List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[The Flying Belgian]

Have we done this one yet this trade period?

Hollow Knight , your schtick is being borrowed !

 

[Perrip]

Frankly the greatest benefit for us of trading him is probably going to be freeing up a list spot so we can take more picks/keep other players if we want to. I haven't bothered to go through and work out our list spots/picks situation so don't know if we really need to though.

Currently only have 2 list spots available. So if Sharp remains at the Lions, we'd only be able to draft Ashcroft/Marshall + upgrade a rookie + not sign a Joe replacement.

 

[BuntonRules]

Correct.

If we can squeeze more out of the dees then great, but I actually think pick 49 is about what Sharp is worth. If we would prefer to keep him for depth, then that's totally fine too.

Frankly the greatest benefit for us of trading him is probably going to be freeing up a list spot so we can take more picks/keep other players if we want to. I haven't bothered to go through and work out our list spots/picks situation so don't know if we really need to though.

The best thing about trading him, and IMO 49 is nearly fair value, is our culture.

If you reckon your career is better off elsewhere, we will do what we can to facilitate it.

He will leave a lot of his life, but no-one at the Lions will begrudge his decision.

It is part of being premiers, and part of good culture.

 

[Mr Ripper]

49 for Harry a fair deal.

 

[buttermuffs]

3 days would be plenty for the official trade period, clubs would be talking behind closed doors out of the spotlight well before anyway.

I like it being this long since a team like us that just came off a grand final visit can collect its marbles and get right into business but with less of a time crunch.

 

[martinson]

It's actually funny watching this trade period now that we're an established successful team and seeing all the crap teams do exactly what Fitzroy and then Brisbane did when they were crap teams.

Trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

If someone's not much good but might make you a bit better don't even bother with them. All it does is make you think you're improving.

To our list manager's credit we didn't ever really go after never was's and has beens. And when we did it was always a mistake but didn't cost us much in draft capital. Look at our success stories ,they were always good players if not champs. Our duds had had it or were never good players anywhere else anyway.

There's something to be learnt from that.

 

[buttermuffs]

Fort is a premiership player thank you very kindly and don’t you forget it

Interesting enough a Greta example of why Day would be good. There’s a reason we debuted Smith for four games late in the year but when it came to picking a ruck replacement for a grand final we immediately went with the more experienced Fort.

If Morris or Hipwood went down in a final the next week I’d prefer we selected a mature player like Day debuting someone like Lloyd or playing Ryan who may still have only one game.

 

[davemc_lions]

49 for Sharp is fine. I can't see him getting a game here unless we have massive injury issues.

Like Dev and Prior as well if they got a go in a side I think they could be ok.
Keays and Hinge done well once they got a go.
Great to have depth although you do feel for guys who 26-30 spot range.
Another Ashcroft and Marshall not going to help their cause.
interesting nothing said about Tunstill which I feel was behind all 3.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Interesting enough a Greta example of why Day would be good. There’s a reason we debuted Smith for four games late in the year but when it came to picking a ruck replacement for a grand final we immediately went with the more experienced Fort.

If Morris or Hipwood went down in a final the next week I’d prefer we selected a mature player like Day debuting someone like Lloyd or playing Ryan who may still have only one game.

Yes clearly went over blueiris's head unsurprisingly

 

[martinson]

I haven't seen enough of Day to know what his capabilities are except to say I hope he's a lot better than Ryan.

 

[Tom14]

It's actually funny watching this trade period now that we're an established successful team and seeing all the crap teams do exactly what Fitzroy and then Brisbane did when they were crap teams.

Trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

If someone's not much good but might make you a bit better don't even bother with them. All it does is make you think you're improving.

To our list manager's credit we didn't ever really go after never was's and has beens. And when we did it was always a mistake but didn't cost us much in draft capital. Look at our success stories ,they were always good players if not champs. Our duds had had it or were never good players anywhere else anyway.

There's something to be learnt from that.

We've had a ridiculous run of trade period success the last 7 years. Every player we've given up something significant for has been a hit, and a few of the cheap ones worked too. Significant acquistions (either salary or draft pick or both) are bolded.

2017: Charlie, Hodge. 2 for 2.

2018: Neale, McCarthy, Adams, Lyons - 4 for 4 I'd say. Marcus struggled with injury obviously but was good when he played. Traded out Beams for two first rounders but stuffed the first one up (second one eventually became Kai I think??). Made a good pick swap with Gold Coast to get Neale done.

2019: Ah Chee, CEY - 1/2. CEY cost us nothing but salary, and he helpfully forfeited part of it by refusing to get vaccinated. I'm assuming the league either quietly settled his lawsuit or he gave up on it lol. EDIT - forgot Birch. I'd say largely a success so 2/3.

2020: Joe, Cockatoo - 1/2 but Joe is our biggest trade/fa success behind Neale.

2021: Fort - I'm going to say that was a hit. Backup ruck, played his role when Hippy was recovering from the ACL, ended up a premiership winning ruck.

2022 - Dunks, Gunners, McKenna. The CYNICAL may say that Gunners was a flop, but think about this - if Gunners hadn't taught our boys how to play with medium third tall, would McMorris have been successful this year? Checkmate! 3 for 3 in terms of acquisitions.

2023 - Brandon Ryan - jury is out, but not a success so far. He'll have a chance this year though.

Draft wise we ran cold from 2018-20 (kiddy excepted) but bounced back with two great picks in 2021, the father sons in 22 and McMorris last year.

We've also traded out players pretty well in this period too. Showing Witho the door and paying part of his salary was ruthless, but definitely worked out.

Only nitpick is the never ending quest to trade out a future first that resulted in a port minor premiership and a dees minor premiership and flag. Ended up working out as we moved picks from 2019 into 2021, and skipped the largely awful 2020 draft.

Kind of unbelievable that you can be so consistent in the trade/FA space, and attract a big name every 2-3 years. We probably have maybe one more big target in mind for the next couple of years to replace Joe, but our drafted talent is starting to get expensive so we probably have more quiet trade periods to look forward to.

EDIT: I forgot how good the 2017 trade period was with Hodge and Charlie, plus a late, late pick swap after we traded out schache to get in position to draft Bailey and Starce.

By my count we are 13/16 on players brought in since 2017, and all 4 of our significant acquisitions (Charlie, Lachie, Joe, Dunks) have been home runs.

 

[jfn]

Dees can piss off with that 49.Terrible offering.

Could consider a 3 way trade. Harry Sharp to Melbourne, pick 49 to GWS, and Brisbane gets picks 53 and 56. That an extra 427 points.

 

[pod17]

We've had a ridiculous run of trade period success the last 6 years. Every player we've given up something significant for has been a hit, and a few of the cheap ones worked too. Significant acquistions (either salary or draft pick or both) are bolded.

2018: Neale, McCarthy, Adams, Lyons - 4 for 4 I'd say. Marcus struggled with injury obviously but was good when he played. Traded out Beams for two first rounders but stuffed the first one up (second one eventually became Kai I think??). Made a good pick swap with Gold Coast to get Neale done.

Good summary. What is really interesting is having a look at our 2019 semi-final team. Only about half played in the premiership this year. We have done a great job at keeping core talent whilst regenerating the list to be in a position to continually challenge and we've been lucky enough to do it via both trade and draft.

 

[Tom14]

Good summary. What is really interesting is having a look at our 2019 semi-final team. Only about half played in the premiership this year. We have done a great job at keeping core talent whilst regenerating the list to be in a position to continually challenge and we've been lucky enough to do it via both trade and draft.

I think how ruthless we have been in moving players on that weren't good enough has been missed as well. Obviously Witho but Nick Robertson played well as a tagger in that 2019 semi - and got delisted a week later.

JL didn't play except as sub or when there was an injury for the last 2 years as well.

 

[martinson]

Good summary. What is really interesting is having a look at our 2019 semi-final team. Only about half played in the premiership this year. We have done a great job at keeping core talent whilst regenerating the list to be in a position to continually challenge and we've been lucky enough to do it via both trade and draft.

At the core of it we brought in 3 recognised champs in Neale ,Dunkley and Daniher . People had varying views on Daniher but to me he's always been an elite player.

 

[martinson]

I think how ruthless we have been in moving players on that weren't good enough has been missed as well. Obviously Witho but Nick Robertson played well as a tagger in that 2019 semi - and got delisted a week later.

Is it just me Tom? I never thought either were much good with all due respect to them as people and triers.

I think overall where we've succeeded as you've alluded to is the ones that really cost us we've got right and the duds haven't cost us much ,if anything.

We've also been good at developing draftees to the best of their potential.

Good stable clubs attract good players and young draftees are happy to go there. I remember when David Parkin said Fitzroy were building a dynasty and from that point that was the end of them so I'm not getting carried away with what the future holds ,but we're well set up without doubt as far as being a destination club.

 

[Tom14]

Is it just me Tom? I never thought either were much good with all due respect to them as people and triers.

I think overall where we've succeeded as you've alluded to is the ones that really cost us we've got right and the duds haven't cost us much ,if anything.

We've also been good at developing draftees to the best of their potential.

Good stable clubs attract good players and young draftees are happy to go there. I remember when David Parkin said Fitzroy were building a dynasty and from that point that was the end of them so I'm not getting carried away with what the future holds ,but we're well set up without doubt as far as being a destination club.

I thought Witho was good/promising until that 2019 semi. Wasn't even that he couldn't keep up with Daniels which is a tough ask, but he didn't have the game sense to give away a professional free kick and grab daniels before he received the ball.

NRobbo was never going anywhere I agree, but would have been easy enough to keep a player like that on the list for another year after a respectable final. Look at some of the players that stick on lists around the comp, other teams do dumb stuff like that all the time.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

I think how ruthless we have been in moving players on that weren't good enough has been missed as well. Obviously Witho but Nick Robertson played well as a tagger in that 2019 semi - and got delisted a week later.

JL didn't play except as sub or when there was an injury for the last 2 years as well.

I still remember Nick Robertson's dad used to post here, lol.

 

[wantok]

Currently only have 2 list spots available. So if Sharp remains at the Lions, we'd only be able to draft Ashcroft/Marshall + upgrade a rookie + not sign a Joe replacement.

Lyons,Daniher,Lane,Michael,Madden gone so that's 3 list spots,a rookie and catb rookie gone is it not?

On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JasRulz63]

Lyons,Daniher,Lane,Michael,Madden gone so that's 3 list spots,a rookie and catb rookie gone is it not?

On SM-A525F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Our three MSD players are still on our list at this stage.

 

[Perrip]

Lyons,Daniher,Lane,Michael,Madden gone so that's 3 list spots,a rookie and catb rookie gone is it not?

Only 2 list spots. AFL rules state that a club can have a minimum of 36 players to a maximum of 44 players on their playing list - 36 primary list players + 0-6 Rookies + 0-2 Cat B rookies for example.

Since we added an extra 3 players after our 4 ACL injured players were placed on the LTI, we had 38 on our primary list + 7 Cat A rookies + 2 Cat B rookies. Daniher, Lyons, Michael, Madden = 34, Lane = 8 rookies on the list - List changes, contract status and key dates - 2024

Potential players leaving now are: Beecken [OOC], Craven [OOC], Dev Rob [Eagles/Pies], Prior [OOC - Dons are interested] & Sharp [Dees].

Players coming: Levi + Marshall + potentially a 3rd draftee. A Joe replacement player if we have an available list spot. Upgrading someone on the rookie list to the primary list.

 

[McIvor]

Only 2 list spots. AFL rules state that a club can have a minimum of 36 players to a maximum of 44 players on their playing list - 36 primary list players + 0-6 Rookies + 0-2 Cat B rookies for example.

Since we added an extra 3 players after our 4 ACL injured players were placed on the LTI, we had 38 on our primary list + 7 Cat A rookies + 2 Cat B rookies. Daniher, Lyons, Michael, Madden = 34, Lane = 8 rookies on the list - List changes, contract status and key dates - 2024

Potential players leaving now are: Beecken [OOC], Craven [OOC], Dev Rob [Eagles/Pies], Prior [OOC - Dons are interested] & Sharp [Dees].

Players coming: Levi + Marshall + potentially a 3rd draftee. A Joe replacement player if we have an available list spot. Upgrading someone on the rookie list to the primary list.

All I want come draft night is an AMG and I’ll be more than happy.

 

[braddsey]

Could consider a 3 way trade. Harry Sharp to Melbourne, pick 49 to GWS, and Brisbane gets picks 53 and 56. That an extra 427 points.

3-way MEGATRADE to break to trade period wide open!!!
...or we could trade Harry Sharp to Melbourne for pick 49. Then in a separate pick swap, send pick 49 to GWS for pick 53 & 56.

 

[braddsey]

At the core of it we brought in 3 recognised champs in Neale ,Dunkley and Daniher . People had varying views on Daniher but to me he's always been an elite player.

Don't forget Charlie! He was a bit down this year, but that aside has been the best small forward in the comp since he joined us.
...and in the second half of this season while the number of goals he kicked was down, his team output was fantastic. He set the standard with his tacking in the GF.