps but their similarities end at their heights. Cripps was always a mid and has been getting 10 clearances a week since he was 17.
- Mar 25, 2019
- 12,603
- 26,233
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Chances of a fresh draftee displacing Newman who was playing close to All Australian level football in the 2nd half of last season?
Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
He's had minutes in the VFL, unclear how much video or training work has been done (knowing us I'd imagine almost none). Was moved into the midfield as junior and started to dominate games.
Walsh as a centre bounce mid is still a weird dice roll to make, and we probably need 3 athletically capable mids who can play the wing to make the 22 work.
Kemp got dropped repeatedly and only forced his way in on the back of Young shitting the bed and Kemp taking the onus in the VFL to attack the ball in the air and run it out.
Either through instruction or lack of coaching insight, he had not been taking the game on until that point. It's possible that was part of a number of changes being trialled in the VFL, but the exact timing on his tactical change compared to the others eludes me at the moment.
Even then, still got dumped a week after making a fumble that almost cost us a semi-final berth. I think he did a good job in what was something of a makeshift 22 at times last year, but with Docherty redlining it last year in the midfield and now 30, I'm not sure he'll be in our 2023 midfield, or at least I don't think he'll have the most impact there.
Kemp on the other hand has all the raw tools to be a star midfield 1-2 punch with Cripps but everyone here seems to think he's not up to it mentally. I disagree.
I'm not comparing him to Cripps, and if he's a half-decent study he won't need half a VFL season... he can be embedded in the pre-season unless he has zero self-confidence and/or wherewithal.
And I'm happy to call bullshit on him lacking the pace and foot skills for the role. Ball winning is about where you're being played, and when afforded intercept duties he won plenty of ball. His first few steps are very good, and his top end pace is genuinely elite:
First game in he flashed wheels and the ability to release others by hand in traffic...
Look through his highlights from this year and tell me you don't see how the way he moves the ball by hand and foot stands out. Alongside that he's got enough fitness and defensive application to make it all work:
You don't have blokes who make quick decisions and moves in traffic like he does sitting in the back pocket if they can run out games. It's just ludicrous.
That's not really who he'd be replacing. I'd have him relieving on the wing and dipping back if the back six needed more help. I'd rely on the wings to effectively take turns being the 7th defender in the rotation, and his pace and skills would be a point of difference.
It's probably a long shot though, so it'd just be split between Ollie, Walsh, and Acres.
And as I regularly say these days, Newman is still in that next tier of selections, and we're unlikely to have a fully fit best 22 at any given point in the year, especially in defence. Conversely, he's the oldest player on the list, will be 31 at the start of the season and he pushed his body a lot in the back half of this year.
But I'm also banking on a fast start in a new environment from one of Elijah and Billy, and Cuningham doing enough to warrant selection as a regular mid, to name but a few. It won't all pan out, and he'd probably be the next name on the board.
Kemp could be a Cripps replacement on ball in a few years but he needs to audition in the VFL first. Depends if he wants it. I think he’s happy as a third tall defender.
I think Youngs salary has to be considered when describing him as valuable depth.
If he's earning around $400,000+, can we afford him to play 75% VFL, similar to Dow/Fisher?
Last edited:
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
Kemp's played 23 senior games....
He'll only get better and better in all aspects of his game.
Personally, I'd like to see him used a swingman.
He's terrific overhead and quick by foot.
At 'only' 193cm, still taller than Lance, Fev, Riewoldt etc.
- Oct 4, 2019
- 1,635
- 5,186
- AFL Club
- Carlton
I would argue he was for a period in 2022 when he really stepped up in the absence of Weitering.
He struggled this year, was really poor against Pies (rd. 10) and dropped. Came back for 2 losses and was dropped again. Then we went on our winning run. The only time he played after that was as a ruckman (2 games) and 1 game as sub.
He was never played as a true defender from the point we turned our season around. Wasn't even picked in the 26 man squads for the finals, with Durdin the preferred option. He slowed us down considerably with his ponderous sideways chip kicks. The Bulldogs lost faith in him when he was theoretically a needed type at the time, and it appears Voss has done the same.
We are 1 injury to the wrong player away from real problems if Durdin is not fit and available imo. We have theoretical tall depth and I can see the argument for not wanting "depth for your depth", but I think it is understandable that some of us have real concerns in this area.
- Status
