List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[Alfonz]

If the $1.2M is correct as an annual salary then that shouldn't be our problem though. Bolton should be $800-$900K per year, which in theory we should be able to manage. Therefore there shouldn't be a large value applied to Richmond bringing the salary back to something sensible and still clearing a large net salary off their books while getting two firsts in the process (9 and 16).

I disagree there wouldn't be a large value attached to the salary cap component. We've seen 1.6 million from Bowes' contract worth pick 7. GC are idiots, yes, but there's not much else to go on for a ballpark value.

Regardless, the more draft capital we give up, the more salary cap relief we get. If you think 9+16 nets us Bolton on $800-$900k, that's fine. I don't think Richmond would be that generous. But if they are, then if we give up 9+10 we can get Bolton for even cheaper salary and I'm taking the extra money. It could be the difference between keeping a best 22 player or losing them. Our salary cap is going to be at breaking point with the amount of stars (league leading for top 100 paid players) we are trying to fit in. People are not appreciating this enough.

 

[Taylor]

Ironic that they played a limp Cox on Hulk Hogan, what were they thinking?

That Draper is beaten one on one quite a bit, particularly up the ground, probably.

I think Cox wasn't up to the challenge of breaking even against the Coleman medalist this year. Six weeks back at AFL level after an injury is right at the sweet spot for when your lack of preseason hits the fatigue outweighing your ability to recover.

I think he had a very bad game but I don't think there was another option to be picked that would have performed how we would hoped. We can't run the juniors against not just men, but the best men, one of the most athletic runners, in the league and expect to not get taken to the cleaners.

And given Hogan kicked the most goals this year, might have even been the most ever kicked for GWS in a year, there's a lot of key defenders who have been smashed by him.

We need Draper super strong and holding ground better or Alex Pearce fit and available. Suddenly our ball movement will look better, our defense will be more effective.

It's all down to denying the marks between the arcs for them and clunking them for us.

 

[Raw e Lobbster]

Interesting chat with Jack Riewoldt on GF day on Fox. Mentioned Baker went to the 2018 GF dressed in WC gear and massive Ben Cousins fan.

 

[Dockeroo]

No team wins the flag with a fully healthy B22 and no one injured or unavailable. Just rarely ever happens.
Eagles won it with Nic Nat, Sheppard and gaff all not available.
We have to find a way to get it done on prelim and GF weekend with at least 2 or 3 B22 players missing. That’s on the coaches the clubs admin, list management, development, everything.

 

[Cobbler]

Interesting chat with Jack Riewoldt on GF day on Fox. Mentioned Baker went to the 2018 GF dressed in WC gear and massive Ben Cousins fan.

It’s known he’s a WCE fanboy.
I think the only reason there’s a link to us is because they don’t have a coach, they would want to prioritise the draft, he’ll be going to a rebuilding side.

He’s near certain to go to them.

 

[Taylor]

I disagree there wouldn't be a large value attached to the salary cap component. We've seen 1.6 million from Bowes' contract worth pick 7. GC are idiots, yes, but there's not much else to go on for a ballpark value.

Regardless, the more draft capital we give up, the more salary cap relief we get. If you think 9+16 nets us Bolton on $800-$900k, that's fine. I don't think Richmond would be that generous. But if they are, then if we give up 9+10 we can get Bolton for even cheaper salary and I'm taking the extra money. It could be the difference between keeping a best 22 player or losing them. Our salary cap is going to be at breaking point with the amount of stars (league leading for top 100 paid players) we are trying to fit in. People are not appreciating this enough.

If Richmond believe they are buying excellent draft picks then paying his salary becomes part of it, if Richmond believes Fremantle is buying their player then it's bringing them to the table with the picks before we start discussing salary.

I think Richmond are very motivated sellers. Don't be surprised if we get a very good deal salary wise for what seems like a fair trade in picks already.

 

[mayne iac]

Wow this is crazy to me. When Erasmus played I genuinely felt sorry for him he was so bad.

I was so passionate about dropping Fyfe for Erasmus. Than Erasmus played and I was horrified for the kid. Certainly wasn't ready.

He's an inside bull who needs time to get used to the speed of AFL footy. Unfortunately he's far from good enough to crack our inside mid brigade ATM, and we are now hitting a window where we can't gift game time.

He's also in an unfortunate position where he has proven to be an absolute liability as sub.

did ras give your son a bath?
Your son not up to it?

 

[CapitalA]

It’s known he’s a WCE fanboy.
I think the only reason there’s a link to us is because they don’t have a coach, they would want to prioritise the draft, he’ll be going to a rebuilding side.

He’s near certain to go to them.

I actually think it is to get the highest pick possible out of the eagles and has nothing to do with the coach.

 

[Taylor]

Erasmus' contributions the last game he played were good, it was the contributions of his direct opponent and what they did that was the issue. Fyfe wouldn't have been more defensive but he might have been able to keep his opponent on the preferred side of his body at stoppage.

 

[Cobbler]

Erasmus' contributions the last game he played were good, it was the contributions of his direct opponent and what they did that was the issue. Fyfe wouldn't have been more defensive but he might have been able to keep his opponent on the preferred side of his body at stoppage.

Yep. Caldwell wasn’t it? Made him look like rolled gold.

 

[s_wd6]

No team wins the flag with a fully healthy B22 and no one injured or unavailable. Just rarely ever happens.
Eagles won it with Nic Nat, Sheppard and gaff all not available.
We have to find a way to get it done on prelim and GF weekend with at least 2 or 3 B22 players missing. That’s on the coaches the clubs admin, list management, development, everything.

Our problem wasn’t just injuries, but more so lack of mature experienced depth that was ready to replace them.

Part of it our own fault (not playing Reidy earlier) and part of it shit luck (McDonald and Cox going down long term round 1).

Sure WC had injuries in their premiership year, as did Brisbane this year, but their replacements weren’t all first year players.

Cox/Pearce out and we bring in a Cat B rookie who played reserves all of last year. Darcy/Treacy out and the replacement is either a WAFL ruck who hasn’t played a game yet or a delisted 20 year old forward who we signed in February and hadn’t played a game yet.

It’s all well and good comparing the injured players missing across the teams but it’s their replacements that make the difference.

Not to mention the fact that they’re all KPPs who take much longer to develop. We should be much better off next year if the same injuries occur because we’ve gotten games into these guys. But at the end of the day it’s pretty much fact that a more experienced list can cover injuries to their stars much better than a younger list.

 

[eastfreo75]

Ras needs another position on the ground in addition to inside mid.

Cannot stress how much this is holding him back.
Modern coaches are always talking about the value of multi positional players.

Is that coaches are lazy or try to control everything?

 

[blue shark]

No team wins the flag with a fully healthy B22 and no one injured or unavailable. Just rarely ever happens.
Eagles won it with Nic Nat, Sheppard and gaff all not available.
We have to find a way to get it done on prelim and GF weekend with at least 2 or 3 B22 players missing. That’s on the coaches the clubs admin, list management, development, everything.

Best thing WC did was getting Mitchell.
We are lacking that ruthless attack on
the ball or player.
Targeting oppositions best.
Wouldn’t hurt

Our problem wasn’t just injuries, but more so lack of mature experienced depth that was ready to replace them.

Part of it our own fault (not playing Reidy earlier) and part of it shit luck (McDonald and Cox going down long term round 1).

Sure WC had injuries in their premiership year, as did Brisbane this year, but their replacements weren’t all first year players.

Cox/Pearce out and we bring in a Cat B rookie who played reserves all of last year. Darcy/Treacy out and the replacement is either a WAFL ruck who hasn’t played a game yet or a delisted 20 year old forward who we signed in February and hadn’t played a game yet.

It’s all well and good comparing the injured players missing across the teams but it’s their replacements that make the difference.

Bringing Pearce back early was pivotal.
Absolute stupidity.
Not playing Reidy and instead going with Tabs or Jackson ruck.
Reidy is how old?
You talk about experience but where is that off the field?
Then that experience you are talking about we let go, Acres, Lobb, Hogan, Meek.

 

[Sherriff Incorporated]

I actually think the thing that Erasmus improved a shit tonne this year was his decision making


Previous years some of his decisions were baffling (in traffic, in space, on a mark/set play)


Really positive signs if he keeps improving his footy smarts

I agree his footy smarts need improving. One thing about Erasmus that I think some forget is that he was an elite cricketer who only dedicated himself solely to afl in Year 11 at school. He was also in the draft group greatly effected by Covid. I think his footy smarts improved a ton in 2024 but obviously tts an area he needs to improve still.

 

[s_wd6]

Best thing WC did was getting Mitchell.
We are lacking that ruthless attack on
the ball or player.
Targeting oppositions best.
Wouldn’t hurt

Bringing Pearce back early was pivotal.
Absolute stupidity.
Not playing Reidy and instead going with Tabs or Jackson ruck.
Reidy is how old?
You talk about experience but where is that off the field?
Then that experience you are talking about we let go, Acres, Lobb, Hogan, Meek.

Bringing back Pearce early did **** all. The only other option was waiting until it healed naturally where he would’ve missed the entire h&a season anyway. The break was in a completely different spot. There was no re injuring of the initial breaks. How many times do you have to be told that to stop parroting the same shit.

Everyone’s a ****ing hindsight hero aren’t they? Bring back Hogan from 4 years ago that solves our injury problems. Move Lobb’s girlfriend back to Perth? Convince Meek to stay playing WAFL as a break glass in case of emergency behind a guy who had just played 3 full seasons of football?

Why are we going back analysing every list decision instead of acknowledging that not all injuries are the same and older list demographics are much more capable of covering for players being out.

The club isn’t going to magically become better just because you fail to acknowledge the circumstances of our season as explanations for our performance.

 

[CapitalA]

Bringing back Pearce early did **** all. The only other option was waiting until it healed naturally where he would’ve missed the entire h&a season anyway. The break was in a completely different spot. There was no re injuring of the initial breaks. How many times do you have to be told that to stop parroting the same shit.

I think this is correct, even if we gave Pearce another 2 weeks his arm would have still been compromised. It reminded me of the Fyfe broken leg, we put a plate in and brought him back asap the next season. He broke his leg again because the plate was too rigid and created a leverage point. I believe the same thing happened to Pearce, the only way he comes back 100% is after he has the 2nd operation to remove the plate in his arm.

 

[blue shark]

I think this is correct, even if we gave Pearce another 2 weeks his arm would have still been compromised. It reminded me of the Fyfe broken leg, we put a plate in and brought him back asap the next season. He broke his leg again because the plate was too rigid and created a leverage point. I believe the same thing happened to Pearce, the only way he comes back 100% is after he has the 2nd operation to remove the plate in his arm.

He broke his arm in June.
They bought him back 4 weeks later.

 

[s_wd6]

He broke his arm in June.
They bought him back 4 weeks later.

And you know what? 4 weeks later and the initial break remained undamaged. Could’ve waited 8 weeks later with the plate still in the arm and he was still at risk of breaking a different part of his arm where the plate anchored. Which is exactly what happened.

It’s not black and white wait longer and he’ll be better unless you don’t ever put the plate in in the first place.

 

[Wee Jessies]

I disagree there wouldn't be a large value attached to the salary cap component. We've seen 1.6 million from Bowes' contract worth pick 7. GC are idiots, yes, but there's not much else to go on for a ballpark value.

Regardless, the more draft capital we give up, the more salary cap relief we get. If you think 9+16 nets us Bolton on $800-$900k, that's fine. I don't think Richmond would be that generous. But if they are, then if we give up 9+10 we can get Bolton for even cheaper salary and I'm taking the extra money. It could be the difference between keeping a best 22 player or losing them. Our salary cap is going to be at breaking point with the amount of stars (league leading for top 100 paid players) we are trying to fit in. People are not appreciating this enough.

Your point is that GC paid pick 7 to get off an inflated contract. That means we should be paid to take on said contract not the other way around.

The only way pick 10 makes sense is if you see paying Bolton net $7-800k a year is a significant discount on his market value. I think it is a small discount hence pick 16 but if you feel it is a big discount then it is 10.

 

[Heave Ho Bro]

Interesting chat with Jack Riewoldt on GF day on Fox. Mentioned Baker went to the 2018 GF dressed in WC gear and massive Ben Cousins fan.

I still find this bizarre. I understand everyone has a club they love growing up but once you are actually in the league you need to embrace the 'professional' in professional athlete and leave that behind. Anyway here's hoping WC give up pick 13 for a 170cm 26 year old who won't be around when they are actually good again.

 

[Ge3ks]

And you know what? 4 weeks later and the initial break remained undamaged. Could’ve waited 8 weeks later with the plate still in the arm and he was still at risk of breaking a different part of his arm where the plate anchored. Which is exactly what happened.

Noob question. How does this metal plate stuff work. Do they remove it once the bone has healed or does it remain in there forever?

 

[FreoRicci]

I still find this bizarre. I understand everyone has a club they love growing up but once you are actually in the league you need to embrace the 'professional' in professional athlete and leave that behind. Anyway here's hoping WC give up pick 13 for a 170cm 26 year old who won't be around when they are actually good again.

Good. He’s not worth a first rounder. Let them over pay

 

[s_wd6]

Noob question. How does this metal plate stuff work. Do they remove it once the bone has healed or does it remain in there forever?

Case by case thing.

 

[Ge3ks]

Case by case thing.

In the case of Alex Pearce, will it be removed once his bone heals? Because it sounds like the metal plate actually weakens his arm.

 

[Joao]

Seeing how many of the players in the futures game are tied to clubs, I think I understand why everyone wants to trade into this year (depth of talent aside). Could see 7 of the top 10 going via academy or f/s.