List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[JustOneTime]

owies is our only small forward to put runs on the board....be wary about trading him!

I think this is the general ongoing curse of the Carlton footy club.

After the finals series last year where he butchered all his inside 50 kicks Austin made the decision 12 months out to let him go and find better like the Hayward option (use Owies salary as part way to get a Hayward type). Then to smack Austin in the mouth Owies delivers his best season goal wise and wants a pay rise - another further slap.

Personally i'm torn on him:

• Can lead mark, goal (his bread and butter and value to us)
• Can kick straight inside 40
• Can't kick a goal outside 40/45+
• Is an instigator to fire us up when we need it
• Loses most groundball 50/50s
• Great teammate and resilient
• Defensibly, doesnt really assess the close in targets that well and opponents escape easily with the ball
• Tries hard and chases but limited in effect of catching anyone by surprise.
• Last year when the pressure was on scrubbed the inside 50 kicks along the ground/or short of teammate which would have marked his card with Austin
• A great year this year for him to thumb his nose at Austin and make it hard
• Curses Carlton because like the situation with Young and Pitto is going to get over-paid if he stays

Loyalty first so resign him but please don't budge and overpay him. Young re-notiated when Weitering was out getting overpaid for a squad player. Pitto overpaid when TDK was a chance to leave to the Cats or threat of it. It's bloody annoying as we need the salary cap space elsehwere.

 

[goreds]

the game genuinely does not change this fast. Its up to doc. If he's got athleticism left or not. Tbh the role Ollie Hollands played last weekend is Dochs best spot.

No we don't. We could've done it all year whilst cerra hasn't played (before the forward line evaporated) by giving Hewett and Kennedy more midfield time and rotating them more instead of watching Kennedy play 8 games as third tall, a couple as sub and even dropped... It's been simply obvious all season. Would've easily been able to keep Walsh on the wing/ outside the contest more (not completely ofc) and probably kept acres and Walsh healthier and allowed Ollie to play more behind the ball earlier which he's excellent at.

We played West Coast, Kennedy and Hewy were always going to dominate.

Yes we do need Cerra….

I would love to be coaching against a midfield of Cripps, Kennedy and Hewy.

Why is it so difficult for some on here to not see that our midfield is GARBAGE by foot and slow to close and spread??

 

[9874123]

Pretty unrealistic but I would be very happy trading our future first plus whatever we could get for Owies to the Crows for Rachele. This would let us use our first rounder this year on Travaglia or a key back

 

[JustOneTime]

Big no for Houston.

Doesn't fit a need and not really an upgrade on anyone in the position.

I rate Doc, Saad and Newman above him.

Cowan is developing beautifully so don't want him to get less opportunities and Boyd can play a larger role I reckon.

Also the draft pick cost for a player who is not a star is ridiculous.

On a wing: Would double O Hollands disposals on a wing. Tackles more and kicks way more efficiently.

In defence would double Boyd's possessions and out tackle him.

Quicker than Newman and an upgrade on him. Saad is better though.

If we can still get a KPDer and Houston and Haynes it would redefine our defence. I just dont know if that is possible salary cap wise and pick wise.

 

[JJBagger]

If Houston is available for this years first and second pick, while getting something of reasonable value back, and lose Owies for a second rounder, that could be a net win. I want Owies to stay, and I’m very happy he’s a blues man, but if the right price is there if we are going to lose him, I think we can turn it into a positive. Still don’t think he leaves though.

Houston makes us better in the immediate term, which I’m hearing is when we need to capitalise from a lot of fans. If we are just going to get a mid in the draft that’s going to be in a Jack Carroll-type situation, then I would rather get Houston. However, if we were in a spot to get a player in a position of need that can come in and impact almost instantly, then I would do that. But I don’t think a first round pick this year is going to give us the output or impact a Houston would over the next 4 or 5 years.

Interesting discussion, nonetheless. Excited to see how it pans out

 

[Opium]

I’m the opposite. I think he’s underrated.

He’s a smart footballer been made to play a makeshift role that doesn’t really suit him yet he’s done well

IMO Jack is a natural defender and if given a go his smarts, workrate and unselfishness will make a great combination with Weitering

Ironically his best game of the season was against Port where he kicked 4 goals playing forward and ruck before he got injured. Brings pressure and intensity. Is best 22 every day of the week for me.

 

[Soapy V]

On a wing: Would double O Hollands disposals on a wing. Tackles more and kicks way more efficiently.

Ollie last week in his first go at HB had 24 possessions at 83% and 7 tackles

 

[Soapy V]

On a wing: Would double O Hollands disposals on a wing. Tackles more and kicks way more efficiently.

In defence would double Boyd's possessions and out tackle him.

Quicker than Newman and an upgrade on him. Saad is better though.

If we can still get a KPDer and Houston and Haynes it would redefine our defence. I just dont know if that is possible salary cap wise and pick wise.

I don't think anyone doubts Houston ability. He is a Gun. If it was the old days when we could buy anyone I'd be all for him

Issue is he will cost a lot picks and SC wise and does he help a need? At HB we have Saad Newman Cowan Ollie Boyd Wilson Cincotta on our list

 

[Andypooh23]

Rachele dropped for this week.
Get on the phone Austin.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Ollie last week in his first go at HB had 24 possessions at 83% and 7 tackles

Played like a sweeper roll. Absolutely suits him to a tee

 

[JustOneTime]

I don't think anyone doubts Houston ability. He is a Gun. If it was the old days when we could buy anyone I'd be all for him

Issue is he will cost a lot picks and SC wise and does he help a need? At HB we have Saad Newman Cowan Ollie Boyd Wilson Cincotta on our list

I agree that the price in this case is everything. I dont want to pay the earth in picks or salary given his age profile. But we'd be remiss to not look into the situation.

I've already said in a previous post to not let Houston get in the way of finding a lockdown KPDer.

 

[JustOneTime]

Ollie last week in his first go at HB had 24 possessions at 83% and 7 tackles

Want to see him do it again vs Saints but liked what I saw vs a weak Eagles outfit.

Ollie on the wing this season has fumbled and been tackled dead quite a lot and collapsed in the tackles like Walsh. I dont like quoting one game as evidence. But if he backs up vs Saints who are physical then I will pay more attention to it.

Having said all of the above I rate O Hollands HIGHLY and just think he has had a tough year. I'm bullish on him in seasons ahead.

 

[BlueTongue]

With the back issue you lose your power (core) which costs you with your disposal. Even half a step turns good players into bog ordinary ones…

He’s never been elite by foot and now he is below average. I agree the wing is were he should be but we need Cerra back for that to work well. Cerra in the middle is the elite kicker we need…

I understand the back injury affects kicking and judgement/balance, but that's exactly why do don't target contests that require pinpoint accuracy. Errors in judgement calling for the ball while under serious heat. I think his judgement is off, may be due to pain killing meds, but he hasn't been as sharp as usual.

I don't think Cerra's disposal is elite, but he's definitely more suited to the on-baller role than Walsh.

Unfortunately we are cursed with injuries and injury prone players, so we need to build depth by rewarding our young blokes by giving them a spot for good form when our Top Tier players are injured. I don't mean the last 2 weeks necessarily, but given that we've had a few players carrying significant injuries for a while, not sure why we play them injured and them rush them back unfit.

Pressure to win a flag I guess but the irony is that you dont win flags with only 22 players playing well, you need depth, which we have not built up in the last few years.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Rachele is a match winner and has incredible X factor. We lack so much of this. I'd be taking him in a heartbeat.

Considering the AFL seem hellbent on turning the game into touch footy….yeah, he could be perfect.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

That pic of Jack Martin needs photoshopping

1st thing I noticed as well….

 

[King Cripps]

Houston will not be at the Blues next year as it will cost too much in draft and salary cap capital

 

[bradfisher14]

Rachele has played all 22 games this year, 0 games as sub.

Yep - I think I confused talk of him getting dropped in the media with him actually getting dropped lol

 

[DangerousD]

Whether it’s Houston, Rachelle, B.Smith, Barras, McGovern, Battle or whoever else, we need to strengthen our best 22, otherwise we will stagnate and get overtaken.

We dont have an up and coming, young and inexperienced side, there’s not a great deal of internal growth left, so its a concern if we only add some players around the edges and expect a big uplift next year.

Looking at Fremantle and them targeting Baker and Bolton, why will we overtake them next year? Why will we jump Geelong after they add Smith? Hawthorn if they add Battle and Barass?

With a super tight comp, if teams around us or above are adding better quality than us, then how will we keep up?

 

[Beyond Blue]

If the Crows drop Rachele after his act of immaturity last week in the heat of the Showdown rivalry I'd be getting into his ear as soon as possible.

AFL great cautions Crows to “tread warily” if omitting controversial Josh Rachele

“Do you want him in that frame of mind in the off-season?”

www.sen.com.au

I’ve been pretty vocal that I think this is the guy we need, more than Houston who is obviously a much better player right now. IMO we really need a dynamic small forward with goal sense who can play thru the midfield in bursts.

He has some question marks over him currently but that just means the opportunity to get him will never be better until he’s out of contract in 2029 which is too far away to help us.

I think he costs us our first round pick but that’s still cheaper in terms of trade capital than Houston (and Barrass and Petracca) all of whom will also command a higher salary and are much older than him so I’d be happy if we did it at.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Whether it’s Houston, Rachelle, B.Smith, Barras, McGovern, Battle or whoever else, we need to strengthen our best 22, otherwise we will stagnate and get overtaken.

We dont have an up and coming, young and inexperienced side, there’s not a great deal of internal growth left, so its a concern if we only add some players around the edges and expect a big uplift next year.

Looking at Fremantle and them targeting Baker and Bolton, why will we overtake them next year? Why will we jump Geelong after they add Smith? Hawthorn if they add Battle and Barass?

With a super tight comp, if teams around us or above are adding better quality than us, then how will we keep up?

We’ve already done the trades and spent the salary cap over the past few years and don’t have the space to make moves now that other teams do. We made our moves and targeted the guys we thought would get the job done. Saad, Cerra, McGovern, Williams, Hewett, Acres, E. Hollands. Whether we got these players right or wrong our flag chances are tied to them. We’re all in so our list is in win the premiership now mode. We’re not blooding in the same amount of youth so it’s chips in.

We have the list by and large that is capable of the premiership. We don’t need to be targeting gun players who will hamper our ability to retain important players (Weitering, TDK) and plug list holes. We need to target durable players who cover deficiencies and make us better. We need a KPD. Not an old, third tall like Haynes. Yes we’d love Houston but not at the cost both draft and salary wise as it would stop us addressing more pressing needs. I know everyone froths over a big trade like an adrenaline hit but we’ve done that and don’t have the resources to do anything but shrewd pickups like Acres now.

Our big growth will come from having fit players on the park which will hopefully be addressed by replacing perennially injured players with guys actually available to play and a change in our strength and conditioning approach.

And regardless of whether Freo make the finals or not we’ve beaten more top 8 teams so I think our list is better. We also pantsed Geelong. I’m not worried about those teams. It’s GWS, Hawthorn, Sydney with good young cores that are the worry. We’ve beaten 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. You can make a big argument it’s mainly injuries that have hampered us. That has to be the main focus we address.

 

[Foucault1989]

We've had an ongoing parade of hacks over the last 30 years....a percentage of our list..plus some hero players expected to carry the burden.
I know nothing about these boys but I do know they need to have real abiliity at the top level and durable bodies.

Are you just here to troll our past players by calling them "hacks"?

I'm so outraged and offended I might make several posts about you but not reply to a reasonable request to provide context....

 

[macky99]

We’ve already done the trades and spent the salary cap over the past few years and don’t have the space to make moves now that other teams do. We made our moves and targeted the guys we thought would get the job done. Saad, Cerra, McGovern, Williams, Hewett, Acres, E. Hollands. Whether we got these players right or wrong our flag chances are tied to them. We’re all in so our list is in win the premiership now mode. We’re not blooding in the same amount of youth so it’s chips in.

We have the list by and large that is capable of the premiership. We don’t need to be targeting gun players who will hamper our ability to retain important players (Weitering, TDK) and plug list holes. We need to target durable players who cover deficiencies and make us better. We need a KPD. Not an old, third tall like Haynes. Yes we’d love Houston but not at the cost both draft and salary wise as it would stop us addressing more pressing needs. I know everyone froths over a big trade like an adrenaline hit but we’ve done that and don’t have the resources to do anything but shrewd pickups like Acres now.

Our big growth will come from having fit players on the park which will hopefully be addressed by replacing perennially injured players with guys actually available to play and a change in our strength and conditioning approach.

And regardless of whether Freo make the finals or not we’ve beaten more top 8 teams so I think our list is better. We also pantsed Geelong. I’m not worried about those teams. It’s GWS, Hawthorn, Sydney with good young cores that are the worry. We’ve beaten 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. You can make a big argument it’s mainly injuries that have hampered us. That has to be the main focus we address.

The commentary we have done trades and we don't have cap space is not entirely correct.
lt is flexible tool, l would suggest at least 4-5 players on reasonable $ will be let go, plus potentially Carroll & Owies may be traded for picks also, we have the core group to challenge, but the fact we are in a similar position now to Voss's 1st year indicates we still have some finishing touches to the list without doubt.

l personally would prefer we go to the draft heavily this year & bring in some talented young players, but can also see the Houston argument, we're we have many older defenders & combined with the fact he is a elite kick.
Maybe a F1st and a pick acquired from Carroll may give us a chance as don't see many clubs giving away a 1st round pick this year.

 

[Accidental genius]

The commentary we have done trades and we don't have cap space is not entirely correct.
lt is flexible tool, l would suggest at least 4-5 players on reasonable $ will be let go, plus potentially Carroll & Owies may be traded for picks also, we have the core group to challenge, but the fact we are in a similar position now to Voss's 1st year indicates we still have some finishing touches to the list without doubt.

l personally would prefer we go to the draft heavily this year & bring in some talented young players, but can also see the Houston argument, we're we have many older defenders & combined with the fact he is a elite kick.
Maybe a F1st and a pick acquired from Carroll may give us a chance as don't see many clubs giving away a 1st round pick this year.

What we haven’t got right since Voss tenure are a kpd (young and durdin haven’t worked) and our ball movement from back half to front half and f50 entries.

So in part list management and in part coaching…

Coaching was good last week against weagles. Hopefully we transition to that style of play.

2 areas to work on over off season…
a KPD and modern game style.

 

[JJBagger]

What we haven’t got right since Voss tenure are a kpd (young and durdin haven’t worked) and our ball movement from back half to front half and f50 entries.

Aren’t we a top 4 team in scoring from our back half?

 

[Blue__Balls]

Whether it’s Houston, Rachelle, B.Smith, Barras, McGovern, Battle or whoever else, we need to strengthen our best 22, otherwise we will stagnate and get overtaken.

We dont have an up and coming, young and inexperienced side, there’s not a great deal of internal growth left, so its a concern if we only add some players around the edges and expect a big uplift next year.

Looking at Fremantle and them targeting Baker and Bolton, why will we overtake them next year? Why will we jump Geelong after they add Smith? Hawthorn if they add Battle and Barass?

With a super tight comp, if teams around us or above are adding better quality than us, then how will we keep up?

Dunno about that. Bottom up:

Wilson was drafted with a view to adding much needed pace, is developing in the ressies but could easily feature next year. He's not likely to be a gun from day one, but he adds something we lack.

Moir has played one quarter, fantastic skills, definitely scope for him to improve us. Kid could be anything.

Lord and Binns with 1 and 1.1 games respectively, both shown they can play at the level when called upon. Not likely to feature prominently yet but they're ready to be AFL-grade depth which is handy from a player management perspective to get the most out of our senior players.

Kemp, Hollands (x2), Cowan, Motlop, Boyd, Cincotta and Durdin all with less than 50 games to their names have plenty of growth still in them. Carroll too, if he doesn't seek a trade.

De Koning, amazingly, has played more games in his career than Pittonet. Both are only in the 70s though, neither have peaked.

Williams has played maybe 5 games as a forward - more time in the new role will very likely come with improved connection with the other forwards.

Walsh and Curnow have both been playing under duress this year. A change in fitness management now and a preseason spent getting them right for next year could easily see both improve significantly in 2025.

If you think we don't have significant internal growth potential then you're not looking very closely.

Some of this will be balanced out with a bit of a decline from some older players, but with Newman our oldest at 31yrs, I'd say we're better placed than almost any other club in this regard.