List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[martinson]

The only ones who don't love a rort are those who aren't in on it.

 

[buttermuffs]

Almost finished the Saints game rewatch for the great Henry Smith debate.

He looks incredibly promising in the ruck but like many have said very very raw up forward. I reckon we can two ruck it if we go all in on working with his forward craft. Split the ruck 60/40 or 65/35 with Oscar rolling forward for decent spells as well.

Someone like Day would be good to pick up as depth at worse or if he can get fully healthy a sneaky option to come in and perform. Though is risky since you need your depth to be healthy.

Onto the Power game!

 

[Nathan Barley]

Almost finished the Saints game rewatch for the great Henry Smith debate.

He looks incredibly promising in the ruck but like many have said very very raw up forward. I reckon we can two ruck it if we go all in on working with his forward craft. Split the ruck 60/40 or 65/35 with Oscar rolling forward for decent spells as well.

Someone like Day would be good to pick up as depth at worse or if he can get fully healthy a sneaky option to come in and perform. Though is risky since you need your depth to be healthy.

Onto the Power game!

We’ve seen Oscar doesn’t like spending less time in the ruck though

 

[buttermuffs]

We’ve seen Oscar doesn’t like spending less time in the ruck though

When was that?

I know he really appreciates rest since it’s hard to ruck at 100% through the game but haven’t seen him not liking spending time forward instead of rucking.

 

[martinson]

Oscar's rucked a lot out of necessity.

Hard to think he wouldn't be better with more rest.

 

[briztoon]

Think Bid #1 gets $10k and Bid #2 gets $5k. So you think Bid 3 as keeping us honest cost their #2 $5k

Picks 2 to 5 each get $5k.

 

[martinson]

The rules have been in place for some time. We're just lucky the Ashcrofts have great genetics and the culture of our club is such that Marcus wants his sons to go there.

It's been open to everybody.

 

[martinson]

Fwiiw I'm quite happy if we don't pick up another Key.

As we found out this year opportunity is the door that opens up assets we didn't know we had.

Our 2 leading goalkickers across 4 finals were Ah Chee and Lohman.

Who knew.

 

[McLuggages]

I've seen a few discussions in here on points but not one that ties it all together...in summary we're pretty close to done and we won't be going in to defecit. Dom Ambrogio has done it again.

Summary

• We officialy have 2472 points - but we actually have closer to 2612 given our later picks will slide up, after Ashcroft, Kako and Lombard bids (+250 points)
• Worst case bid scenario Levi pick 1 + Marshall pick ~15 = 3290pts (so we're currently 800 pts short or 550 short after picks move up)
• Mid case bids - (2+18) = 2802 - we're ~200 short - which should be sorted by the Sharp trade and/or 1 more pick swap
• Best case bid scenario (pick 3 + 22) = 2435 points - we're already well covered
• A Sharp trade should add at least 300 points directly or via swaps
• There are plenty of options to tactically add 100pts here or ther

What we might need:

​

Our Picks as at 11/10:

​

What else we might do?

• Sharp for pick 40 (429) / 49 (287pts) - or a shuffle of picks - we shoud net at least +300 min
• After these 2 - we're 250 short of matching bid 1 - something like...
  • Geelong may trade 38 and 57 for 34 (+100 points)
  • Collingwood's 52 & 55 for 43 (+100 points)

 

[M Malice]

Fwiiw I'm quite happy if we don't pick up another Key.

As we found out this year opportunity is the door that opens up assets we didn't know we had.

Our 2 leading goalkickers across 4 finals were Ah Chee and Lohman.

Who knew.

I hope we make an exception for Ty Gallop.

#fanboy

 

[martinson]

I hope we make an exception for Ty Gallop.

#fanboy

Yeah sure . He looks good.

I'm talking recycled half duds or hasbeens.

 

[SeaOfFire]

Let's build a Fort forward!!

Oscar and Henry.

Forward Command Outpost...aka Fort

Refer: Hawthorns flag team after Buddy departed, 2014.

#Fortthewin

Don't

 

[M Malice]

Refer: Hawthorns flag team after Buddy departed, 2014.

The Cats also won the Premiership the year immediately after Gary Ablett Jnr left for the Suns(2011).

 

[GenericUsername202]

Fwiiw I'm quite happy if we don't pick up another Key.

As we found out this year opportunity is the door that opens up assets we didn't know we had.

Our 2 leading goalkickers across 4 finals were Ah Chee and Lohman.

Who knew.

I don't want to say it because you shouldn't pinpoint the success of our season on 1 player, but we don't win the premiership without Joe this season. Without him, we don't beat GWS. Without him, we don't have a cover for Oscar against Geelong. And he's a proven big game player. In every one of our finals, he was easily one of our best players. We're still a fantastic side without him, but it's going to be a lot harder to win the premiership without him. Eric isn't a ruckman, and with respect, he isn't good enough to replace Joe as the main forward, and Morris is still too young. Our small forwards are still amazing enough to carry us, though. I honestly think the best way forward is to restructure the way we play, because if we turn up next season playing like Joe is in the side, we could be in for some trouble. I think Daly noted a two forward line with Cam playing as a third tall. Joe is a better ruckman and forward than Fort, so playing him as a direct replacement could get iffy. It will be curious to see how Fagan and co addresses this during the transfer period and off-season.

 

[buttermuffs]

Not exactly list management discussion but pertains to replacing Joe.

I’d be interested in the stats on targets inside fifty since I feel like 75% of our inside fifty entries were to Joe since he played that stay at home full forward role. If we don’t pick up anyone significant I’d say it would be a tossup between trying Cameron there again or giving Hipwood a go in that role. I think he would be able to kick 45 goals in a season if he stays healthy in that role.

 

[SeaOfFire]

Not exactly list management discussion but pertains to replacing Joe.

I’d be interested in the stats on targets inside fifty since I feel like 75% of our inside fifty entries were to Joe since he played that stay at home full forward role. If we don’t pick up anyone significant I’d say it would be a tossup between trying Cameron there again or giving Hipwood a go in that role. I think he would be able to kick 45 goals in a season if he stays healthy in that role.

Hip stays doing Hip I reckon

Rotate Fort, Hip and Cam through the goal square.

 

[Section 5]

Fwiiw I'm quite happy if we don't pick up another Key.

As we found out this year opportunity is the door that opens up assets we didn't know we had.

Our 2 leading goalkickers across 4 finals were Ah Chee and Lohman.

Who knew.

I could argue they kicked goals in finals and other games because we had 3 KPF's.
The team has been very successful over the past years because of this setup.
Things may change out of necessity though.
Let's see if any other surprises happen during trade week.

 

[Not a Psycho]

As disappointing as it is to lose Joe, I'd back us in to replace him with a different game style bringing the ball inside 50.
A talented small forward is worth more than a below average key forward regardless of structure. I'm a massive Smith fan but I really don't see him or Oscar doing much more than providing a contest up forward, which I don't think moves the needle in a premiership defense.
I think we found our best rhythm in the back end of finals where we go quick once we've got the corridor, allowing mismatches and smart forwards to do their best work. A healthy McCarthy, Hipwood and Bailey (notwithstanding the addition of Ashcroft, improvement from young players like Lloyd and McLachlan) can only help us with that next year.

 

[martinson]

I could argue they kicked goals in finals and other games because we had 3 KPF's.
The team has been very successful over the past years because of this setup.
Things may change out of necessity though.
Let's see if any other surprises happen during trade week.

If you looked at all the goals they kicked it wasn't much to do with with our 3KPF setup.

That's apart from the ones Ah Chee in particular gave off , especially in those vital last 3 games. We wouldn't have got there without him either.

Who's not going to miss Joe , sure everyone accepts that . But as long as we get someone tall ,warm and vertical down there we have the cattle to adapt and still be a potent forward set up.

We've just won a flag . Don't need to pick up any overrated duds. If we get someone cheap ,resilient, who can play a bit then that's fine . I think people are overreacting to losing Joe.

 

[Perrip]

I've seen a few discussions in here on points but not one that ties it all together...in summary we're pretty close to done and we won't be going in to defecit. Dom Ambrogio has done it again.

This is great content mate!

Terrific write up and data.

 

[Nathan Barley]

When was that?

I know he really appreciates rest since it’s hard to ruck at 100% through the game but haven’t seen him not liking spending time forward instead of rucking.

When hipwood was injured and when we had Stef

 

[Denno]

AH right, yep as originally mentioned (i think) i remember that one

i just heard Whiting mention an until know unknown Bailey injury in the post grand final podcast so i figured there was something else...

I reckon he looked proppy the whole time he was back from that initial injury. Makes sense if he was carrying it still.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I reckon he looked proppy the whole time he was back from that initial injury. Makes sense if he was carrying it still.

I assume it was a surgery and miss most of the season or play the season at ~90% sort of situation

 

[BuntonRules]

I don't want to say it because you shouldn't pinpoint the success of our season on 1 player, but we don't win the premiership without Joe this season. Without him, we don't beat GWS. Without him, we don't have a cover for Oscar against Geelong. And he's a proven big game player. In every one of our finals, he was easily one of our best players. We're still a fantastic side without him, but it's going to be a lot harder to win the premiership without him. Eric isn't a ruckman, and with respect, he isn't good enough to replace Joe as the main forward, and Morris is still too young. Our small forwards are still amazing enough to carry us, though. I honestly think the best way forward is to restructure the way we play, because if we turn up next season playing like Joe is in the side, we could be in for some trouble. I think Daly noted a two forward line with Cam playing as a third tall. Joe is a better ruckman and forward than Fort, so playing him as a direct replacement could get iffy. It will be curious to see how Fagan and co addresses this during the transfer period and off-season.

Paragraphs, man. Please

 

[martinson]

I assume it was a surgery and miss most of the season or play the season at ~90% sort of situation

He's lost half a yard of pace and just that little bit of spark and awareness and I figure at his age where he's at in his career that doesn't happen without an injury reason.