List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[Sector 7G]

Yep I agree Charlie McKay and a Moir with smalls around them works well. I was more saying I wouldn't be adding a JSOS/Kemp on top of that in the F6.

The team normally picks 7 forwards. Assuming only 1 ruck H will be off the ground/rucking 30-35% of the time, Charlie off the ground 10 %. So you only have 3 talls in the forward line around 30-35% of the time. Otherwise you only have 1 tall up forward 55-60 of the time.

 

[DangerousD]

If you exclude the Hawthorn game where he got injured in the first quarter, he's the number one goal assist player in the AFL, averaging 1.5 a game. Leading Petracca, Daniels, Cogs, Moore, Gulden, Young and Greene in the top 10.

He doesn't win a huge amount of ball, but more often than not he releases teammates into space by hand inside 50. Very valuable and underrated footballer

I don’t see it with him, injury prone, poor disposal, slow, doesn’t kick goals and doesn’t get much of the ball.

I think we should be looking for a higher standard than applies pressure and averages 1.5 goal assists

 

[BlueZombie]

No, I don't think they need to, but it was unusual for him.

I find it bizarre that coaches coach from the boundary as it just doesn't give a good overall view of the game, the running patterns and spread of opposition and what you could do to slow it or plug it. If we were running like a well oiled machine, different, but the more heads in the coaches box the better in my view.

I just made this exact point to my son during our final - being up in the box would give Voss a much better idea of what's going on, so no idea why he's a boundary rider these days.

 

[Blue Pulse]

I just made this exact point to my son during our final - being up in the box would give Voss a much better idea of what's going on, so no idea why he's a boundary rider these days.

Watching Hawthorn from the top deck at the G gives you an awesome picture of their run and spread compared to watching them on TV

 

[ctwenty1]

If Moir steps up early next year our forward mix really has questions. IMO McKay has to become 2nd Ruck option and Kemp up the ground otherwise we are getting way too tall

The mix of Charlie Moir plus McKay when not rucking is exciting. Just need the right smalls surrounding them. I'd like to see Walsh Elijah Lord pushing through forward line at times

Moir is not tall- he is 6’2” (188cm)

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'm just struggling to wrap my head around people who think the small forward issues are Voss related.

Players get used as much as they deserve to be. Whether it's Jesse Motlop or Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

30

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

good leads are more often than not rewarded by the ball carrier . Doesn't take much to go back and watch games of Durdin and Motlop etc doing the most piss weak leads you'll ever see inside 50.

Good leads draw the eyes of the ball carrier whether they're a star or not, every person who's ever played the game at any half decent level knows that.

The complaints over bombing it to Charlie and Harry are misplaced, if they weren't both fantastic at it drawing the eye of the ball carrier they wouldn't get used as often as they do and if the smalls were actually presenting well they'd get used far more often.

Better users and better small forwards would help in both aspects but really we should be hoping to replicate GWS or Geelongs forward structure where we have 3 high half forwards working high up the ground and completely opening up the forward line for quick transition footy to give Curnow and McKay the best opportunities to get the ball delivered to them with space to move.

 

[Soapy V]

Moir is not tall- he is 6’2” (188cm)

I know

 

[ctwenty1]

I know

Sorry- just to clarify, in you post are you saying that a forward line of Charlie kemp Harry and moir would be too tall?

 

[Beyond Blue]

Fogarty Williams and Elijah aren't genuine forwards. Considering the names unmentioned, Cottrell is even worse. Motlop to me is more of a midfield who is too unfit to play there and has been typecast as a forward. The moment I first saw Motlop play I thought mid.

E Hollands just doesn't have the pace and overhead game required of a half forward. He's a mid. Williams lacks the overhead game but he kind of has all the rest, he seems to have some instinct there so Willing to let him have time to develop. Fogarty can not kick at all, hardly gets it and when he does often butchers it, his team mates often avoid going to him because of this. Simply does not have enough impact. Get a game because defensively he does a good job and he's in a team that is weak in this area. I like Silvagni but I would be giving Kemp first dibs in this role, he has been really impressive. Unless we do what I want and try Kemp on the wing.

Motlop shits himself when he get the ball in open play especially up the field and it invariably results in a turnover. He also has no positional awareness as we saw on the weekend. He does have good goalkicking instincts however, and that’s about all. I’d keep him as close to goal as possible.

Durdin is much more of a midfielder than Motlop IMO. Maybe he is the one who should go thru there from time to time. Fogarty already goes through the midfield but I agree if we are serious Fog is not best 22 for a premiership contender and should be a squad player only.

 

[AB_Blue]

Moir is not tall- he is 6’2” (188cm)

Wish I was 6”2”

 

[BlueJet]

I'm just struggling to wrap my head around people who think the small forward issues are Voss related.

Players get used as much as they deserve to be. Whether it's Jesse Motlop or Charlie Cameron good leads are more often than not rewarded by the ball carrier . Doesn't take much to go back and watch games of Durdin and Motlop etc doing the most piss weak leads you'll ever see inside 50.

Good leads draw the eyes of the ball carrier whether they're a star or not, every person who's ever played the game at any half decent level knows that.

The complaints over bombing it to Charlie and Harry are misplaced, if they weren't both fantastic at it drawing the eye of the ball carrier they wouldn't get used as often as they do and if the smalls were actually presenting well they'd get used far more often.

Better users and better small forwards would help in both aspects but really we should be hoping to replicate GWS or Geelongs forward structure where we have 3 high half forwards working high up the ground and completely opening up the forward line for quick transition footy to give Curnow and McKay the best opportunities to get the ball delivered to them with space to move.

It is also gameplan related to some degree.
It's often been a complaint that we don't get the over the top goals that opposition seem to get.
When our smalls get sucked up the ground, they cannot also be ahead of the ball, attacking the goal face.
Similarly, with Charlie representing a static target 30 metres from goal in the heart of f50, it obviously creates a reference point for the opposition to play from & limits our players ability to get into dangerous spots.

Charlie & H do draw the eye of the ball carrier, as they should. The onus is on the man with the ball to look for alternate options as well because as often discussed, there are regularly 2 players drawn to either of them. This means that there has to be open players, often it has been JSOS or Owies, honouring these players, even just to retain possession & hold defenders accountable makes a helluva lot more sense than continually going for the low percentage play.

Better users & more leg speed are also integral, zero argument there but there are quite obviously issues with the manner we move the ball forward & how we structure inside f50.

 

[gbatman]

Motlop shits himself when he get the ball in open play especially up the field and it invariably results in a turnover. He also has no positional awareness as we saw on the weekend. He does have good goalkicking instincts however, and that’s about all. I’d keep him as close to goal as possible.

Durdin is much more of a midfielder than Motlop IMO. Maybe he is the one who should go thru there from time to time. Fogarty already goes through the midfield but I agree if we are serious Fog is not best 22 for a premiership contender and should be a squad player only.

2022 when Durdin was playing well he played a little through the middle and played well then for some unknown reason Voss stopped doing it. He also used to play high half forward and did that well too but again, Voss stopped doing it.

Motlop positions himself pretty well around the ground in open play and links up well when around the middle of the ground. I haven't noticed him squibbing body contact so will take your word for it. His body shape to me says mid as well. It's his endurance that says no. He's got some goal sense but just wasn't kicking any this season.

 

[gbatman]

If Moir steps up early next year our forward mix really has questions. IMO McKay has to become 2nd Ruck option and Kemp up the ground otherwise we are getting way too tall

The mix of Charlie Moir plus McKay when not rucking is exciting. Just need the right smalls surrounding them. I'd like to see Walsh Elijah Lord pushing through forward line at times

Moir will kick more goals and set more up next year if given a go than Cottrell, Durdin, Fogarty and Fantasia. I hope we don't become too obsessed with meeting fitness goals and his youth and use that as an excuse to play "experienced players" and guys with "good running patterns".

I'm super impressed with how Kemp leads up at the ball then follows up at ground level. I've said for years that Kemp is a natural offensive player and a really talented one at that who we keep pushing to be a negative player. He has been really poorly used and coached.

Kemp, Moir, McKay and Curnow is a really good starting point for a forward line. If we could add 7 really good, really quick and talented players to that as well, then we will be absolutely cooking.

I would not mind seeing Cerra rotate through the forward line, he seems to have goal sense as a forward running mid the few times he's played there. Worth giving the opportunity too. Walsh would have to be really good as that plus 1 mid/half forward that Hollands has been playing.

We need to recruit some genuine speed and run into the middle to release Walsh forward more. He's the token strong runner in there and that has him locked in an onball position.

 

[ctwenty1]

Wish I was 6”2”

its a good life

 

[gbatman]

I personally don't see Moir as a small forward. The way I see it is we have Charlie and Harry as locks and one more spot open for JSOS/Kemp/Moir. I don't think 4 of those players will work in the 22 - too tall imo

Genuine half forward flank who can rest forward pocket and still impact. Think Jack Martin end of last season.

Kemp is a tall forward pocket or mobile CHF with the two keys playing deep same as Silvagni.

 

[Ninja Worrier]

Wish I was 6”2”

ferrisb wishes he was 62"

 

[Soapy V]

2022 when Durdin was playing well he played a little through the middle and played well then for some unknown reason Voss stopped doing it. He also used to play high half forward and did that well too but again, Voss stopped doing it.

Motlop positions himself pretty well around the ground in open play and links up well when around the middle of the ground. I haven't noticed him squibbing body contact so will take your word for it. His body shape to me says mid as well. It's his endurance that says no. He's got some goal sense but just wasn't kicking any this season.

IMO Durdin is a midfielder being played as a forward

 

[Soapy V]

Moir will kick more goals and set more up next year if given a go than Cottrell, Durdin, Fogarty and Fantasia. I hope we don't become too obsessed with meeting fitness goals and his youth and use that as an excuse to play "experienced players" and guys with "good running patterns".

I'm super impressed with how Kemp leads up at the ball then follows up at ground level. I've said for years that Kemp is a natural offensive player and a really talented one at that who we keep pushing to be a negative player. He has been really poorly used and coached.

Kemp, Moir, McKay and Curnow is a really good starting point for a forward line. If we could add 7 really good, really quick and talented players to that as well, then we will be absolutely cooking.

I would not mind seeing Cerra rotate through the forward line, he seems to have goal sense as a forward running mid the few times he's played there. Worth giving the opportunity too. Walsh would have to be really good as that plus 1 mid/half forward that Hollands has been playing.

We need to recruit some genuine speed and run into the middle to release Walsh forward more. He's the token strong runner in there and that has him locked in an onball position.

100% agree.

If you had Charlie McKay (2nd Ruck) Moir supported by 4 smalls that should be a good option. You can have Walsh Cerra going through as options along with Kemp & Cripps depending upon match ups, structures, rests etc

 

[Magruder]

Wish I was 6”2”

only 6"2"... me also

 

[lukep_86]

Watching Hawthorn from the top deck at the G gives you an awesome picture of their run and spread compared to watching them on TV

I sit on Level 1 for our games regularly and it's pretty clear how much we're lacking this, and how quickly teams torch us after a long bomb into our forward line.

 

[mochacinolatte]

IMO Durdin is a midfielder being played as a forward

Another classic midfielder to small fwd by us. He was a midfielder as jnr with stints in as a fwd. Seems like he needs touches to get into the game.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

IMO Durdin is a midfielder being played as a forward

Yeah, I just want to see durds get a full pre season in and then hopefully played a lot more around the middle. Same goes for mots, I see these two rotating mid/forward at times

 

[Jimmae]

Dogs wanting a pick in the top 12 for Smith... Wonder if we could get involved with something like the following...

Carlton trade: pick 11 + 31 + F4 to Cats
Cats give back: pick 16 + F1

Carlton trade: blues F1 + Cats F1 to Tigers
Tigers give back: picks 12 + 17 (both depend on what they get for Bolton/ Baker)

Carlton
Out: picks 11 + 31 + F4
In: picks 12 + 16 + 17

Richmond
Out: picks 12 + 16
In: F1 (blues) + F1 (Cats)

Cats
Out: picks 16 + F1
In: Smith (pick 11) + pick 31 + F4

We could turn picks 16 + 17 in to Houston + pick 37 and would essentially make it:
Out: picks 11 + 31 + F4
In: Houston + picks 12 & 37

This is McGovern all over again, no way. You've left the future 1st we've given up out of most of the transactions, by the way.

This kind of thinking just hastens our demise if we don't win a few flags in the next 3 seasons.

 

[Magruder]

Yeah, I just want to see durds get a full pre season in and then hopefully played a lot more around the middle. Same goes for mots, I see these two rotating mid/forward at times

would love to see that, Durds in 2022 looked like a mid to me...

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Why can’t we just play players to there strengths and positions they know/excel in?
imo, there’s two many times where trying to ram a square peg into a round hole.
And I feel like vossy is strangling the the team in how he wants them to play.
Release the shackles and allow line breaking players to line break ect ect