Small fwds: We really missed Fogarty when he got injured, he definitely has 'Vigor and Fight'. Motlop is very young and can still be developed into a hard tackling small fwd. Owies only one who can kick goals. Dont know why we have kept Durdin and Fantasia.
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List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 š
- Thread starter Aphrodite
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charred_fate
All Australian
- Jul 10, 2021
- 699
- 2,152
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Compare that to Close, Stengle, Miers, Dempsey, Mannaghā¦ worlds apart.
Beyond Blue
Premiership Player
- Jun 25, 2021
- 3,057
- 9,798
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Or Cameron, Rayner, Lohman, Achee and MxCarthy.
Or worse stillā¦Papley, Hayward, Heeney, Parker and McInerney.
That fact we miss Fogarty who is a VFL level mid and not a forward says a lot about just how weak we are forward. His pressure is great but what he does with the ball isn't great and those moments are few and in-between. Motlop, is it fitness or is it just that he doesn't have forward craft. Put him in the midfield and he finds space and links up and looks at home, forward seems to struggle. Owies kicks goals and is more a third tall than a small, that's ok but it's smalls we lack. Durdin and Fantasia don't do enough of anything. I have no idea what Voss sees in Cottrell. E Hollands has some ability as a half forward but he's more of a midfielder.
We don't have too many small forwards who are the complete player. Fast, tackle, closing speed, kick goals, good overhead and can get involved in the contest.
Many of our small forwards are particularly weak overhead apart from Martin (gone), Owies (going?) and Moir. It's a big issue when we go forward because it's obvious where we are going to kick to. A lot of sides like Collingwood and Brisbane, the forward 6 are all fairly strong in the air and can be trusted so it spreads the defence.
Lack of closing speed and pace, you rarely see opposition defenders under real pressure.
Then there is the lack of smarts. Natural forwards play on instinct, this is how the get in space and get to where the ball is a lot of the time. Our players are failed players from other positions, they are trained but aren't instinctive. A lot of just aimless running up and back
This is why I am so impressed with Moir. He has it all. He gets to the right spots, good at ground level, good in the air, fast, chases players down and tackles. Also wins the ball in the area he is playing. He's a dead certainty to be best 22 next season.
Recruiters all around the league somewhat suck at drafting small forwards. I don't know why. Perhaps they don't fit the mould of the modern day AFL player. Clean cut, athletes.
If we can get this right and add some to our side we will bounce pretty strongly.
Recruiting genuine forwards I think you need to look at how often they make good position. Either there to tackle or get the footy. Small player who is good overhead. Fast and clean at ground level. Can also kick well for goal and hit targets. It's an unrewarding role sometimes. So while goals aren't always kicked, the player may make really good position a lot and win a bit of ball in the position they are playing. A lot of half forwards get a lot of the ball up the ground and not at half forward, that's a sign they are midfielders and not genuine forwards.
I'm not stressed about our backline. Our midfield needs to be adjusted to give our backline and forward line a chance. It's the midfield which is number 1 and the forwards line is a very close number 2.
We don't have too many small forwards who are the complete player. Fast, tackle, closing speed, kick goals, good overhead and can get involved in the contest.
Many of our small forwards are particularly weak overhead apart from Martin (gone), Owies (going?) and Moir. It's a big issue when we go forward because it's obvious where we are going to kick to. A lot of sides like Collingwood and Brisbane, the forward 6 are all fairly strong in the air and can be trusted so it spreads the defence.
Lack of closing speed and pace, you rarely see opposition defenders under real pressure.
Then there is the lack of smarts. Natural forwards play on instinct, this is how the get in space and get to where the ball is a lot of the time. Our players are failed players from other positions, they are trained but aren't instinctive. A lot of just aimless running up and back
This is why I am so impressed with Moir. He has it all. He gets to the right spots, good at ground level, good in the air, fast, chases players down and tackles. Also wins the ball in the area he is playing. He's a dead certainty to be best 22 next season.
Recruiters all around the league somewhat suck at drafting small forwards. I don't know why. Perhaps they don't fit the mould of the modern day AFL player. Clean cut, athletes.
If we can get this right and add some to our side we will bounce pretty strongly.
Recruiting genuine forwards I think you need to look at how often they make good position. Either there to tackle or get the footy. Small player who is good overhead. Fast and clean at ground level. Can also kick well for goal and hit targets. It's an unrewarding role sometimes. So while goals aren't always kicked, the player may make really good position a lot and win a bit of ball in the position they are playing. A lot of half forwards get a lot of the ball up the ground and not at half forward, that's a sign they are midfielders and not genuine forwards.
I'm not stressed about our backline. Our midfield needs to be adjusted to give our backline and forward line a chance. It's the midfield which is number 1 and the forwards line is a very close number 2.
Genuine forwards. Not failed midfielders/defenders.
Make good position, win the ball in their area, get to the right spots a lot. Tackle, are physical. good overhead. smart players.
I don't think our recruiters have ever known what they are looking for when recruiting small forwards.
It's a bit like onballers. We look for strong bodies and possession numbers. What about agility, speed of the mark, tackling and pressure numbers? I think Lord is the first midfielder we have recruited ever where we have considered pressure and tackling.
We have recruited quicker mids who get the ball and don't do the other things. That's why all the quicker mids recruited the last 10 years bar Walsh have been dumped off the list.
Regardless of the head, SOS or Austin, our recruiting department has two very clear weaknesses. Fast onballers and small forwards. Too many traits not recognised and selected for.
Teams like Sydney, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Brisbane have done this pretty well and are being rewarded for it.
Swans, Cats (apart from Cameron), Lions have generally BOG standard talls.
It's their mediums and smalls who contribute to their fair share of heavy lifting.
And it's much harder to defend against 3-4 mediumss/smalls who knows what they're doing than 1-2 KPFs.
Our medium and smalls are essentially non-existent. Opposition coaches don't need to plan against Owies, Fog, Durdin or Motlop. It's stop Charlie and Harry and the job is done.
We sorely need to address this.
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morningbrown
Club Legend
- Mar 9, 2021
- 2,109
- 4,562
- AFL Club
- Carlton
You're taking the piss right? He's about 40 kilos overweight.
BringFevBack2021
Norm Smith Medallist
- May 9, 2021
- 7,530
- 16,390
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Willie Rioli seems to go alright and heās built like a bag of milk
Just talking about a bargain pickup
We used to have it; Yarran, Garlett, Betts, Robinson, 1AW, Armfield, Waite
Bennyboy7777
Senior List
- Jan 27, 2013
- 161
- 679
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Any chance of Liam Ryan or Tim Membrey getting to Carlton?
Ryan is 27 and an electric player. The most Iād give up is a future 2nd rounder for him.
Membrey no more than 4th rounder. He could be a solid medium fwd.
Ryan is 27 and an electric player. The most Iād give up is a future 2nd rounder for him.
Membrey no more than 4th rounder. He could be a solid medium fwd.
Ryan would be a decent pick up
Membrey would force up to make decisions on how to use Kemp and Jsos
- Jul 7, 2018
- 1,699
- 5,882
- AFL Club
- Carlton
That's exactly my thoughts. It's why I would've been happy to trade Durdin and Motlop so we can draft Berry and Hannaford (we might need to find a way to upgrade our second pick to get Hannaford with his recent form). Along with the development of Moir and a full season from Williams up front, it would transform our forward line.
I know our defensive numbers were poor, particularly defending stoppages, but I feel like that's more of a coordination issue than a personnel issue. Good coaching over the off season should improve that. If we get more reward for effort from our inside 50s, we can apply more scoreboard pressure which should be enough to lift us into a top 4 finish.
InsufficientIntent
Debutant
- May 8, 2023
- 111
- 198
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Should we go hard at Joe Richards from the pies? Small forward with elite skills and decision making who does not fumble. Great tank and zippy enough. I think heās going to be a 150+ player easily for the pies if he sticks around there.
