List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[Bender571]

Yes people mistakenly think the average salary is paid to the mid ranking player at each club.

If there’s 44 players on a list, the 22nd best player is not earning the average salary. It would be more accurate to quote median salaries but they never do that.
The 22nd highest paid player at freo is earning a lot less than $440k. The salaries are non-normally distributed. I would guess the average salary is paid to approx the 13th or 14th highest paid player on the list.

The AFL muddy the waters when they say the average player in 2023 made $441k because they're only talking about the 660 primary listed players. 660 players across 18 clubs is 36.6 players made an average of $441k, not 44.

In 2023 a typical AFL club would roughly have;
23 players earn more than $300k or
18 players earn more than $400k or
13 players earn more than $500k or
9 players earn more than $600k or
6 players earn more than $700k or
4 players earn more than $800k or
2 players earn more than $900k or
1 player earn more than $1 million or

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

I think we play Chapman too tall and too tight as a defender. We need to free him up so he can use his excellent footy brain and kick more. I hope they change his role this off season

The "problem" is that he's almost too good a defender for his own good. Like Hayden Young was never really a lockdown guy so freeing him up and eventually moving him up was an easy choice. Conversely, Chapman is someone who has shut down some of the best fwds this season (Fritsch and Cameron in particular he did great jobs on). Genuinely if you have a tall-ish, quick fwd and Alex Pearce isn't available, Chapman is probably the best matchup on them. Maybe next season that becomes Draper.

I wouldn't mind seeing him higher up the ground, especially if Draper can be that 3rd defender and rebound off half back in that role. But I still like Chapman playing in defence in some fashion.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Hasn't nominated.

Waiting to see what picks we have left after Bolton, Warner and Kossie I guess Deathly?

Deathly:

 

[DragoDelph]

Deathly:
View attachment 2105767

Hasn't nominated yet.

Club or state.

 

[FreoRicci]

Starcevich is a free agent next year. Would be a great get for us.

Bobby Hill won a Norm Smith playing on him.

 

[Bicco]

probably Martin

I watched 15mins of his 'highlights ' on the weekend. One of which was him getting a handball recieve at the top of the goal square and kicking the goal.
He only seems a mild improvement on Freddy? But always injured. Maybe he's better in open play or 1v1 or something but I haven't seen enough of him live (has anyone?) To know if he's even worth a punt. His career stats are extraordinarily under whelming. Does anyone know what he does well?

 

[Docker82]

It would have to be AFL contrived for it to run through to the last 24 hours. We would want to do other business and need to know where the Bolton deal lands.

I would be very surprised if the clubs haven't already set the price.

I might not remember correctly but from memory in 2018 the Neale trade, Hogan trade, Lobb trade and a pick swap between us and North Melbourne we're all lodged within two hours of each other.

There's usually one or two earlier trades per day but the above is generally closer to the norm in terms of how it goes down.

 

[mike91]

Just gonna leave this here

 

[Docker82]

Part time. There is only so many midfield minutes to go around between Young, Warner, Bolton, Brayshaw, Serong and whoever plays the supporting role (Ras or Johnson). They all need 2nd spots bar maybe Serong

Is Zorko actually that much better than Jordan Clark at rebounding the ball from defensive 50? I don't know whether he is.

Would rather use the draft for another HBF tbh. I see it more as a medium term need.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Is Zorko actually that much better than Jordan Clark at rebounding the ball from defensive 50? I don't know whether he is.

Would rather use the draft for another HBF tbh. I see it more as a medium term need.

If you lock down on Clark we can struggle to rebound the ball well.

Clark is very quick, and great at breaking the lines but not sure he is brilliant and dissecting a zone and pin pointing a pass.

It would be very nice, if we had a 2nd player who can help us get the ball out of our back 50. Ideally, with the ability to play a bit of midfield time.

 

[DragoDelph]

Riley Garcia has played quite well off the Half Back flank the last few weeks

(assuming the VFL stats of his starting position are accurate)

 

[freodog]

Who was that guy who told us Bailey Smith was a docker

Anyway really hope he ends up at Geelong over Hawks.

Definitely going to Geelong. Has been sponsored by Cotton on for years

 

[Docker82]

If you lock down on Clark we can struggle to rebound the ball well.

Clark is very quick, and great at breaking the lines but not sure he is brilliant and dissecting a zone and pin pointing a pass.

It would be very nice, if we had a 2nd player who can help us get the ball out of our back 50. Ideally, with the ability to play a bit of midfield time.

As I said I think this is something we draft for. Can’t trade for everything- the salary and lack of assets makes sure of that. More than happy with the prospect of who we might be bringing in this year or next.

If we trade too many picks then hopefully one of those Irish kids comes in and does good. There is signs the club sees it as an area of improvement- we had a crack at Cumming from GWS as well.

 

[theGav56]

Getting the deal done early will free up the slate for any further sneaky-blockbusters from behind the Wall too.

I don't know if we need a trade for this, but having watched the Brisvegas replay yesterday, Zorko's ability to dissect his way out of half-back was really striking. With Young's move mid-forward going gangbusters, finding that polished distrubutor off the half-back is something we should be seriously considering. I don't think we currently have any obvious candidates with a combo of top-shelf game-IQ and precision kicking that can neatly slot in there next year.

We should introduce Simpson via defence. He may not provide what you are looking for here, but he seems to have some of those qualities.

 

[arsesmart]

In the scenario we get Bolton and Warner, Young going back to the back part time in the future solves the issue. I think...

Given I'm 100% on seeing Young getting more time in mid/fwd and just see how far he can go taking it to the next level... so would strongly prefer a different option there.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Given I'm 100% on seeing Young getting more time in mid/fwd and just see how far he can go taking it to the next level... so would strongly prefer a different option there.

I understand but that's in a team without Bolton and Chad, two very attacking players. Not sure there is room and Young is the only who can play back

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Sydney might be more open to trading Chad this year. They have depth at his position, and we have the picks. It would be better to move this year if you were Sydney.I suspect the Eagles know this and are also going to have a crack.

 

[Taylor]

Who are our best kicks in the team? AFL Stats (KE%) says:
Worner
Ryan
Pearce
Cox
Hughes
Draper
Clark
Wagner
Chapman
Davies
Walker
Sharp
Aish
Treacy
Erasmus
Johnson
O'Meara
Jackson
Emmett
Sturt
O'Driscoll
Frederick
Simpson
Walters
Darcy
Amiss
Young
Switkowski
Banfield
Taberner
Brayshaw
Fyfe
Voss
Serong
McDonald
Reidy

In that order, best to worst. Exclude all the defenders and long kicking wings.... aaaaand Josh Treacy is your new half back

 

[arsesmart]

We should introduce Simpson via defence. He may not provide what you are looking for here, but he seems to have some of those qualities.

Not saying he couldn't, but would be looking for someone to really have an exponential benefit to our def-fwd transitions... almost straight away.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Not saying he couldn't, but would be looking for someone to really have an exponential benefit to our def-fwd transitions... almost straight away.

Who was the poster on here that spent ages complaining about how many skinny half back flankers we drafted year on year? You'd think we should have half a dozen of these types waiting in the wings.

 

[Dockeroo]

Who are our best kicks in the team? AFL Stats (KE%) says:
Worner
Ryan
Pearce
Cox
Hughes
Draper
Clark
Wagner
Chapman
Davies
Walker
Sharp
Aish
Treacy
Erasmus
Johnson
O'Meara
Jackson
Emmett
Sturt
O'Driscoll
Frederick
Simpson
Walters
Darcy
Amiss
Young
Switkowski
Banfield
Taberner
Brayshaw
Fyfe
Voss
Serong
McDonald
Reidy

In that order, best to worst. Exclude all the defenders and long kicking wings.... aaaaand Josh Treacy is your new half back

Some good level trolling here putting a list up that says Worner Pearce and Hughes are in our top 5 kicks at the club

 

[wakojako]

I understand but that's in a team without Bolton and Chad, two very attacking players. Not sure there is room and Young is the only who can play back

Just make Bolton full time small forward. Young's current trajectory is Bont, no one would or should fk with his progression.

 

[Polo342]

I understand but that's in a team without Bolton and Chad, two very attacking players. Not sure there is room and Young is the only who can play back

Hard to move Young out of the midfield when he became the best inside 50 kick in the comp :s

 

[Docker82]

Some good level trolling here putting a list up that says Worner Pearce and Hughes are in our top 5 kicks at the club

Eleven of top twelve are defenders!

It's what I keep saying. The stat useless it showing who's a good kick and who isn't without context.

Defenders will always score higher in this stat due to it rewarding kicks over 40m not directly intercepted as effective and not taking into account the difficulty of the disposal.

Inside mids in comparison usually do sh** because they do so many kicks under pressure. For an inside mid 70% is elite but if you're a defender putting up that stat it probably means you're a candidate to get delisted. It's apples and oranges.

 

[ignoramus]

I’m at least 48 hours and 10 pages late to this latest round of debate over salaries, etc., but could someone please do a tired, old mind a favour by answering a few questions for me?

Do we have any reliable information on:

*whether match payments count towards the salary cap, or are rather payments over and above?
*whether match payments are a defined amount, and the same for all players?

The piece from The Age linked to earlier suggests a defined amount and from the cap. That means that the available amount for distribution is actually less than the cap (I.e. 23 rounds x 23 players x $5000 = $2.645mill less). Anyone able to access anything official that supports or refutes this notion?

This is part of the reason why I am unable to put any faith in the “reported” salaries of any player. How does the player/manager, let alone the reporter, know whether the player is going to play all 23 games? Sure, they’re probably reporting to the top figure, but then that surely applies also to any bonuses/incentives that are also built into the contract. So Darcy (e.g.) is almost never getting paid his $750k pa because he is not in every year playing every game and getting AA / top 5 Doig / whatever high performance benchmark you want to set.

The numbers being bandied about in the press / online are pure fiction, if only because they can’t ALL be true, given that only 23 players per team play each round, there are only 10 players in the top 10 Brownlow, only 22 players in the AA squad, etc., etc.

TL;DR you can't just add up the reported salaries to work out if we have cap space.

I got a whole other thought about contracts / renewals and salary cap management, but I’ve already avoided work for too long.