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List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets
- Thread starter go_the_dockers
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Just waiting for Jon Ralph to open his mouth on Footy Classified
I may be missing a little but I'm surprised how highly everyone is rating Baker given what he produces on field and offers a side. The main point for anyone assessing Baker highly are his B&F finishes without putting into context why he finished highly.
Baker is a solid role player who allows his teammates to do things that he can't. He played a good defensive foil to the Dusty's, Cotchin's, Prestia's, Taranto's and Hopper's. He wasn't someone who could hunt the ball or use the ball particularly well with the best fit for describing Baker as a 'neat kick' and safe disposer of the ball. He never attracted large numbers of the ball (he's hovered between 19-20 touches a game for the past 4 years) and only half of those touches would be kicks. His high position in club B&F counts is due to the role he played and not necessarily his impact on games or abilities to play football. He's a hard worker who has limited capabilities in size, speed and ability.
Even this season where he has been tasked with a more prominent position in the midfield, he hasn't made any use of it and had very little if any impact on most games. He's done nothing to prove he's worth much at the trade table or that he's better than anyone in our bottom 6. I'd say it's line ball at best and I'd prefer to back in our existing younger players to be role players if required at no further cost to us. They could improve well beyond Baker but I would expect them to perform on a similar level as a baseline. We'd be much better off retaining any draft capital or salary cap space on other trades or the draft.
Baker is a solid role player who allows his teammates to do things that he can't. He played a good defensive foil to the Dusty's, Cotchin's, Prestia's, Taranto's and Hopper's. He wasn't someone who could hunt the ball or use the ball particularly well with the best fit for describing Baker as a 'neat kick' and safe disposer of the ball. He never attracted large numbers of the ball (he's hovered between 19-20 touches a game for the past 4 years) and only half of those touches would be kicks. His high position in club B&F counts is due to the role he played and not necessarily his impact on games or abilities to play football. He's a hard worker who has limited capabilities in size, speed and ability.
Even this season where he has been tasked with a more prominent position in the midfield, he hasn't made any use of it and had very little if any impact on most games. He's done nothing to prove he's worth much at the trade table or that he's better than anyone in our bottom 6. I'd say it's line ball at best and I'd prefer to back in our existing younger players to be role players if required at no further cost to us. They could improve well beyond Baker but I would expect them to perform on a similar level as a baseline. We'd be much better off retaining any draft capital or salary cap space on other trades or the draft.
Well it's nice to see some love for Baker here.
Most of the Richmond board seem laser focused on giving away 3 of our best players for magic beans (picks). And they're not too fussed on which ones.
Baker and Bolton in particular are being massively underrated on the Tigers board.
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Pretty much everyone on here that I've seen rates Baker for his role at Richmond. We just disagree on who he would replace at Freo and more importantly, whether the cost in picks/salary would make it worth it for us.
I read someone comparing him to Switta. Good comparison.
Sure, he's had a bit of a down year in 24, but surrounded by good players he will shine. I'm sure Freo would find a role for him.
If he stays at Richmond, he will be odds on to become our next captain. That says a lot.
Liam Duggan is a captain…
Heave Ho Bro
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What are Baker and Bolton actually worth in trades. Like actual fair and realistic value.
Baker? St Kilda second.
Bolton? 7 and a future second maybe.
Bolton? 7 and a future second maybe.
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Future picks still only one year in advance this year.
Two years into the future to start next year.
NGA and father son bidding changes next year, with NGA access from pick 1 as of this year.
Two years into the future to start next year.
NGA and father son bidding changes next year, with NGA access from pick 1 as of this year.
B&F can be misleading. It can have a heavy weighting to simply doing your role (even if you are a lesser player) and also playing lots of games. These are positive traits for sure and would be welcome at Freo for the right price. But we've had guys like Langdon, Switta, Schultz and Hughes dish up similar sorts of finishes in the B&F due to the same reasons.
Take his 2021. His best finish when Richmond had an injury crisis and missed the finals. He wasn't the 2nd best player at Richmond. Nor was Graham (who tied with him). Players like Bolton, Martin, Riewoldt, Lynch, Cotchin, Prestia, Lambert, Edwards, Astbury, Vlastuin, Houli, Nankervis, etc finished below Baker. They are/were all much better players than him.
Fair point, but these guys aren't in your next premiership side. And when you're rebuilding you need the draft picks.
Go into a draft with picks 1, 7, 13 and 19 and you can find the core of your next flag.
Can I interest you in some magic beans?
Don't rate Baker.
Rate Bolton, not just as a player but he's exactly the sort of player we need. Given that I'm happy to pay slightly overs, which is 2 first rounders. So picks 7 and 15 or so. And that's if we pay all his contract, which is rumored to be $1m a year or thereabouts.
Still shows that he can get on the park and contribute.
Anyway, I rate him. Think he makes us better. We’d find a role for him. He doesn’t necessarily need to play someone else’s role better.
They gave no detail on the NGA access though…all they said was “the system has changed” so I have no idea what it will cost
Heave Ho Bro
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Most supporters overrate their own and underrate opposition players. Has to be a happy medium. In your opinion what would you want for the 2 of them.
Sure you can…but Baker is in no way better than Brad Hill, who cost us 24.
And Bolton is not within a bull’s roar of Lachie Neale and that trade reflects that
I would probably lean towards this. I think the thing some are missing in this trade deal is trying to meet Richmond's demands which are not our priority or based on Bolton's actual value.
From Freo's perspective, they do not have to trade at all for Bolton. They are offering an option with legitimate currency to Richmond for a player who wants to go home for pretty solid reasons. It's not a poach and from most reports, driven by the player.
Richmond can hold the player to their contract and Freo won't have a problem with that, they can walk away. However, what benefit do Richmond get in that scenario? They retain an unhappy player and family who does not assist them on their rebuild and takes up a huge portion of their salary cap. They also don't gain any valuable draft capital to assist with their rebuild and will likely go through the same scenario the following year with the player wanting out.
Bolton is a good player and would improve Fremantle but he's not a sell the farm player like Warner is. He's also not worth sacrificing the Warner trade for in both draft capital and salary cap space. If a deal does eventuate here, it has to be reasonable for Freo as well as Richmond and trading 2 first round picks is too much for mine without more coming back. If Port's pick ends up further out then maybe that and our first rounder but I can't see how he'd be worth more with where our squad is at and how we use our resources (salary cap, draft picks etc).
Heave Ho Bro
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Hard to argue with this. From the sounds of it Bolton and Baker are reliant on being surrounded by better players to excel. Not needle movers like a Neale.
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Look what happened to Freo when we delisted half the squad.
10 years in pergatory.
Eagles did much the same.
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Tigers are going to want all of our picks for Baker and Bolton. They will need to throw in some picks to come the other way, but in an even draft, I trust our Talent ID team to get some hits.
It's not unfeasible that we may trade in Baker, Bolton and Warner over the next two years. We also have some decent NGAs coming through, so we'll still have young talent coming through the door.
That being said, Baker, Bolton and Warner won't be cheap. Our accountants in the Cayman Islands have some work to do.
It's not unfeasible that we may trade in Baker, Bolton and Warner over the next two years. We also have some decent NGAs coming through, so we'll still have young talent coming through the door.
That being said, Baker, Bolton and Warner won't be cheap. Our accountants in the Cayman Islands have some work to do.
I’d also argue that with each week, the need for Baker is decreasing.
I’m happy for Bolton with 7 and 16, after all it’s effectively Schultz and two seconds, but I want that middle pick…
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