List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

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Jimmae said:
Walsh as a centre bounce mid is still a weird dice roll to make, and we probably need 3 athletically capable mids who can play the wing to make the 22 work.
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Just because Walsh is a gun runner, doesn’t mean he’s a wingman.

The wing can be a self sacrificing role at times. We don’t want Walsh sacrificing his game..he’s a Roles Royce.
 
JuddgementDay said:
You’ve seen how excited Voss, Austin & Co were about BWilson midfield potential - how many games has he played there vs Kemp?

It’s all about what attributes they have and whether these can be translated to the midfield craft. Kemp got plenty of tools
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Great point.

Kemp probably has more value to the list as a mobile tall defender, but he absolutely has tools that transfer to midfield roles. Size, strength, perpetual motion and quick vision and hands in congestion. Good disposal and innate instincts to follow up his work.

McGovern has a spot for now, but it is easy to see Kemp assuming the interceptor/rebounder role beside Weiters and Marchbank (or either Young or Sam Durdin if called on). I think most believe he would thrive in a less accountable role, rather than being forced to play as an undersized key. His ability and speed to “sag off” and support his team mates get him in trouble almost as often as it “comes off” thus drawing criticism by some on here.

We are spoiled for choice if all tall defenders are fit, if Gov and Marchy are preferred, I absolutely would advocate Kempy being schooled in the middle. The acquisition of Hollands and Moir, along with a preference for the two ruck model giving TDK significant forward minutes make a forward deployment highly unlikely.

I am made optimistic by the Coaches Corner clip during the year suggesting Kemp was “untapped”. Really hoping the club chooses to develop him extensively. Thinking he is more an “old fashioned” instinctive player who overthinks a little when faced with too many structural constraints.
 

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Fevolution! said:
It just doesn’t seem necessary. We have a strong midfield that bats deep and is proven, and Kemp showed massive signs as a defender. If it ain’t broken…

It’s business time in FY24, we are well past trying to shoehorn 1st round draft picks into sexy positions.
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Previously, Kemp was trained fwd, then in 2023 a defender and now he should now be trained as a midfielder this preseason - he’ll be a great utility.

He’s still learning and evolving as a player.
The most important thing to me is that he’s best 22, and I wouldn’t want him to miss games due to a pecking order in defense

It will be a win win, if he can start to have some mid rotation minutes
 
Earls Smother said:
I would argue he was for a period in 2022 when he really stepped up in the absence of Weitering.

He struggled this year, was really poor against Pies (rd. 10) and dropped. Came back for 2 losses and was dropped again. Then we went on our winning run. The only time he played after that was as a ruckman (2 games) and 1 game as sub.

He was never played as a true defender from the point we turned our season around. Wasn't even picked in the 26 man squads for the finals, with Durdin the preferred option. He slowed us down considerably with his ponderous sideways chip kicks. The Bulldogs lost faith in him when he was theoretically a needed type at the time, and it appears Voss has done the same.

We are 1 injury to the wrong player away from real problems if Durdin is not fit and available imo. We have theoretical tall depth and I can see the argument for not wanting "depth for your depth", but I think it is understandable that some of us have real concerns in this area.
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How good would the Dees be without Lever or May?

Or the Pies without Moore...
 
Coona Blues said:
Great point.

Kemp probably has more value to the list as a mobile tall defender, but he absolutely has tools that transfer to midfield roles. Size, strength, perpetual motion and quick vision and hands in congestion. Good disposal and innate instincts to follow up his work.

McGovern has a spot for now, but it is easy to see Kemp assuming the interceptor/rebounder role beside Weiters and Marchbank (or either Young or Sam Durdin if called on). I think most believe he would thrive in a less accountable role, rather than being forced to play as an undersized key. His ability and speed to “sag off” and support his team mates get him in trouble almost as often as it “comes off” thus drawing criticism by some on here.

We are spoiled for choice if all tall defenders are fit, if Gov and Marchy are preferred, I absolutely would advocate Kempy being schooled in the middle. The acquisition of Hollands and Moir, along with a preference for the two ruck model giving TDK significant forward minutes make a forward deployment highly unlikely.

I am made optimistic by the Coaches Corner clip during the year suggesting Kemp was “untapped”. Really hoping the club chooses to develop him extensively. Thinking he is more an “old fashioned” instinctive player who overthinks a little when faced with too many structural constraints.
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Damn - well written! Agreed

It would have saved my slow phone typing skills, if you’ve posted a few mins earlier :D
 
The Blue Weirdo said:
I think Youngs salary has to be considered when describing him as valuable depth.
If he's earning around $400,000+, can we afford him to play 75% VFL, similar to Dow/Fisher?
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Short-term, sure. He's shown he can play at the level, we just need to determine if his good patch was a flash in the pan, or if his recent performance is a temporary form slump.

You don't want to be playing an $800k a year midfielder in the ressies at all, if you can help it. But a 24yo KPP on the average AFL salary...it just comes down to form. If he's performing, you pick him. If he's not, you don't, and you try and help him rediscover his form in the reserves.

End of 2024 is a different story. A second consecutive poor/indifferent year while we're chasing a flag and it might be wise to ship him off and go back to the well via trade or free agency. Question is what we're replacing him with, and what does that cost? It's like a reverse free agency situation - do we retain a player on a slightly inflated salary, or do we flip him for peanuts and then give up draft capital for a replacement. Could either target a budget/depth/fringe KPD from another club (Alex Keath, Josh Battle, Ben Miller, Daniel Turner) or have a look at moving Lemmey down back and bringing in a KPF/ruck type (Samson Ryan from Richmond could be one to watch there) - but you're then making a judgement on whether you shell out for a best 22 type, or do a bit of deck-chair shuffling to get someone comparable to Lewis Young just on less money (at the potential cost of a late draft pick).
 
4flagsin5yrs said:
How good would the Dees be without Lever or May?

Or the Pies without Moore...
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True. Brisbane without Andrews would have seen us kick 15 goals in that first quarter of the PF.

It's one of those discussions that everyone hopes is totally moot. Or something, something, Geoff Southby, 1981, 1982 something, something...
 
Fevolution! said:
Just because Walsh is a gun runner, doesn’t mean he’s a wingman.

The wing can be a self sacrificing role at times. We don’t want Walsh sacrificing his game..he’s a Roles Royce.
Click to expand...
100%

Wing is a specialised position, even more so today than perhaps ever before in most structural models around the competition. Players who read the game and run both ways, maintaining width, yet choosing when to come in. Acres is not a classic wing physically, but ticks all of the boxes and adds the dimension of being a decent “third tall”. Dutchy has the capability of going inside after more body development, but has the instincts and discipline to be a great winger. Cotts has most of the attributes to play wing, but doesn’t read the game as well as the other two. Doc plays wing more as an extra mid than a classic winger. Doc remains best 22, but is going to rotate through a variety of roles over the next couple of years.

Walshy is a “follower”, see ball, get ball. He could play wing, but likely we would be exploited defensively if he was deployed there exclusively.

On watching the Campo boys, both could play wing, but Lucas is better equipped. Lucas maintains width and is more “outside” than his brother. He is a distributor and a mop up type. Wing or distributing half back is his go. Brother Ben is more like Walshy. While showing discipline, he is a natural inside/outside type who could lean either way at the next level. List balance suggests to me he should be developed as a balanced mid option. Absolutely projects as a good half back option while developing too. We are going to have a list with more than enough quality outside options, with Dutchy, Binns and the Campos giving us some great options.
 
Is anybody else concerned a few blokes at our club are going to be paid for doing not much over the next 12 months?

Our list management and recruiting team are going to be twiddling thumbs quite a bit. The Camporeale boys are odds on to be our only live picks next year. Trade and delistings will be minimal and we will have one or two rookie elevations happening. Pick 18 is unlikely to be ahead of bids.

We should be very well researched for the 2025 draft!
 
Coona Blues said:
100%

Wing is a specialised position, even more so today than perhaps ever before in most structural models around the competition. Players who read the game and run both ways, maintaining width, yet choosing when to come in. Acres is not a classic wing physically, but ticks all of the boxes and adds the dimension of being a decent “third tall”. Dutchy has the capability of going inside after more body development, but has the instincts and discipline to be a great winger. Cotts has most of the attributes to play wing, but doesn’t read the game as well as the other two. Doc plays wing more as an extra mid than a classic winger. Doc remains best 22, but is going to rotate through a variety of roles over the next couple of years.

Walshy is a “follower”, see ball, get ball. He could play wing, but likely we would be exploited defensively if he was deployed there exclusively.

On watching the Campo boys, both could play wing, but Lucas is better equipped. Lucas maintains width and is more “outside” than his brother. He is a distributor and a mop up type. Wing or distributing half back is his go. Brother Ben is more like Walshy. While showing discipline, he is a natural inside/outside type who could lean either way at the next level. List balance suggests to me he should be developed as a balanced mid option. Absolutely projects as a good half back option while developing too. We are going to have a list with more than enough quality outside options, with Dutchy, Binns and the Campos giving us some great options.
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How tall are the Campo lads?
 
Coona Blues said:
Is anybody else concerned a few blokes at our club are going to be paid for doing not much over the next 12 months?

Our list management and recruiting team are going to be twiddling thumbs quite a bit. The Camporeale boys are odds on to be our only live picks next year. Trade and delistings will be minimal and we will have one or two rookie elevations happening. Pick 18 is unlikely to be ahead of bids.

We should be very well researched for the 2025 draft!
Click to expand...

Difficult to nail down right now, but I suspect we will still have half a dozen list changes as a minimum
 

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Coona Blues said:
Is anybody else concerned a few blokes at our club are going to be paid for doing not much over the next 12 months?

Our list management and recruiting team are going to be twiddling thumbs quite a bit. The Camporeale boys are odds on to be our only live picks next year. Trade and delistings will be minimal and we will have one or two rookie elevations happening. Pick 18 is unlikely to be ahead of bids.

We should be very well researched for the 2025 draft!
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's a bit weird knowing that the 2024 draft has already been written for us.

The boys might jump on a plane to head back to Ireland for another junket, but we've already got Duffy heading over when he's able (which I'm already excited about).

The only other things we could be working towards may be luring a free agent....though looking at the list, there's not a lot who appeal except maybe Hayward, Zurhaar, Perryman and Cumberland. Apart from Cumberland, I can't see any of those really wanting to leave their current clubs - and I'm not sure we'd appeal to many FA's anyway if they're not assured of a regular game. A 'cheaper' depth player may be more realistic.

We could also be looking at ways to move up the draft board to get ahead of the Campo bids - but that'd depend on what type of year they have leading to the draft as to where they may receive a bid, and what changes the AFL could make to the bidding/points system.
 
Jimmae said:
So far for best 22:

FB: Docherty Weitering McGovern
HB: Williams Marchbank Saad
C: Acres Cerra Walsh
HF: Fogarty Curnow Martin
FF: Silvagni McKay Fantasia

R: TDK Cripps Kemp

Int: Hewett (mid), Cuningham (mid/fwd), O.Hollands (mid), E.Hollands (mid/fwd)/Wilson (mid/def)

Best of the rest 22:

FB: Newman S.Durdin Cowan
HB: Cincotta Young Boyd
C: Cottrell Motlop Binns
HF: C.Durdin O'Keeffe Moir
FF: Akuei Lemmey Owies

R: Pittonet Kennedy Carroll

Int: Mirkov, Monahan
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On no planet is Williams getting a game ahead of Newman.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
 
Arr0w said:
Difficult to nail down right now, but I suspect we will still have half a dozen list changes as a minimum
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Of the out of contract names:
Ripe for delisting - Akuei, Mirkov
Need a strong year - J. Carroll, Cuningham, C. Durdin, S. Durdin, Fogarty, Marchbank

Then there's the possibility that we trade one or more contracted players who may be squeezed from the 22 and hold some value. Not advocating for it as such, but any of Young, Hewett or Kennedy could be shopped depending on how we structure the 22 and how we rate the developing next wave.

Mirkov opens up a rookie spot, Akuei would allow us to look at another Cat B if desired.
I could see Jack Carroll being traded for extra Campo points.
One of Corey Durdin and Lachie Fogarty may be best seeking opportunity elsewhere given our latest recruitments.
One of Cunners and Marchbank is likely to fall apart, but hopefully not the case.
I suspect Young stays with a lack of strong KPD candidates on the free agency market, but I could see us nudging Hewett out the door if we really need a list spot - or perhaps just shifting him to the rookie list to facilitate some necessary elevations?

3x senior (Carroll, Fogarty, Cunners) = 2x Campos + 1x rookie upgrade (Boyd)
2x rookie (Mirkov, Boyd)) = 2x rookie picks
1x Cat B rookie (Akuei) = do we have any NGA options coming through?
Then if we need an extra senior spot for a trade or free agency target, move Hewett (or similar) to the rookie list in place of one of those selections.
 
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Blue__Balls said:
Of the out of contract names:
Ripe for delisting - Akuei, Mirkov
Need a strong year - J. Carroll, Cuningham, C. Durdin, S. Durdin, Fogarty, Marchbank

Then there's the possibility that we trade one or more contracted players who may be squeezed from the 22 and hold some value. Not advocating for it as such, but any of Young, Hewett or Kennedy could be shopped depending on how we structure the 22 and how we rate the developing next wave.

Mirkov opens up a rookie spot, Akuei would allow us to look at another Cat B if desired.
I could see Jack Carroll being traded for extra Campo points.
One of Corey Durdin and Lachie Fogarty may be best seeking opportunity elsewhere given our latest recruitments.
One of Cunners and Marchbank is likely to fall apart, but hopefully not the case.
I suspect Young stays with a lack of strong KPD candidates on the free agency market, but I could see us nudging Hewett out the door if we really need a list spot - or perhaps just shifting him to the rookie list to facilitate some necessary elevantions?

4x senior (Carroll, Fogarty, Cunners, Hewett) = 2x Campos + 2x rookie upgrade (Cottrell + Boyd?)
3x rookie (Mirkov, Cottrell, Boyd)) = re-list Hewett, take two rookie picks
1x Cat B rookie (Akuei) = do we have any NGA options coming through?
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It's a fair assessment....for the first time for a long time, we'll likely see more players seeking trades elsewhere for more opportunities. It started this year with Fish and Dow, and as our list grows deeper, you'd suspect others will follow.

Just a few points though in response. For mine, I wouldn't trade George for the world - he's played some great footy for us since we got him over, and just built for finals. I reckon Vossy would love him, and not taking up much salary. Kennedy I can see becoming depth and could get shopped around.

I'm also a huge fan of Corey Durdin. Injuries over the past year have held him back, but I still think he's our best small forward. Owies could be the one looking over his shoulder - for mine, his limitations were found out during the finals series to the point where the match committee lost patience with him. Fog was a far better option. Either way, I'd still have Durdin well ahead of both.

I suspect Young may get shopped around, although he's actually decent depth in more than one position. If both of our rucks go down like what happened in the Freo game, he can take on that role. Seemed to lose all confidence down back this year, so not sure where he's placed there. I just don't think we can have both him and Nigel as depth KPD's running around in the magoo's. At some stage we need to bring in a young KPD to develop.

Big Dom is on borrowed time this year - freakish athleticism - but apart from that, nowhere near AFL standard. Unless there's a major turnaround, I can't see him getting promoted to the senior list - so the vacant Cat B rookie spot should be taken by Duffy.
 
my perfect old best 22 with good health and form

Saad Weitering Newman
Williams Marchbank McLovin
Acres Cripps Docherty
Martin Harry Fantasia
Motlop Charlie SoS
TDK Cerra Walsh

Then it's tricky

E.Hollands/Cuningham fwd mid
Kennedy/Hewett mid
Cottrell/O.Hollands runners
Boyd/Kemp def
Owies/Fogarty fwds

Good problems to have. Go baggers
 
Think we have 16 players OOC end of 2024. My thoughts are based on a number factors, such as latest acquisitions, upside, durability, opportunities

Grouping are just that, rather than hard and fast decision

Lachie Fogarty - Opportunities
Jack Carroll Possible trade
Corey Durdin - Possible trade
Jack Martin - Keep
Caleb Marchbank - Durability
David Cuningham - Durability
Jordan Boyd - Keep
Sam Durdin - Keep
Matthew Owies - Opportunities
Alex Mirkov - Delist
Matthew Cottrell - Keep
Alex Cincotta - Keep
Hudson O'Keeffe - Keep
Domanic Akuei - Delist
Elijah Hollands - Watch
Matt Carroll - Keep
 
Bamboo Harvester said:
It's a fair assessment....for the first time for a long time, we'll likely see more players seeking trades elsewhere for more opportunities. It started this year with Fish and Dow, and as our list grows deeper, you'd suspect others will follow.

Just a few points though in response. For mine, I wouldn't trade George for the world - he's played some great footy for us since we got him over, and just built for finals. I reckon Vossy would love him, and not taking up much salary. Kennedy I can see becoming depth and could get shopped around.

I'm also a huge fan of Corey Durdin. Injuries over the past year have held him back, but I still think he's our best small forward. Owies could be the one looking over his shoulder - for mine, his limitations were found out during the finals series to the point where the match committee lost patience with him. Fog was a far better option. Either way, I'd still have Durdin well ahead of both.

I suspect Young may get shopped around, although he's actually decent depth in more than one position. If both of our rucks go down like what happened in the Freo game, he can take on that role. Seemed to lose all confidence down back this year, so not sure where he's placed there. I just don't think we can have both him and Nigel as depth KPD's running around in the magoo's. At some stage we need to bring in a young KPD to develop.

Big Dom is on borrowed time this year - freakish athleticism - but apart from that, nowhere near AFL standard. Unless there's a major turnaround, I can't see him getting promoted to the senior list - so the vacant Cat B rookie spot should be taken by Duffy.
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Reasonable points.

I wouldn't want to trade Hewett either, but if I'm keeping one of him or Kennedy I'd lean towards Kennedy on the grounds that he's a bit more flexible with position, is a bit younger, and is generally more damaging with his disposal. Statistically there's not a heap in it, it's more a "style" thing. Preference would be to retain both though so we don't find ourselves without any midfield depth, so moving Hewett to the rookie list would be fine by me.

I too rate Durdin, which is why I have him on the list above. I find it hard to identify a spot he can stake a 100% claim to when he's competing against a range of other players like Motlop, Cunners, Fogarty, Owies, Hollands, Fantasia and Moir. There's a bit of a logjam there, and he's one I think could look elsewhere despite a contract offer from us. Fogarty similar, will need to capitalise on his recent return to the seniors ASAP otherwise his career could end at the drop of a hat. For both those guys, securing a 2 or even 3 year deal elsewhere could be preferable to rolling one-year deals with us.

Owies would be starting the 2025 season as a 28yo, so I don't know that he'd have as many suitors as the younger guys, and I suspect he'd be more willing to go year-by-year with a flag contender for the remainder of his career.

Would also be happy to move on one of Young/Big Durdin in favour of a developing option, but I don't see how we swing that in 2024. Perhaps if a bid for Campo 1 comes early, and we match, while a bid for Campo 2 is more likely to come later in the second round, we could offload our 2025 first rounder for a late 2024 first if there's a solid enough KPP on the board?

Akuei for Duffy would also be a nice easy call to make.
 
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Arr0w said:
Think we have 16 players OOC end of 2024. My thoughts are based on a number factors, such as latest acquisitions, upside, durability, opportunities

Grouping are just that, rather than hard and fast decision

Lachie Fogarty - Opportunities
Jack Carroll Possible trade
Corey Durdin - Possible trade
Jack Martin - Keep
Caleb Marchbank - Durability
David Cuningham - Durability
Jordan Boyd - Keep
Sam Durdin - Keep
Matthew Owies - Opportunities
Alex Mirkov - Delist
Matthew Cottrell - Keep
Alex Cincotta - Keep
Hudson O'Keeffe - Keep
Domanic Akuei - Delist
Elijah Hollands - Watch
Matt Carroll - Keep
Click to expand...
Corey Durdin is a keeper for me but it might come down to opportunity the rest I agree with.
 
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