List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[martinson]

While everyone is of the opinion that is crazy money for Owies, and rightfully so. Having a look at the bigger picture, you can gain a bit of an understanding about his managers approach.

Carlton paid Martin 650k/year back in 2019 and are currently paying Zac Williams 900k/year, to basically play the same role. With availability and performance of late you’d have Owies out preforming both.

The Blues were lauded for their approach during these two trade periods, is this the negative result of buying players for short term wins?
With the blues being so top heavy, I’d imagine a few others would be feeling similar.

Carlton's landed themselves with some duds over the years haven't they.

Judd and Doc were success stories. Judd wasn't a tough pick seeing he was clearly the best player in the comp and Doc fell into their lap for peanuts.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

At 200cm, a decent kick at goal, a good mark and on the books for a couple more years the club could decide to make Ryan a project over the summer. Toward the end of the VFL season he looked to be getting up and around the ground a bit better.

To play him as one of three talls realistically we would need him to bring the ball to ground, clunk a couple of grabs a game, provide a chop out in the ruck and convert when he gets his chances around goal. Obviously not asking much here.

As previously mentioned by others it is our smalls that will help compensate up forward more than any VFL player or cooked thirty-something we would bring in.

So during the off season a decent amount of ruck work and by the practice matches the coaches would have a good idea whether he is a viable option to be in consideration as competition for the likes of Smith (big fan but a second ruck at the moment).

TBH I was a bit shocked when I first saw Ryan play here but the recruiters dont often miss and must have seen signs. The Gunston pickup (and aftermath) has proved to be one of those misses though.

 

[martinson]

I think his potential team mates may care about his "dickiness" ...stuff him....we are the Premier team so no need to stoop so low.

I know Lynch has a poor reputation amongst opposition supporters but I don't think that spills over into what players think.

Not that I want anything to do with him for the likely cost.

 

[Lazza16]

I know Lynch has a poor reputation amongst opposition supporters but I don't think that spills over into what players think.

Not that I want anything to do with him for the likely cost.

Might have to disagree on this one Marty...my memory is of our guys showing much disdain.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

After a visit to the Carlton board around finals time it seemed that they didnt rate at all the lack of defensive pressure and intent that Owies provided in their forward half.

 

[Comeback Lions]

AFL standard Key Forwards on our list:
Hipwood
Morris

AFL standard Key Backs on our list:
Andrews
Payne
Lester
Doedee
Gardiner

Only counting players ready to go next year. Given that imbalance, I think someone on that Key Back list will be pre-season training with the other group.

I have been thinking this for a while and agree with you and I’d love us to trial Payne as a key forward in the preseason. He has genuine pace on the lead, can take contested marks and can probably kick for goal as well as most of our forwards. If it doesn’t work he can always go back to defence, but with Lester’s outstanding form, we only need one of Gardiner or Doedee to step up and we have 3 key backs. He has the build and height to chop out in the ruck as well. It would be great to add that versatility to our list, while going with a smaller forward line when we need Payne for matchups down back.

 

[irel]

Yeah nah, I think someone on here already figured out who I was.

As much as I love bigfooty I love getting paid and none of you bums will pay my mortgage if I get fired.

Hi Dom. Can I request you get Fages again as a special guest on your podcast? Bit of reminiscing about the year we've just had would be good listening I reckon. Thanks in advance.

 

[Sproj]

What about Doedee up forward?

 

[pod17]

What about Doedee up forward?

Has only kicked three goals in his entire career. That said, he wouldn't have been down there much, and sometimes defenders can make the switch (e.g. Mihocek).

However, given he is coming off the knee the problem (outside of no exposed form) would be limited opportunity over the preseason for him to build experience playing that role.

 

[Nathan Barley]

What about Doedee up forward?

What would he add that we don't currently have in our forwards?

 

[scoman]

Are we sure Hipwood can't ruck in a similar way to Joe if he gets his body right for next year? It's not like Joe dominated hit outs when he was in there, but would pull off a couple of freaky plays each game.

Edit: Granted, it doesn't solve the problem, but if we end up playing another third tall type like Lloyd or Gardiner, bring in someone like Membery, or even a big power type like Lynch or 2MP, Hipwood might actually be the best choice as ruck relief.

 

[StevoJenkins]

Honestly, if we need a forward so bad to maintain structure, then put Lloyd in. If we're just looking for a tall body that can ruck/compete, put in Fort. Then in 2026, when Fort and Omac are starting to breakdown, then bring in Smith.

Ah Chee, Lohman and Rayner already play as pseudo talls, so having a second ruck whose job is just to compete and hit the ball down shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Honestly, if we need a forward so bad to maintain structure, then put Lloyd in. If we're just looking for a tall body that can ruck/compete, put in Fort. Then in 2026, when Fort and Omac are starting to breakdown, then bring in Smith.

Ah Chee, Lohman and Rayner already play as pseudo talls, so having a second ruck whose job is just to compete and hit the ball down shouldn't be a problem.

I don't think Lloyd would help with the structure. I think he's more of a lead up forward like Tom Lynch (formerly of Adelaide)

What about depth? Why wouldn't we explore better options?

 

[StevoJenkins]

I don't think Lloyd would help with the structure. I think he's more of a lead up forward like Tom Lynch (formerly of Adelaide)

What about depth? Why wouldn't we explore better options?

My post is more of a response to posters who are going "What about X defender as a forward for structure?"

If three tall forwards are required, then you play three tall forwards. No point in playing a defender 6-10 years into their career as a defender as a forward.

 

[KissKiss]

Im still very happy for the coaches to turn around to the four of Smith, Fort, Ryan and Lloyd and say there is a spot there for you. Go for your life to grab it. All of them offer slightly different things and we could make each of them work (before resorting to Gardiner/Lester/Doedee forward). Give them a big preseason and then say we will try and give you all a shot next year at the role (but knowing if someone pulls a Morris then they can lock them selves in).

Also with how young Smith and Morris/Lloyd are, the chances are all of them would need a rest at some point (Morris clearly did this year). So if one of them gets the job to start with then the other guys still have a chance to come in and show what they can do

 

[BangyBangy]

Honestly, if we need a forward so bad to maintain structure, then put Lloyd in. If we're just looking for a tall body that can ruck/compete, put in Fort. Then in 2026, when Fort and Omac are starting to breakdown, then bring in Smith.

Ah Chee, Lohman and Rayner already play as pseudo talls, so having a second ruck whose job is just to compete and hit the ball down shouldn't be a problem.

McCarthy plays taller too. Arguably has a better vertical leap than both Lohmann & Rayner, though coming back from a knee, that may be curtailed a little in 2025.

 

[lionraven]

Just reminiscing about trade periods past. Remember this:

Neale declares Lions closer to a flag than Dockers

Pencil Neale's Round 10 trip to Optus Stadium in your calendar.

www.zerohanger.com

So much outrage. How could Brisbane who finished spooners the year before and barely cracked more 5 wins a season for the past 5 years hope to better a Ross the Boss and his masterplanned rebuilt Dockers who are finally getting that KPF missing for their first flag? Dockers were finally on their way up and ready to challenge against. Lions the forever cellar dwellers.

Just love the narrative and when the story works out. Just like when Treloar went to Pies because they had a more promising list than the Tigers.

 

[dlanod]

Just reminiscing about trade periods past. Remember this:

Neale declares Lions closer to a flag than Dockers

Pencil Neale's Round 10 trip to Optus Stadium in your calendar.

www.zerohanger.com

So much outrage. How could Brisbane who finished spooners the year before and barely cracked more 5 wins a season for the past 5 years hope to better a Ross the Boss and his masterplanned rebuilt Dockers who are finally getting that KPF missing for their first flag? Dockers were finally on their way up and ready to challenge against. Lions the forever cellar dwellers.

Just love the narrative and when the story works out. Just like when Treloar went to Pies because they had a more promising list than the Tigers.

"Brisbane posses one of the brightest young lists in the competition that boasts several rising talents like Cam Rayner, Harris Andrews and Alex Witherden."

 

[Sproj]

What would he add that we don't currently have in our forwards?

A more mature body instead of Morris being pushed up to number 2 tall before being ready but it is all more what he allows us not to do and that is disrupt our defense by trying Andrews or Payne up there. Lester will fall off the cliff at some point but doesn’t look like it will be any time soon, so would be nice to fit Doedee somewhere.

 

[Nathan Barley]

A more mature body instead of Morris being pushed up to number 2 tall before being ready but it is all more what he allows us not to do and that is disrupt our defense by trying Andrews or Payne up there. Lester will fall off the cliff at some point but doesn’t look like it will be any time soon, so would be nice to fit Doedee somewhere.

If he can't play forward he's not going to get any respect from opponents

 

[Nathan Barley]

McCarthy plays taller too. Arguably has a better vertical leap than both Lohmann & Rayner, though coming back from a knee, that may be curtailed a little in 2025.

Playing taller is only an advantage when you're opponent is a small. A small playing tall against a tall that plays tall doesn't work

 

[spotthedog1]

What would he add that we don't currently have in our forwards?

A third player at AFL standard.

 

[Brett C]

A more mature body instead of Morris being pushed up to number 2 tall before being ready but it is all more what he allows us not to do and that is disrupt our defense by trying Andrews or Payne up there. Lester will fall off the cliff at some point but doesn’t look like it will be any time soon, so would be nice to fit Doedee somewhere.

Not sure why Lester will fall off a cliff, I wasn't his biggest fan until the last 2 years but his game isn't built in blinding speed or strength.

He is a very smart player who does 99% of what he needs to be well including reading the play which doesn't diminish with age.

 

[Nathan Barley]

A third player at AFL standard.

AFL standard as a forward?

 

[MSB ROYS]

"Brisbane posses one of the brightest young lists in the competition that boasts several rising talents like Cam Rayner, Harris Andrews and Alex Witherden."

Witherden would have been a great player if people didn't run so fast. Needed to play in speed restriction zone...