List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Coona Blues]

VFL development role?

Of the mature options available to us (and the potential price) I rate Haynes as the best available. He is not a genuine KPD, but can play tall.

For posters thinking this is an old bloke at the end and past it, you are wrong. Haynes is currently behind the spectacular list of key/tall options at the disposal of the Giants. Taylor arguably the best KPD in the game, Buckley a very under rated stopper who has developed his offensive game in recent times (ask our Charlie his opinion of Buckley or indeed the 3rd tall Connor Idun) Harry Himmelberg is almost an optional extra in that spectacular defensive unit. GWS are gettable with quality small forwards, we struggle because they are the best around at blunting our star talls. Then they have young KPD Leek Aleer who is only a small downgrade on Taylor and Buckley.

Haynes would be a walk up start at probably any other club in the competition, despite his age. The riches they (GWS) have are to be envied. Haynes has earned a million a year, last year and this off the back of back ended contracts. He is All Australian and B&F. He has been overlooked in favour of an elite young defensive unit. They are paying and playing the now and the future. Haynes reportedly is happy to play for “ordinary” money. Think any offers at GWS would be basic and he is eying a return to Victoria, cutting out interstate suitors.

I would prefer a genuine KPD in the wings and don’t particularly want another third tall type pushing Kemp out of the team, but Haynes has not gone in to massive decline and has some positives on the side of mentorship. We have been bereft of leaders in defence. Bear in mind that our general developed during a dark period of our history and has not had much mentorship of his own.

No brainer for mine. Love the idea of a mentor for Kempy, or someone to release him to be tried in other roles.

Not a fan of the spitballing for the old or flawed players from oppo teams, I want the draft for our next generation of players, but Haynes gives us decent options. Plenty around the league are proving age is just a number. He will be hungry (ravenous) to go out on a high.

 

[Accidental genius]

Like who?

I’m not picky but at least a B grader.

I don’t really know which of the current players in the league might be available.

Are you suggesting there aren’t too many real good ones available?

 

[skadoosh]

Of the mature options available to us (and the potential price) I rate Haynes as the best available. He is not a genuine KPD, but can play tall.

For posters thinking this is an old bloke at the end and past it, you are wrong. Haynes is currently behind the spectacular list of key/tall options at the disposal of the Giants. Taylor arguably the best KPD in the game, Buckley a very under rated stopper who has developed his offensive game in recent times (ask our Charlie his opinion of Buckley or indeed the 3rd tall Connor Idun) Harry Himmelberg is almost an optional extra in that spectacular defensive unit. GWS are gettable with quality small forwards, we struggle because they are the best around at blunting our star talls. Then they have young KPD Leek Aleer who is only a small downgrade on Taylor and Buckley.

Haynes would be a walk up start at probably any other club in the competition, despite his age. The riches they (GWS) have are to be envied. Haynes has earned a million a year, last year and this off the back of back ended contracts. He is All Australian and B&F. He has been overlooked in favour of an elite young defensive unit. They are paying and playing the now and the future. Haynes reportedly is happy to play for “ordinary” money. Think any offers at GWS would be basic and he is eying a return to Victoria, cutting out interstate suitors.

I would prefer a genuine KPD in the wings and don’t particularly want another third tall type pushing Kemp out of the team, but Haynes has not gone in to massive decline and has some positives on the side of mentorship. We have been bereft of leaders in defence. Bear in mind that our general developed during a dark period of our history and has not had much mentorship of his own.

No brainer for mine. Love the idea of a mentor for Kempy, or someone to release him to be tried in other roles.

Not a fan of the spitballing for the old or flawed players from oppo teams, I want the draft for our next generation of players, but Haynes gives us decent options. Plenty around the league are proving age is just a number. He will be hungry (ravenous) to go out on a high.

Say we don't get another KPD, does Haynes play this role or does he take over the interceptor role?

 

[Accidental genius]

Jeremy McGovern

Yeah i hear our new likely Russell replacement (burgess) is really good at repairing old broken down bodies.

I hear He’s bringing some spare parts from arsenal players so JGov might look a little lop sided but he will be able to get through games.

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

I haven’t watched enough VFL to make a judgement, however is there any merit into turning Liam McMahon into a KPD?

Seems to have the athletic traits for it with his height and leap.

 

[Accidental genius]

We are very capable of winning it this year.

Not on current form - we’d have to come out breathing fire from here on and would need some luck in terms of playing in Melbourne.

 

[Benaly28]

Get Houston.


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[Soapy V]

Of the mature options available to us (and the potential price) I rate Haynes as the best available. He is not a genuine KPD, but can play tall.

For posters thinking this is an old bloke at the end and past it, you are wrong. Haynes is currently behind the spectacular list of key/tall options at the disposal of the Giants. Taylor arguably the best KPD in the game, Buckley a very under rated stopper who has developed his offensive game in recent times (ask our Charlie his opinion of Buckley or indeed the 3rd tall Connor Idun) Harry Himmelberg is almost an optional extra in that spectacular defensive unit. GWS are gettable with quality small forwards, we struggle because they are the best around at blunting our star talls. Then they have young KPD Leek Aleer who is only a small downgrade on Taylor and Buckley.

Haynes would be a walk up start at probably any other club in the competition, despite his age. The riches they (GWS) have are to be envied. Haynes has earned a million a year, last year and this off the back of back ended contracts. He is All Australian and B&F. He has been overlooked in favour of an elite young defensive unit. They are paying and playing the now and the future. Haynes reportedly is happy to play for “ordinary” money. Think any offers at GWS would be basic and he is eying a return to Victoria, cutting out interstate suitors.

I would prefer a genuine KPD in the wings and don’t particularly want another third tall type pushing Kemp out of the team, but Haynes has not gone in to massive decline and has some positives on the side of mentorship. We have been bereft of leaders in defence. Bear in mind that our general developed during a dark period of our history and has not had much mentorship of his own.

No brainer for mine. Love the idea of a mentor for Kempy, or someone to release him to be tried in other roles.

Not a fan of the spitballing for the old or flawed players from oppo teams, I want the draft for our next generation of players, but Haynes gives us decent options. Plenty around the league are proving age is just a number. He will be hungry (ravenous) to go out on a high.

Have to disagree with you on this Coona (and that is okay)

IMO He plays a role we have covered and is way past his best. He is not a KPD. At 33 and struggling to get a game now (played 7 this year). He is nowhere near the player he was. I just don't see the value.

Our issues are a genuine KPD or two, and run. He fills neither and spots are vital

As for mentor for Kemp. I don't want Kemp anywhere near defence next year and how many does he need?

The question is for me, is he a need and does he make us better? Not for me

 

[Blue__Balls]

No one can deny Luko’s talent, but do we really need another footballer that has question marks on how soft/timid/conditional they are?

For me, we need to be recruiting the exact opposite.

I really don't think we have an issue with playing too many soft, conditional footballers at all. To clarify - it's not something we're doing currently, not "we're happy to play heaps of them."

Weiters plays a physical game, and while he can be a bit quick to head to the bench after a knock that could easily be a directive because he's one of the most critical players to our structure. Gov and Kemp go when it's their turn. Newy never takes a backward step. Saad and Boyd are light but bat above their weight class. Cowan is tough as nails.

Pitto and TDK are physical rucks. Cripps is a monster. Kennedy, Hewett and Cincotta never shirk a contest. Walsh, Cerra and Carroll are a step down from those three in the physicality stakes but neither are conditional, they're just less built for it. Acres is one of the more physical wingmen around, and Ollie Hollands is almost too happy to put his body on the line considering his frame.

Neither Harry nor Charlie are soft or timid - they can be a little prone to going to ground easily but I think that's often down to frustration at oppo treatment and trying to milk a free. Elijah Hollands thrives in the contest. Martin plays a physical game and happily absorbs contact despite his injury history. Fogarty's built his game and role on physicality. Cottrell, Owies, Williams, Motlop and Durdin are moderately physical for smalls.

Doc and JSOS will come back from injury and you know that neither is going to be giving anything less than 110%. Cunners and Marchbank rarely even get a chance to string two games together, so we only ever seem to see them in "can my body stand up to this....nope" mode.

The only players I think we have selected in the seniors this year who you could claim have played timid, soft or conditional football are Young (depth) and Fantasia (depth and coming back from injury).

There's always a risk of disharmony if you recruit/select a conditional footballer and allow them to skate by at a lower intensity than you expect from others. But I reckon if you went through every premiership side since the dawn of time you'd probably find a player or two who were less than exemplary when it came to putting their body on the line.

You don't want to overdo it, but Luko's talent level is probably high enough that you can work around the odd occasion he doesn't drop into the hole in front of a leading KPP. Especially if you play him in the front half. And who knows, maybe he'll rise to the occasion.

I reckon one of our biggest conundrums at the moment is that Charlie is just about our best when it comes to delivery inside 50. But he's also the one you want to be kicking to. Lukosius fixes that - Charlie can stay a bit deeper, and Luko can hit him on the tit a couple of times a quarter.

 

[ESKIE]

 

[Soapy V]

experience, leadership, mentor likes of Kemp etc, coached by Kingsley bit of intel

Might be a good coach?

 

[Opium]

After a little bit of research Haynes is 32 with a history of injuries. I thought we were looking at getting more durable players? This feels like another Stephen O'Reily moment if it eventuates.

Battered Giants veteran lured back by flag hopes

Despite injuries, the temptation of a possible premiership stopped Nick Haynes from leaving GWS

www.afl.com.au

 

[Coona Blues]

I’d spend the money and get a good 2nd tall KPD. Let’s not be tight and get another injury prone or a dads army type.

Team is in its prime. Make the right moves and we should be a good chance of a flag.

Those statements are easy to make, not so easy in practicality. Give me names of gettable players meeting that description.

The cupboard is bare. Plus, a quality player would cost our first pick, even if we can afford the salary.

We need to hit the draft for our KPD.
We also need to draft a quality small forward option.
We will be getting midfield options with the Campos, but still need to upgrade pace and precision, not to mention smarts and leadership.

 

[bradfisher14]

I really don't think we have an issue with playing too many soft, conditional footballers at all. To clarify - it's not something we're doing currently, not "we're happy to play heaps of them."

Weiters plays a physical game, and while he can be a bit quick to head to the bench after a knock that could easily be a directive because he's one of the most critical players to our structure. Gov and Kemp go when it's their turn. Newy never takes a backward step. Saad and Boyd are light but bat above their weight class. Cowan is tough as nails.

Pitto and TDK are physical rucks. Cripps is a monster. Kennedy, Hewett and Cincotta never shirk a contest. Walsh, Cerra and Carroll are a step down from those three in the physicality stakes but neither are conditional, they're just less built for it. Acres is one of the more physical wingmen around, and Ollie Hollands is almost too happy to put his body on the line considering his frame.

Neither Harry nor Charlie are soft or timid - they can be a little prone to going to ground easily but I think that's often down to frustration at oppo treatment and trying to milk a free. Elijah Hollands thrives in the contest. Martin plays a physical game and happily absorbs contact despite his injury history. Fogarty's built his game and role on physicality. Cottrell, Owies, Williams, Motlop and Durdin are moderately physical for smalls.

Doc and JSOS will come back from injury and you know that neither is going to be giving anything less than 110%. Cunners and Marchbank rarely even get a chance to string two games together, so we only ever seem to see them in "can my body stand up to this....nope" mode.

The only players I think we have selected in the seniors this year who you could claim have played timid, soft or conditional football are Young (depth) and Fantasia (depth and coming back from injury).

There's always a risk of disharmony if you recruit/select a conditional footballer and allow them to skate by at a lower intensity than you expect from others. But I reckon if you went through every premiership side since the dawn of time you'd probably find a player or two who were less than exemplary when it came to putting their body on the line.

You don't want to overdo it, but Luko's talent level is probably high enough that you can work around the odd occasion he doesn't drop into the hole in front of a leading KPP. Especially if you play him in the front half. And who knows, maybe he'll rise to the occasion.

I reckon one of our biggest conundrums at the moment is that Charlie is just about our best when it comes to delivery inside 50. But he's also the one you want to be kicking to. Lukosius fixes that - Charlie can stay a bit deeper, and Luko can hit him on the tit a couple of times a quarter.

My post wasn't a pot shot at our current playing list. I agree that most are not soft as you describe. They are an acceptable level of tough within the broader context of the AFL.

However, I do question if they are elite in this aspect of the game. I doubt just how tough/ruthless our boys are mentally and physically at the highest level in this league. Do they have it within them to be as ruthless as premiership teams of the past? Are they strong enough to mentally and physically dismantle opponents consistently throughout a season? Can they find it within themselves to become the bully of the competition after being bullied by everyone else for so long?

That is where I have my doubts and that is why I wouldn't bring someone like Lukosius into the mix.

 

[Blue__Balls]

My post wasn't a pot shot at our current playing list. I agree that most are not soft as you describe. They are an acceptable level of tough within the broader context of the AFL.

However, I do question if they are elite in this aspect of the game. I doubt just how tough/ruthless our boys are mentally and physically at the highest level in this league. Do they have it within them to be as ruthless as premiership teams of the past? Are they strong enough to mentally and physically dismantle opponents consistently throughout a season? Can they find it within themselves to become the bully of the competition after being bullied by everyone else for so long?

That is where I have my doubts and that is why I wouldn't bring someone like Lukosius into the mix.

I reckon that mindset is earned, and as such, the question for me is "Could Lukosius be a player who helps us become a dominant side that is capable of dismantling opponents consistently". Our game plan looks unstoppable when it's on, but I think we're seeing clear evidence that it's not sustainable over a season. Yes, we need another defensive stopper, yes, we need more pace around the ball. But both of those things are a means to an end, and that end is the ability to maintain possession of the ball for longer periods of the game by winning the ball back from the opposition. Someone like Lukosius addresses the same end in a different way - by reducing the turnover rate in our own forward half, and by giving us more scoring opportunities that then take us back to a centre bounce where we have a strong ball-winning group.

With two first rounders to play with (one this year, one next), I'd happily give up one for Luko and find a way to get the other into the 12-16 range for Berry or Travaglia. Then take Ben Campo with our second, pick up a developing KPD with a third, and take Lucas Campo very late or as a rookie. Elite kick who is positionally versatile, pacy small forward/mid or line-breaking half back, dependable midfielder, developing KPD, speculative wing/half back. That's a good spread of types to bring in and work with, and means we're not overcommitting to any one position.

Depending on list spots, absolutely happy to take a punt on Haynes, but also happy to swing JSOS down back instead. If height was the deciding factor in KPP matchups, Mason Cox would be winning Colemans. You need enough height to compete, but defensive craft, positioning, reading of the ball and a system that leverages strengths of other players are much more important.

 

[BlueZombie]

Unless Martin wants out, he is a hold. Changes the dynamic of our fwd line when he’s in. New high performance guru gets him right, look out. Talent is undeniable and plays with aggression, which we certainly lack fwd


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Couldn't agree more.

 

[gbatman]

I'd be keen on lukosius. 23 year old, probably only just about to mature. Very talented. Criticism is typical of a key position player who has not matured yet. Most don't kick on until they are 23 or 24. Not many key position players under 23 who are great, they are generally more the exception than the rule.

 

[Sector 7G]

Get Houston.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

If he was a free agent sure, but would cost more than just a mid first rounder who will give 5 good years when our under 24s are lacking class.

It has got me stumped why a player would sign a long contract and then decide to come home. Get to FA and then ask for the world like Ben McKay and someone will pay it.

 

[DangerousD]

Rachele. Give them our future first and Moir to get him. Kid loves kicking goals, has pace and loves playing in Melbourne.

He’d cost no more than Hayward so we should be able to pay his salary. I’d be willing to lose Owies to get him.

You forgot to add another 1st round pick, a late teens pick and a kid who slid to 28 because of lack of intent, isn’t getting us close to Rachelle,

 

[Coona Blues]

Have to disagree with you on this Coona (and that is okay)

IMO He plays a role we have covered and is way past his best. He is not a KPD. At 33 and struggling to get a game now (played 7 this year). He is nowhere near the player he was. I just don't see the value.

Our issues are a genuine KPD or two, and run. He fills neither and spots are vital

As for mentor for Kemp. I don't want Kemp anywhere near defence next year and who many does he need?

The question is for me, is he a need and does he make us better? Not for me

Need? We need options in defence. You say you don’t want to see Kemp near defence next year. If we are not playing Kemp back, as well as moving Marchbank, Durdin and Akuei, we need to have two ready to go key defensive options as well as logically drafting a kid.

I have done an exercise looking at every tall defender currently on a list. They have bee contracted if they are any good. So much conversation about moving contracted types. We cannot afford Barrass, we cannot afford free agent Battle. Even Jeremy McGovern thrown around, I believe is still owed a decent amount in backended contracts.

The best option not getting a regular game is Leek Aleer, but he is contracted.
Harry Edwards is hot property, but other than being tall, he is still learning and nit a guaranteed front liner.

The options are not there

We are looking at Haynes, McDonald, Tomlinson, maybe Howard, Keath types if we are taking one.

Haynes is head and shoulders above them at his peak. He has not declined dramatically. GWS have great younger options. I agree he is not perfect, but he offers more than the others, given that he comes without draft collateral. I liked McDonald as an option, but he is boiling on the stove, cooked so well that would not last two years. You shot down Tomlinson a couple of weeks back.

Give me genuine GETTABLE names.

 

[DangerousD]

What if i told you there was a player out there who’s:

Out of contract
Plays a position we are desperate for
Durable
Experienced
Premiership player
30 years old
Scored over 360 goals

As a player he would be a fantastic aquasition.

 

[Ciccio]

Get Houston.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

According to Cal Twomey, Houston will be playing with Melbourne next year, apparently they are pressing hard for him and will have a top 10 pick to satisfy Port.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Yeah i hear our new likely Russell replacement (burgess) is really good at repairing old broken down bodies.

I hear He’s bringing some spare parts from arsenal players so JGov might look a little lop sided but he will be able to get through games.

Have a look at his injury profile over the last 3 years. 2022 and this year were collision injuries. Yes 2023 was a hamstring but even then there’s been no re-occurrence since, unlike Cerra. Reality is we’re not getting a blue chip key defender like Barrass so whoever we get will be cheaper for whatever reason. Pair signing McGovern with drafting O’Farrell to replace Marchbank and I think we are good. I’m even warming to getting Haynes so we could throw Kemp forward on a permanent basis, then we have no need to keep Martin only to be let down by him only playing 6-10 games for the season.

 

[Arr0w]

Houston will get to Demons

I'd be happy with Bergman, unless he is looking to play with his brother

 

[Ninja Worrier]

On board for Haynes as a cheap pick up