List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[DangerousD]

Form a List point of view, what is better? (Hypotheticals)

Houston for 1st and 2nd round pick and $800k over 5 years

or

Pick 10 in draft
Trade 2nd round pick for say Garcia and get picks back
Extra money in SC for FA next year
Not having to trade/move as many picks for Campo twins

*Haynes will be done regardless

The length of contract isn’t a concern, if the LM decide its ok then I’m happy.

Houston is a known quantity, has over 160 games of evidence to go off, knows the coach, has friends at the club.

Pick 10 has never played AFL football, going off averages has roughly a 40-50% chance of not making the grade at all and if they do, its unclear of how long until they do.

If you can get Garcia for a 2nd with picks back, we can do that even if Houston comes.

We could get Houston imo for our 1st rounder this year and maybe something small extra, we get Haynes, we then have the opportunity to trade back in to the first round or early second to add more youth, we then take the two twins.

We would have addressed defensive needs, we would have improved our best 18 for the short and medium term and we haven’t neglected youth.

 

[BluStreak]

Second and third efforts sure, but that isn't applicable to defensive third only. So not sure why this is relevant to JSOS being in defence. Defensive pressure inside forward 50 is huge in the modern game.

He isn't the perfect size, he is 1.91m which would mean he would be the third tall at best and often find himself undersized. He would have to play intercept so would he take McGovern's spot? McGovern is probably a better user of the football and is quicker so not sure how this makes us better.

We have a best 22 medium forward spot availible due to Martin never being fit. If we can fit Mckay, Curnow and two rucks we can fit McKay, Curnow and JSOS.

Gov has very different attributes to JSOS, the main one being pace. McGovern is really quick off the mark.

If JSOS was closer to 200cm I would agree, fact is he isn't and we really don't have a burning need for medium defenders. We do have a need for a third tall forward who is consistent.

I don't think JSOS is a KPD defensive option, he isn't strong a big body that can wrestle and isn't tall.

I think we need to persist with L Young rather than throwing an undersized defender to the wolves as we have with Kemp this year.

Jack is 1.94m which puts him in the company of many Defenders currently playing. Jack 's body on body work is up there with May's (given his ruck work as an example) so I don't see any concern with him being trialled in Defense. His 2nd and 3rd efforts would improve our defense one on ones.

 

[bigm386]

Jack is 1.94m which puts him in the company of many Defenders currently playing. Jack 's body on body work is up there with May's (given his ruck work as an example) so I don't see any concern with him being trialled in Defense. His 2nd and 3rd efforts would improve our defense one on ones.

191cm on Blueseum regardless if its 191 or 194.

The fact of it for me is at his height and strength he won't be able to go with the bigger KPF and will get burnt for pace against those he can phyiscally match up against.

Not sure why we would do it when we don't have a third tall forward.

For context Kemp is listed as 1.92cm and was getting rinsed for weeks on bigger forwards.

 

[ferrisb]

The logic around JSOS playing back because his dad was a full back amazes me.

It's like saying Mia Fevola should play Full Forward because her dad did.

Spent chunks of his junior footy there, so it's not just nostalgia behind it.

He's hard working and a scrapper (meant as a compliment; he chases, tackles, scrounges at ground level etc). All qualities that would suit a 3rd defender. He's also not much of a contested mark, so might be better off spoiling rather than trying win the ball in the air.

I think he'd make an excellent defender IF NOT for the fact that his lack of speed would leave him exposed. Especially against 3rd tall types that should be quicker than the KPFs.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I'm really sorry, I'm sure Jack is a nice person.

Under no conditions should Jack be getting another contract. Not even on the rookie list. He is simply not up to playing AFL football consistently enough.

Disagree

 

[ferrisb]

The logic around JSOS playing back is just common sense for various reasons. Sure, that (b/c his Dad did) isn't at the top of the list. But:

• He has some of the best defensive capabilities and second-third efforts of anyone in our team
• He's the perfect size and has good overall ability and footy IQ, having played in various positions
• He has fallen out (pre-injury even, arguably) of locked best 22 spot up forward given the team has developed
• We've had success turning even the most maligned player in Gov into a high-quality backman
• It seems the rage these days to turn 'failed' forwards into excellent defenders to reasonable success
• JSOS is a team player so would give it everything to make it work
• It's worth trying before paying up to get an expensive KPD option given our list and salary situation
• He already has excellent chemistry and connection with the team so would slot into the backs group easily

I'm 100% on board the JSOS in defense and Kemp up forward this offseason.

I agree with ALL of this.

Except IMHO he's too slow to be a defender.

 

[BluStreak]

191cm on Blueseum regardless if its 191 or 194.

The fact of it for me is at his height and strength he won't be able to go with the bigger KPF and will get burnt for pace against those he can phyiscally match up against.

Not sure why we would do it when we don't have a third tall forward.

For context Kemp is listed as 1.92cm and was getting rinsed for weeks on bigger forwards.

Jack and Kempy are two different people with two difference play styles and comparisons are never accurate because of experience and attitudes. Jack is far more experienced than Kemp and I could just go on. Hopefully you get picture. They are not the same.

 

[goreds]

Houston is one of the best inside 50 kicks in the comp. That is what we need

Pretty simple really!

 

[Beer n Skittles]

191cm on Blueseum regardless if its 191 or 194.

The fact of it for me is at his height and strength he won't be able to go with the bigger KPF and will get burnt for pace against those he can phyiscally match up against.

Not sure why we would do it when we don't have a third tall forward.

For context Kemp is listed as 1.92cm and was getting rinsed for weeks on bigger forwards.

I don't think Kemps defensive issues are a lack of height though, more just a lack of body contact. He plays as a very genteel defender, trying to leap and spoil without ever touching his opponent. Weirdly he was more than happy to smash bodies up forward though.

Not convinced Jack could do a better job down back but he would have a bit more mongrel about him.

 

[ferrisb]

He kicked 3 in a half (can't remember which game) and dished a soda off to Orazio - would have been 4 in a half!

 

[TENACIOUS]

I don't usually get involved in the rumour space.

Not that this is news really but maybe just put more weight behind it, Haynes and Houston should be at the club next year.

Hope we’re not going to pay the 2x first rounders that the media are saying Port want..

 

[Jatz]

Disagree

For what purpose would you keep him around?

He's played 54 out of 109 games since joining us. He's not even played in half the games. This season has clearly been his worst - he's getting older and more injury prone.

I think he looks good when he's on the park but if we are serious about winning a flag, we can no longer carry a player that simply cannot stay healthy.

 

[ferrisb]

If any of our forwards went back, it'd probably be Charlie.
Better recovery & plays more of a 360 degree game.

I'm not sure Charlie has the discipline to play as a defender full time.

Like how TDK tried to take mark of the year every match for about three years. Some guys are just wired for excitement over reliable dourness.

 

[goreds]

No, it's much more likely that people are looking at his recent poor form and that that is clouding their assessment of how he was playing in his first 11 games.

I think it’s his back.

You can never go at 100% when you have to ‘manage’ a back injury.

He needs 3 months off to hopefully get it right, I’m concerned for him to be honest…

 

[bradfisher14]

Sounds like Bailey Banfield

41

Bailey Banfield

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.3

3star

D

9.5

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.8

4star

G

0.5

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.2

3star

is staying at the Dockers.

Bit of a shame, could've been a good Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

replacement.

 

[Benaly28]

The problem is that we need picks for points don’t we for the Campo boys so we’re limited in that trade space.

Future picks might be better if trading players for more picks.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jatz]

Sounds like Bailey Banfield is staying at the Dockers.

Bit of a shame, could've been a good Jack Martin replacement.

I really don't see it with him. The Freo fans really dislike him as well.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

No, it's much more likely that people are looking at his recent poor form and that that is clouding their assessment of how he was playing in his first 11 games.

Maybe some Stam, but I'm definitely not suffering from a recency bias. If you look at our voting threads over the season, you'll see that I haven't rated his games as highly as most.

Yes, he racked up the possessions. My concern is that one in 3 of his possessions is contested, but he has gone at about 65% efficiency over the season. He has has 7 goal assists for the season, and 3 of those came in the win over GWS. He has 5 goals for the year. He averages one score launch per game and 6 score involvements. The inconsistency is score involvements is shocking to me. He had 17 in one game, but he has 7 games which were well below AFL standard for his role.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Walsh detractor, but it has been clear to me he has struggled in some facets compared to his usual high standards.

We don't have to agree, but my reasons are based on what I feel I've seen, even if I've seen it differently to others.

 

[xDQ82x]

Hope we’re not going to pay the 2x first rounders that the media are saying Port want..

i agree, personally I don't see Houston as a need. An upgrade for sure, but I think we have other holes we should fill first.

Also Carlton always seem to overpay

 

[I bleed Blue]

Will spew if we let Matty Owies go / push him out.

Still our most reliable small forward. Until Durdin/ Fog/ Motlop can to past him, we should be locking him away.

 

[Stamos]

I think it’s his back.

You can never go at 100% when you have to ‘manage’ a back injury.

He needs 3 months off to hopefully get it right, I’m concerned for him to be honest…

I'm sure that it is a major factor for his drop in form over the last 7 weeks

 

[Stamos]

The inconsistency is score involvements is shocking to me. He had 17 in one game, but he has 7 games which were well below AFL standard for his role.

I like Score Involvements as a statistical measure of impact.
Score Involvements are wildly inconsistent stat though, depending on the game. For example, our game against the Dees, only 2 players on the field had more than 5.

 

[Matty411]

I agree with ALL of this.

Except IMHO he's too slow to be a defender.

Hasn't stopped some defenders! Surely he can outrun Lewis Young? Put some muscle on and work on bodywork then get him spending time with the back six over preseason. Reckon he'd do fine.

Hell, if Rory Lobb can emerge from nowhere as a good KPD, JSOS will be great.

Second and third efforts sure, but that isn't applicable to defensive third only. So not sure why this is relevant to JSOS being in defence. Defensive pressure inside forward 50 is huge in the modern game.

He isn't the perfect size, he is 1.91m which would mean he would be the third tall at best and often find himself undersized. He would have to play intercept so would he take McGovern's spot? McGovern is probably a better user of the football and is quicker so not sure how this makes us better.

We have a best 22 medium forward spot availible due to Martin never being fit. If we can fit Mckay, Curnow and two rucks we can fit McKay, Curnow and JSOS.

Gov has very different attributes to JSOS, the main one being pace. McGovern is really quick off the mark.

If JSOS was closer to 200cm I would agree, fact is he isn't and we really don't have a burning need for medium defenders. We do have a need for a third tall forward who is consistent.

I don't think JSOS is a KPD defensive option, he isn't strong a big body that can wrestle and isn't tall.

I think we need to persist with L Young rather than throwing an undersized defender to the wolves as we have with Kemp this year.

Agree we should persist with Young but after a block of form a few years ago, he's been really average so I'm not confident he's our medium/long-term option down there.

JSOS (listed as 194cm by my account) may be in that in-between size but there are plenty of great KPDs who are sub-195, including:

• Wilkie - STK (191)
• May - MEL (193)
• Lever - MEL (194)
• McCartin - SYD (194)
• Aliir - POR (194)
• Balta - RIC (194)
• Battle - STK (193)
• Frost - HAW (194)

He has the traits and the motivation (you'd expect) and a higher base to succeed than a) most outside the system who are gettable, and b) some blokes who've been successfully trialed in that role recently across the league.

Not saying it would be a rousing success but to dismiss it is foolish.

 

[Stamos]

Until Durdin/ Fog/ Motlop can to past him, we should be locking him away.

That's not really how list management works though.

 

[Soapy V]

The problem is that we need picks for points don’t we for the Campo boys so we’re limited in that trade space.

Future picks might be better if trading players for more picks.

How many? Lots of talk Ben will go 30 plus and Lucas could be very late or even a rookie. Very realistic we may only need to match one pick which will be easy