List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[Y Goat]

For mine, a two year (two trade period) strategy is needed, as we can't fix all our issues this season given our constraints. The players that we so desperately need may be available end of 2025.

Firstly, Noah Balta is the partner for Weitering that we need. Athletic, has mongrel, and will be 26 at time of signing. RFA in 2025, so Richmond have matching rights, but put a band 1 offer in front of him and I think Richmond take the Pick 2 compo (assuming they get the spoon).

Secondly, Zak Butters is the low-set, zippy mid that we lack. RFA in 2026, so a 'pre-agent' next year. Hinkley contract expires next season, so I think he gets the boot then. Hinkley's pet (Butters) may want a fresh start back in Vic. We must keep our 2025 1st rounder, as the start point for this trade.

Gresham (Orazio/Williams replacement) and Ison (long term Acres/Newman replacement) as NGA talents in 2025 is also a blessing in terms of drafting.

What does that mean for 2024 off-season?

Hit the draft, clear out salary where possible and trust the upcoming kids as players 23-34 on the list. Get the system and dynamic right, and then get the finishing pieces next year.

Invest heavily in small forwards and half forwards. Bargain pick ups of Garcia (WB) and Rosas (GC) is a start.

Use Owies, Pittonet, Kennedy to get 2nd rounders, package them up for Pick 12 from GC (points for Lombard) and go to Melbourne offering Cerra and Pick 12 for Pick 5 and a mid-2nd.

Motlop, Martin and Carroll shipped west for 4th rounders or late future picks.

Use the opened up cap for 2025 to pay TDK and Weiters and bring other payments forward to allow for acquisitions of Butters and Balta end of 2025.

Trainor and Berry in with Picks 5 and 11
Dattoli with our mid-2nd
Match bids for both Campos with our slew of 4ths.

Darcy Macpherson (delisted former GC small defender) and Will White (VFL) as rookies. Matt Duffy in as a Cat B.

Roll with a makeshift Haynes, Trainor or Young at KPD2, until 2026 when we can flick Haynes or McGovern for Balta. Trainor for me is McGovern's long term replacement at 3rd tall interceptor.

Dreaming, I know and its definitely risky - but lets be aggressive and proactive this off-season. I'm ok taking one small step back to set up our next 5 years.

Going after butters and Balta - I’m in. Exactly what we need. Transformational.

And, if Ken goes (say, out in straight sets again), go for Butters now, maybe Ken comes too as a mentor/advisor role

 

[mochacinolatte]

I think what we also lack is a real lower set player with good agility. Your Lachie Neale or Tom Mitchell/Sam Mitchell type as well as outside run. Viney in Melbourne premiership. Daniel in the Bulldogs premiership. Diesel, us etc etc. Nearly all the top sides have a small nuggety centreman. Walsh is the closest thing we have. Cerra is slow, he's got slower and lacks mobility. I think his fitness has gone to crap. Hewett, Cripps and Kennedy are straight line runners who also lack outside speed.

Gee our backline looked like stunned mullets when we had it the other night, nowhere to go, midfield just lacking in hard/fast running players who read the game well and give options. We probably failed to open space forward of the ball as well.

At one stage last season we had Cripps struggling, Cerra out and Docherty and Dow playing midfield and we looked better than we have all this season.

That's what we need in the draft, draft a few ready made and a few youngsters and hope we can adjust our list. Gee we have been slow to do anything. I've known for the last three seasons, how have we brought in only Lord in this year's MSD?
Voss had his favorite midfield in and it got a belting from the 5th place team. I hope that really stamps what I've been saying for 3 seasons on coaching and list management.

I hope we get the names you have mentioned. Just hope the coach doesn't plonk them on flanks and in pockets. I am hoping Ben Camporealy is also a tackling machine with a solid outside game.

The game is at a point where I wouldn't consider anyone who is slow unless they are a special talent.

Interesting perspective. Cerra is slow because he has not hamstring this year. We looked pretty good when Docherty was getting midfield minutes at one point.

From what I read from posters, Campo sought of fits the bill in that regards.

Honourable nugget mention Chad Warner from Sydney fits that description.

 

[DangerousD]

As it stands, 2 firsts is very unlikely, but the first option would be a better chance of upgrading 31 to a high 2nd rounder.

Currently the only teams capable of doing the 2nd would be Freo (but they’ll end up trading picks to Richmond, who wouldn’t want to do it, or Sydney who currently have 18 & 19, and are also unlikely to want to do it).

The Brisbane pick is available, as it sits currently, its equivalent of two picks around 30.

They will sell it to whoever offers the best deal.

We have our second, maybe a second for Owies, a 3rd for Carrol possibly, how much is too much to offer?

I also think every year clubs try and trade up, they get fixated on a player and want to trade up ahead of a rival bid, so us trading down from 11 to 13-15 could get us a second rounder or thereabouts.

I see other clubs wheeling and dealing every year, I see Austin as lacking a bit of imagination in this area

 

[macky99]

Bailey smith has requested a trade from western bulldogs. We should go all in and get him talented player would offer something different to our midfield.

l am surprised we don't seem to have pursued Bailey Smith, he is the type we need, in some form we are going to have change our midfield mix, too many players without geninue quickness.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

What do people think of the suggestion in The Age article of playing Harry back to give us more intercept and rebound opportunities.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul but I've no doubt Harry would take a thousand marks across half back if allowed.

Do you then go a Curnow/Kemp forward line (or Gov) ??

 

[bigblueboy]

Bailey smith has requested a trade from western bulldogs. We should go all in and get him talented player would offer something different to our midfield.

Geelong-bound.

 

[jimsta10]

We bought high and everything crashed and we holding the bags.

McGovern/Martin

Lesser extent of Saad (Injury this year) Cerra (Injury this year)

some of these longer contract deals has really done a number on the club...

sh1tcoin season was over a while back and we cant change the past but lets learn and move.

 

[DangerousD]

Hypothetically where would he play? Half back in someones place or Ollie to half back and Campbell to a wing? Maybe even HFF?

Hypothetically if f you’re going to make a play for Campbell, you need to offer him something more than HB or HF.

I don’t see players leaving their existing club unless it’s for a significant opportunity, offering HB you HF doesn’t scream we rate you, come and play for us.

 

[CoachB]

Just with Pittonet seeing quite a few saying to trade him because he "isn't good enough". Can anyone name another back-up ruck in the comp that is better? Look at just the finals teams - I don't know if I can even name the back-up ruck for Swans, Giants, or Lions. And TDK does have a bit of an injury history so we do need someone half-decent in case.

Edit: Just looked up the GWS list and apparently Preuss (who is their 2nd ruck) is still in the AFL system - thought he retired last year for some reason.

The problem with Pitto is he doesn't see himself as a reserve ruckman and the MC feel guilty having him in the Reserves and feel obliged to play him..hence we end up going from TDK helping us overcome lack of speed due to his below knees quality and aggression to super slow and break even at best. Need to move him on and find someone who can pinch hit as required.

CB

 

[Coona Blues]

We need to address our draft and trade period like we DO NOT have
Newman
Docherty
Saad
Williams
McGovern
Martin

Like that we are a key defender short and
Like that we are a small forward short.

Then mindful that Cripps, Hewett, Fantasia and Acres will be in decline before most draftees from this year on are mature.

Also discount the mooted trades and delistings including Carroll and Owies.

So out a possible team in place and fill the gaps.

Leaving roughly

Cowan, Weitering, Young
Cincotta, Kemp, O.Hollands
Binns, Walsh, Cerra
De Koning, Kennedy, Lord
Fogarty, McKay, E.Hollands
C.Durdin, a Curnow, Moir
Bench from: Silvagni, Boyd, Cottrell, Motlop, Wilson, Pittonet, O’Keeffe, Lemmey, Monahan.

Mindful adding Ben Camporeale(inside/outside mid, half back), Matt Duffy (? but looks KPP height with great athleticism) and most likely Lucas Camporeale (outside mid, half back).

Still leaves interpretation where we are thinnest.

NB: I Heavily factor in Cody Walker will be a quality (likely Cripps replacement) addition to our mids in ‘26 draft.

 

[Coona Blues]

The problem with Pitto is he doesn't see himself as a reserve ruckman and the MC feel guilty having him in the Reserves and feel obliged to play him..hence we end up going from TDK helping us overcome lack of speed due to his below knees quality and aggression to super slow and break even at best. Need to move him on and find someone who can pinch hit as required.

CB

Not this year, but likely next if O’Keeffe and to a lesser degree Lemmey come on.

 

[Stamos]

The Brisbane pick is available, as it sits currently, its equivalent of two picks around 30.

They will sell it to whoever offers the best deal.

We have our second, maybe a second for Owies, a 3rd for Carrol possibly, how much is too much to offer?

I also think every year clubs try and trade up, they get fixated on a player and want to trade up ahead of a rival bid, so us trading down from 11 to 13-15 could get us a second rounder or thereabouts.

Going to be hard to offer more than Richmond can for Brisbane's pick.
Something might wash out though.

I see other clubs wheeling and dealing every year, I see Austin as lacking a bit of imagination in this area

Really?
22 traded a F2 for #30 to get Cowan
23 slid our first back to get a much higher 2nd so we got both our targets.

 

[Jimmae]

Couple weeks ago you were talking about Doc being able to help solve our midfield issues... now you reckon he might retire...

And why the hell would Pitto retire when he's contracted till the end of 2027??

First of all, I originally posted this list months ago, before he was announced to be so far advanced on the comeback trail.

Secondly, I'm still about Docherty playing on, but I don't know where he's at mentally and in terms of pain management after coming back from 3 ACLs and 2 bouts of cancer. It's possible he's had enough, but no one is saying that right now.

Pittonet's performances look worse and worse in terms of athletic output, though to his credit he did manage 18 games at both levels this year, which I think is a record for his time at Carlton. If he's not spent, then I would trade him, though I'm not expecting much of anything in return.

We have the option of retaining Mirkov again, and I'd probably do it, but Pittonet will get in the way of his and O'Keeffe's development next year, not to mention any young key forward we might acquire.

 

[carlton_99]

The problem with Pitto is he doesn't see himself as a reserve ruckman and the MC feel guilty having him in the Reserves and feel obliged to play him..hence we end up going from TDK helping us overcome lack of speed due to his below knees quality and aggression to super slow and break even at best. Need to move him on and find someone who can pinch hit as required.

CB

That sounds like a coaching problem not a Pittonet problem. Pittonet doesn't pick himself in the team - it's the MC that do that. There will be games where going the two rucks might be beneficial but in 2025 I think the coaches have to stick with TDK + chop out from a McKay or Young (if he plays) type for the vast majority of games

 

[WyntersGame_]

What do people think of the suggestion in The Age article of playing Harry back to give us more intercept and rebound opportunities.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul but I've no doubt Harry would take a thousand marks across half back if allowed.

Do you then go a Curnow/Kemp forward line (or Gov) ??

The shouts of crazy vossy will be loud and clear if that happens

Kemp showed something as a forward in one game, and it was against West Coast. (Some prospective needed here)

When he played with Harry in the final he just kept getting in the way. His forward patterns lead his defender straight to Harry each time which resulted in him being spoiled or outmarked

He can learn leading patterns but I'm not sold on him as a forward. I don't know if he has the forward craft which is why he got moved back in the VFL

Harry & Curnow work well together and are not our problem in the forward half.

We need a Key Back but I wouldn't be putting Harry's name up for it

 

[AB_Blue]

Positional changes id like to see

Ollie to a HBF
Walsh to a wing
Doc to Half forward
JSOS to train as a defender

Edit Cinc as a tagging forward…he applies pressure, is hard and can kick a goal

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

Gee Carlton supporters overrate our players. I am not a Voss fan or advocating we trade away players but we are blind to our player’s shortcomings. They let us down time after time but we largely continue to defend them.

This is a very interesting argument. We do have a very good list, some shortcomings sure. Lack of leg speed through the

mid-field and lack of a quality fast small forward. Our best five players are probably better, or at least the equal of any

other team. Their really is no need to panic about our list. Just identify cheap, handy players to play a couple of roles and

then draft some good kids. Out of the player's we seem to be into, the one's that excite me a little are Rosas and in

particular Sheldrick. Haynes is coming for not much, he does have coaching aspirations. So, makes sense.

We will never know, but just say Chris Scott was our coach, with his assistant's. What difference would that have made?

Players all knowing their roles better, better game plan, more adaptable. Better game day tactics and resting of tired players

through the year. Maybe we would still be alive, maybe we could have hung on to top four. Maybe even we would still make

the big dance. Who knows.

Big year for Vossy next year. Hopefully he learns from his mistakes and we do better, otherwise it could well be his last.

 

[Benaly28]

Media criticising our small forwards or lack there of spot on needs to find some quality in there.


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[CoachB]

I’m more interested in changes to coaching, fitness etc

We will bring in some needed players and young talent. I have no doubt in this

Agree, Buckley's assessment of us this season, underdone on fitness, well off the mark on fundamentals and add to that our obvious system shortfalls, you don't need much more than the obvious list changes to get back into the hunt next season.

So we have made the change on fitness / high performance (albiet overdue), problem is all assistant coaches contracted and we need some serious tactical and skill development talent, not sure where that is coming from.

 

[Sweet Seventeen]

Going after butters and Balta - I’m in. Exactly what we need. Transformational.

And, if Ken goes (say, out in straight sets again), go for Butters now, maybe Ken comes too as a mentor/advisor role

No to Ken, nice bloke but his record is not great. He would not be able to help Vossy because he has already spent eight

years under him.

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Gee Carlton supporters overrate our players. I am not a Voss fan or advocating we trade away players but we are blind to our player’s shortcomings. They let us down time after time but we largely continue to defend them.

This....blind devotion!

 

[AlecDuncan]

Media criticising our small forwards or lack there of spot on needs to find some quality in there.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

It doesn’t help when Durdin is forced to play with a bung shoulder. Was actually in good touch before the EF, well, when his arm stayed attached.

Motlop needs to take a good hard look at himself. Went backward this year. Capable of so much more and I hope that isn’t the story of his career.

Martin? Cooked. Happens to everyone eventually.

Owies: tick. I still wonder how he’d go at centre bounces just for a change-up.

Moir? Not yet, but he needs to realise it won’t just happen - he needs to work for it.

 

[gbatman]

Interesting perspective. Cerra is slow because he has not hamstring this year. We looked pretty good when Docherty was getting midfield minutes at one point.

From what I read from posters, Campo sought of fits the bill in that regards.

Honourable nugget mention Chad Warner from Sydney fits that description.

I really like the look of Ben Comporeale. Think he might be what we are after. Clean, moves well and tackles well.

Chad Warner, really big fan of his, sort of player we could really do with. Gun.

 

[branedotorg]

Untouchables:

TDK
Cripps
Weitering
Harry
Charlie

The rest can be traded/delisted/retired as far as I'm concerned. Inject some pace, decision makers and foot skills. Need to be ruthless.

only cripps for me. the others would have to be sky high prices but AFAIC everyone has a price.

 

[Blue__Balls]

First time posting since that travesty of a game...

Biggest frustration for me is that the MC went back to the well with the usual players, and those players went back to their usual habits of bombing the ball long to a static contest time after time after time. I mean, I don't know how a player needs to be coached not to dump a high ball to a one-on-one involving Corey Durdin and his bung shoulder vs literally any opposition player, but for some reason it keeps happening.

I'm not seeing coaching issues, as such. Not gameplan coaching issues anyway. But perhaps coaching issues in not holding senior players accountable for dumb football.

I don't think we would have won that game by leaving Cerra, Docherty, Motlop and Durdin out in favour of Carroll, Lord, Cincotta and Binns. We may even have gotten beaten even worse. But I'm at least confident that we would have lost while those players made mistakes born of inexperience, rather than our senior heads making mistakes born of laziness and lack of composure.

Love Doc, but honestly I think we need to treat him as depth next year. The fairytale would be great, but he is emblematic of our ongoing issues with rushed disposal and poor decision making. Durdin and Motlop should be trade bait - if there are no takers, so be it, persist another year, but if we can cash them in for picks in the 30s then we should go to the draft and find some energetic smalls who can actually get their hands on the ball. Cunners and Marchy need to go pronto. Martin the same, but at least we might get something tangible back in the process.

One of Cerra, Kennedy and Hewett should also go, purely to make room for a zippy young midfield draftee. I'm not overly fussed which, all can absolutely contribute good footy on their day, but we're massively overcommitted to playing slow midfielders with ordinary skills/decision making and as long as all these guys are on the list the MC are going to feel obligated to play them.

Happy now to move Owies on while his value is at its highest. Get a pick around 25-30 for him and take that straight to the draft.

I'm not convinced we win a flag while Cripps, Harry, Charlie and Weiters are in their "prime". I reckon we'll be thereabouts for a few years now, but that we may not peak until those guys are all 30+ and the next wave are stepping into the limelight. Means the next 2 drafts are going to be critical - select blokes with a bit of toe who can find and use the ball, then find ways to play them in suitable roles while they develop in the seniors.