List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets

[Philth]

Most supporters overrate their own and underrate opposition players. Has to be a happy medium. In your opinion what would you want for the 2 of them.

This has been put forward on our board -

Club looking to package Baker and Bolton to Freo for all 3 of their first rounds.

Out: Baker, Bolton.

In: 7, 12, 16.


I initially baulked at this, but perhaps it's fair.

 

[Lach72]

Tigers are going to want all of our picks for Baker and Bolton. They will need to throw in some picks to come the other way, but in an even draft, I trust our Talent ID team to get some hits.

It's not unfeasible that we may trade in Baker, Bolton and Warner over the next two years. We also have some decent NGAs coming through, so we'll still have young talent coming through the door.

That being said, Baker, Bolton and Warner won't be cheap. Our accountants in the Cayman Islands have some work to do.

The NGA’s still need to be paid for in picks, but if we pulled Bolton and Warner I’d be comfortable with what ever picks we gave up and maneuvered to make the NGA’s happen. Those two give us all sorts of flexibility

 

[theGav56]

I must laugh at any suggestions Baker isn’t an upgrade on nearly all of our front half smalls.

Banfield, Switta, Frederick, Sturt, Walters, Emmett

Come on guys. He’s ahead of all of these.

Depending on how we view him he would be an upgrade on some backs like: Walker, Wagner and Aish.

I get people want to see some of our other youngsters break into the side, but Simpson, Erasmus etc are clearly behind.

Bolton and Baker make us better. One of them makes us better.

Agree with all that it’s about the cost, opportunity cost etc.

But if they chose Freo and if get the trade done. We’re a better side, create greater depth etc.

He's a better medium tall than Banfield and Sturt......?

I'm not seeing it

 

[Philth]

Hard to argue with this. From the sounds of it Bolton and Baker are reliant on being surrounded by better players to excel. Not needle movers like a Neale.

They are not in the same league as Neale, but don't be fooled by recent form.

Both are great players.

 

[Lach72]

This has been put forward on our board -

Club looking to package Baker and Bolton to Freo for all 3 of their first rounds.

Out: Baker, Bolton.

In: 7, 12, 16.


I initially baulked at this, but perhaps it's fair.

Gross.

 

[Heave Ho Bro]

This has been put forward on our board -

Club looking to package Baker and Bolton to Freo for all 3 of their first rounds.

Out: Baker, Bolton.

In: 7, 12, 16.


I initially baulked at this, but perhaps it's fair.

Hard to wrap my head around Bolton being worth more than Lachie Neale. Thinking more 7, 16 and the Saints 2nd.

 

[Philth]

Gross.

I hope the Freo brains trust think like you do, because I want them to stay.

 

[Lach72]

They are not in the same league as Neale, but don't be fooled by recent form.

Both are great players.

“The Lions traded pick six - previously secured from Port Adelaide in a pick swap - as well as pick 19 to get him.

Brisbane also upgraded their pick 55 to pick 30.”

Not in the same League as Neale…your words…

So 7 and 16 is unacceptable for a player who is not in the same league as Lachie Neale, who Brisbane gave up 6 and 19 but also got Neale and an upgrade of a third to a second round…

Cmon Man Joe Biden.jpeg

 

[Philth]

Hard to wrap my head around Bolton being worth more than Lachie Neale. Thinking more 7, 16 and the Saints 2nd.

You got pick 6 for Neale hey?

 

[ilikepotatoes]

They gave no detail on the NGA access though…all they said was “the system has changed” so I have no idea what it will cost

10% discount instead of 20%

And points now spread across picks 1-54 instead of 1-73

 

[stobes]

I know the Tigers (and certain VIC media) are very excited because we have a good draft hand, but this doesnt mean Freo should just be handing picks out willy nilly!

Warner still needs to be the priority, and easily demands a higher price than Bolton. Maybe the Pies OR Port pick plus Freo pick.

If Warner isn't available, for Bolton he is worth the Pies OR Port pick only. Maybe a F2 to assist with the deal.

Baker is a good role player, so Saints second rounder would be it.

Fair value I believe, especially as the draft has some cracking kids we can add to our list that I would back to develop strongly in our system.

 

[doppo]

The point I and others on the Tigers board have been making, is that we don't want to completely bottom out.

We need experienced leaders to guide the youngsters.

Look what happened to North. No thanks.

Losing all of Bolton, Baker and Rioli would be a disaster.

That fair enough - it almost seems it would best for everyone if Baker stayed. A bit of leadership and experience, and then you guys can bank in on Bolton and Rioli now and absolutely raid the draft. The problem is he’s the one out of contract and already has one foot out the door from all reports

 

[Lach72]

Hard to wrap my head around Bolton being worth more than Lachie Neale. Thinking more 7, 16 and the Saints 2nd.

He’s not.

Lachie cost less than 6 and 19 because they got 55 upgraded to 30 as well

 

[Heave Ho Bro]

You got pick 6 for Neale hey?

6 and 19

 

[Philth]

“The Lions traded pick six - previously secured from Port Adelaide in a pick swap - as well as pick 19 to get him.

Brisbane also upgraded their pick 55 to pick 30.”

Not in the same League as Neale…your words…

So 7 and 16 is unacceptable for play who is not in the same league as Lachie Neale, who Brisbane gave up 16 and 19 but also got Neale and an upgrade of a third to a second round…

Cmon Man Joe Biden.jpeg

I said they. Two players.

Baker is being underrated here.

 

[Lach72]

You got pick 6 for Neale hey?

Yes? And also 19, but gave back 30 for 55.

Lachie Neale, a far superior player to Bolton, and pick 30 for Picks 6, 19 and 55.

Now tell me why your valuation doesn’t suck balls.

 

[Lach72]

I said they. Two players.

Baker is being underrated here.

No…he’s not.

 

[Wallsy78]

I may be missing a little but I'm surprised how highly everyone is rating Baker given what he produces on field and offers a side. The main point for anyone assessing Baker highly are his B&F finishes without putting into context why he finished highly.

Baker is a solid role player who allows his teammates to do things that he can't. He played a good defensive foil to the Dusty's, Cotchin's, Prestia's, Taranto's and Hopper's. He wasn't someone who could hunt the ball or use the ball particularly well with the best fit for describing Baker as a 'neat kick' and safe disposer of the ball. He never attracted large numbers of the ball (he's hovered between 19-20 touches a game for the past 4 years) and only half of those touches would be kicks. His high position in club B&F counts is due to the role he played and not necessarily his impact on games or abilities to play football. He's a hard worker who has limited capabilities in size, speed and ability.

Even this season where he has been tasked with a more prominent position in the midfield, he hasn't made any use of it and had very little if any impact on most games. He's done nothing to prove he's worth much at the trade table or that he's better than anyone in our bottom 6. I'd say it's line ball at best and I'd prefer to back in our existing younger players to be role players if required at no further cost to us. They could improve well beyond Baker but I would expect them to perform on a similar level as a baseline. We'd be much better off retaining any draft capital or salary cap space on other trades or the draft.

How highly everyone is rating Baker? 90% of people on here seem to think he is not that good which is the most surprising thing.

These are his CBA attendances over his 4 top 6 B&F years for Tigers.
2020 - 2 total (<1%)
2021 - 54 total (9%)
2022 - 49 Total (7%)
2023 - 27 Total (4%)

and for this year 167 total (38%)

He never played a defensive foil midfideld role. His two premiership years he played as a rebounding half back and a small defender. In more recent years he has played more HFF. Averaging 19-20 disposals in the roles he has played is very good. He hasn't played well when he played inside mid this year that is fair, but it's never been his role.

Saying his high B&F finishes are because of the role he plays and not his impact on games is just way off the mark. It's definitely true that he is a role player and hes not a topline gun, but he had a massive impact on tigers' games during his flags. He would look much better in our team than the current 2 win tigers. To win flags you need guys that win 1-on-1 contests all over the ground

Obviously there is an opportunity cost you have to weigh up and we have other players we need to prioritize first. I would't want him if it costs us Warner etc. But he is a better player than what the consensus opinion is on here

 

[Heave Ho Bro]

How highly everyone is rating Baker? 90% of people on here seem to think he is not that good which is the most surprising thing.

These are his CBA attendances over his 4 top 6 B&F years for Tigers.
2020 - 2 total (<1%)
2021 - 54 total (9%)
2022 - 49 Total (7%)
2023 - 27 Total (4%)

and for this year 167 total (38%)

He never played a defensive foil midfideld role. His two premiership years he played as a rebounding half back and a small defender. In more recent years he has played more HFF. Averaging 19-20 disposals in the roles he has played is very good. He hasn't played well when he played inside mid this year that is fair, but it's never been his role.

Saying his high B&F finishes are because of the role he plays and not his impact on games is just way off the mark. It's definitely true that he is a role player and hes not a topline gun, but he had a massive impact on tigers' games during his flags. He would look much better in our team than the current 2 win tigers. To win flags you need guys that win 1-on-1 contests all over the ground

Obviously there is an opportunity cost you have to weigh up and we have other players we need to prioritize first. I would't want him if it costs us Warner etc. But he is a better player than what the consensus opinion is on here

Not saying he isn't good. But if you were to flip it around and he played for us currently and was out of contract would everyone be saying he's worth a first rounder? Or is it just the 'Dockers tax' at play.

 

[Philth]

No…he’s not.

OK, we agree to disagree.

I'm outta here, thanks for the discussion. I'm very interested to see what comes out of all this.

And go Flagmantle - you can do it.

 

[Lach72]

How highly everyone is rating Baker? 90% of people on here seem to think he is not that good which is the most surprising thing.

These are his CBA attendances over his 4 top 6 B&F years for Tigers.
2020 - 2 total (<1%)
2021 - 54 total (9%)
2022 - 49 Total (7%)
2023 - 27 Total (4%)

and for this year 167 total (38%)

He never played a defensive foil midfideld role. His two premiership years he played as a rebounding half back and a small defender. In more recent years he has played more HFF. Averaging 19-20 disposals in the roles he has played is very good. He hasn't played well when he played inside mid this year that is fair, but it's never been his role.

Saying his high B&F finishes are because of the role he plays and not his impact on games is just way off the mark. It's definitely true that he is a role player and hes not a topline gun, but he had a massive impact on tigers' games during his flags. He would look much better in our team than the current 2 win tigers. To win flags you need guys that win 1-on-1 contests all over the ground

Obviously there is an opportunity cost you have to weigh up and we have other players we need to prioritize first. I would't want him if it costs us Warner etc. But he is a better player than what the consensus opinion is on here

Look I don’t mind Baker, but I’m not banging out first round draft picks for players who don’t offer point of difference or need.

Bolton, I’ll cop it. Warner? Sign me up.

I mean we paid pick 24 for a triple premiership elite winger. Young? tick. Position of need? Tick. Elite in his position? Yes. Pick 24.

Don’t see where Baker offers so much a point of difference to be offering more than Brad Hill who cost 24…we’re not a charity, here just to help Richmond rebuild.

Just because we have picks we don’t need to spray them around Willy nilly

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Look what happened to Freo when we delisted half the squad.
10 years in pergatory.
Eagles did much the same.

Yes, but we did it the right way and now look at us. It's the clearest and best way to rebuild if you don't have points players giving you elite talent when you're not meant to.

 

[Taylor]

#7 and future first for Bolton and F2.

#12, #16 on the table for Warner this year.

Actually, put the first offer on the table for whichever of Sydney or Richmond want to deal first, second mouse to the cheese gets second offer.

 

[wakojako]

This has been put forward on our board -

Out: Baker, Bolton.

In: 7, 12, 16.


I initially baulked at this, but perhaps it's fair.

Sir, in case you haven't noticed we are #chadlocked and will not be doing that trade.

 

[theGav56]

I understand it’s about cost and opportunity cost.

But

In an old school, school yard picking for teams who are you picking first out of:

Baker, Banfield, Emmett, Walters, Sturt, Frederick, Switta, Aish, Wagner, Walker, Erasmus, Brodie, Simpson?

If Baker isn’t in the top 3 then I don’t know football.
?

You pick the best ball winner. That's probably Brodie.

Then you probably pick the tallest forward. Sturt?

After them you have a bunch of guys fairly close in terms of their skills and on the value scale, and Baker may be at the front