List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[Vintage]

These rankings are league wide.

2024:
Baker and Bolton considered forwards
14th and 16th ranked score involvement non tall forward players in the league this year.

2023:
Bolton, considered forward is 4th.
Baker, defender, was ranked 2nd for defenders score involvements. Would have been +20% on our best defender this year.

2022:
Bolton, forward is 1st
Baker, defender, 2nd. Would have ranked second for our FORWARDS this year.

These two make good decisions with the ball and create scores.

Yes but, but, but… their 2024 score involvements only look that good because they played in a winning, high scoring team.

 

[arsesmart]

You're using one whole season as evidence, not his career? I'm going out on a limb here, you don't watch much non freo games do you?

It all depends what you might interpret the drop off this year being down to.

Some players elevate out of the mid-tier (or whatever tier) due to things, like effort or finding a niche, that may all of a dissipate due to things they can't control.

This may or may not be the case for Baker, but it needs to be considered.

 

[mayne iac]

Some fans acting like Baker is a Colin Sylvia type pick up. Criminal under rating of a genuine excellent player.

Bolton and Baker arguably 2 of Richmond’s top 5 most valued players.

Bolton fits a massive need.

Baker a massive Aish type player upgrade. Hard at it and will suit our style. Provides large flexibility. This can only be good.

Anyway, we all have opinions, but some of you are carrying on like we’re wining and dining a fringe player.

Its like some people have never seen him play - for me he's in out top 10 players, straight away.
He's like a Shultz type with a huge tank.

 

[s_wd6]

Four pages of this and he hasn't even decided he wants to come here yet. Can't imagine how bad its gonna be if he does choose us.

 

[dont bowl there]

It all depends what you might interpret the drop off this year being down to.

Some players elevate out of the mid-tier (or whatever tier) due to things, like effort or finding a niche, that may all of a dissipate due to things they can't control.

This may or may not be the case for Baker, but it needs to be considered.

He was playing the high half forward role in the worst team in the AFL. No shock his numbers were down.

 

[eastfreo75]

Its like some people have never seen him play - for me he's in out top 10 players, straight away.
He's like a Shultz type with a huge tank.

Sure, he would be top 10 but the thing teams are not made of the best players.

Teams need to have different skill sets to function. Too many same same either skills, or personality isn't effective.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Its like some people have never seen him play - for me he's in out top 10 players, straight away.
He's like a Shultz type with a huge tank.

Top 10 seems a stretch assuming fitness. I doubt he's in many teams top 10

 

[malpaso]

I think being "the mongrel" also had him making very bad decisions. Saw that several times in the space of a few minutes when we were well and truly in the process of taking the game away from them this year.

I don't really look at this year for stats/play for Bolton and Baker. Very uninspiring to get up each week for that list..

 

[Vintage]

Top 10 seems a stretch assuming fitness. I doubt he's in many teams top 10

4 consecutive top 6 bnf finishes in a team that had huge performance variations from flag to spoon says otherwise surely?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

4 consecutive top 6 bnf finishes in a team that had huge performance variations from flag to spoon says otherwise surely?

I think bnfs are misleading in terms of player value to a team as weird as that sentence is. Would you have Switta as our 5th best player?

Players that are better / more important than Baker next year: Treacy, Amiss, Darcy, Young, Serong, Brayshaw, Clark, Pearce, Ryan, Jackson, Bolton.

I don't think it's debatable those players have a higher ceiling / output / importance Baker next year, even if a couple need to rediscover their best.

There's a few more you could argue about but those are pretty definitive IMO.

He probably only just scrapes into Richmond top 10 actual best players this year ad well.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Its like some people have never seen him play - for me he's in out top 10 players, straight away.
He's like a Shultz type with a huge tank.

Top 10 seems a stretch assuming fitness. I doubt he's in many teams top 10

Treacy
Young
Serong
Brayshaw

Amiss
Pearce
Clark
Ryan

Darcy ?
Jackson ?


Clearly not top 8. Unlikely to be top 10, assuming Darcy is fit and Jackson is back to 2023 level.

I would put him a group from 11 to 17 with other players clearly best 22, but not really top 10.

Cox
Walker
Chapman
Switta
Sturt
Sharp

 

[malpaso]

It’s the relentlessness of his approach that does my head in. Especially when nothing can be done to prove otherwise.

It’s bully behaviour.

I don't think he's as bad as King. King is such a flog and infatuated with himself (because he sees himself better than most AFL coaches)

 

[freo1997]

Ffs can Baker make his mind up! Rabble or mediocrity. Which one?

 

[Quazar2]

He went quiet when they did play together and we went well.
Then he just unloads constantly at a time when there’s nothing we can currently do. He really is a knob. Personally, I hate ‘negative’ media posts, but I accept that’s just life.

To continue to make a point when players are injured or it’s an off season just smacks of someone with a massive ego who has to prove he’s right.

Time will tell. He may be right, but he’s a deadset flog and one day he’s going to cause someone to have health issues and I hope he gets taken to the cleaners.

He’s actually just a nasty person.

Totally agree with you. In the end, I learnt to let it go - the Vic-based media is CONSTANTLY witch-hunting the Freo football club and looks down its toffee-nose at it since day dot. There's nothing we can do but win a flag to shut a number of them up like Foot Cornes, but even then.... they'll probably find a way to sour it.

It's an obvious agenda, it's egregious and they SHOULD be called out for it, but the wolves like to attack the sheep because they're "weak", so that's how it goes. When Freo is 'down', they're an easy target - when they're doing well, these goons have NOTHING to say, not complimenting when fairly due. Nothing!

F*** him and the other lickspittle spiteful drongbats, I've nothing more to say about them.

 

[theGav56]

and he should only cost pick 25.

I'm in at this price point.

 

[dont bowl there]

Having lived over here for the last 12 years I can tell you it's not that deep, Fremantle just aren't important in any way when it comes to the media. You might think there is an agenda against us but trust me they don't care enough to have one.

 

[s_wd6]

Is there any actual news or progress on anything or

 

[go_the_dockers]

I'm in at this price point.

This is why I like targeting out of contract players.

You get them for unders.

 

[theGav56]

Aish isn’t best 22 anymore.

I hope Aish has a great preseason. He's still decent, flexible and excellent depth. He can still push for the 23.

 

[Alfonz]

I think bnfs are misleading in terms of player value to a team as weird as that sentence is. Would you have Switta as our 5th best player?

Players that are better / more important than Baker next year: Treacy, Amiss, Darcy, Young, Serong, Brayshaw, Clark, Pearce, Ryan, Jackson, Bolton.

I don't think it's debatable those players have a higher ceiling / output / importance Baker next year, even if a couple need to rediscover their best.

There's a few more you could argue about but those are pretty definitive IMO.

He probably only just scrapes into Richmond top 10 actual best players this year ad well.

They are also misleading as they can be skewed to player availability. Richmond had lots of players miss games in H&A season. Baker = durable and dependable. Good qualities for sure.

Players in green were clearly better or more important players than Baker. There's 10 in each year. Then you throw a blanket over the Short, Lambert, Baker, Castagna, Rioli types. Could argue the likes of Balta and Astbury more important. Baker would be in that 12th-16th bracket. When they lost their last final in 2022, he was ranked 14th for SC points. In their 2020 finals campaign, he was ranked 8th, 8th, 14th, 18th over the 4 games. Let's say 12th on average.

The notion that he was a top 5 player at Richmond based on B&F finishes is a fallacy. He was a 12th-14th type of player, just like he would be at Freo. And that can be very useful to have. A good little player that can improve the best 22. But we have a salary cap squeeze, so it isn't that simple.

2020 Jack Dyer Medal top 20​

1st – Jayden Short, 53 votes
2nd – Dustin Martin, 50
3rd – Nick Vlastuin, 49
4th – Shai Bolton, 44
5th – Kamdyn McIntosh, 43
6th – Liam Baker, 42
7th – Dylan Grimes, 41
8th – Noah Balta, 40
9th – Kane Lambert, 39
10th – Trent Cotchin, 37
11th – Jack Graham, 34
12th – Tom Lynch, 33
13th – Jason Castagna, 32
Equal 14th – Jack Riewoldt, 29
Equal 14th – Daniel Rioli, 29
Equal 16th – Jake Aarts, 28
Equal 16th – Toby Nankervis, 28
18th – Marlion Pickett, 26
19th – Shane Edwards, 22
20th – Bachar Houli, 19

2021 Jack Dyer Medal top 20
1st – Dylan Grimes, 51 votes
Eq. 2nd – Jack Graham, 46
Eq. 2nd – Liam Baker, 46
4th – Shai Bolton, 45
Eq. 5th – Jack Riewoldt, 40
Eq. 5th – Dustin Martin, 40
7th – Jayden Short, 39
8th – Tom Lynch, 38
9th – Kane Lambert, 35
Eq. 10th – Trent Cotchin, 33
Eq. 10th – Nathan Broad, 33
12th – Toby Nankervis, 32
Eq. 13th – Marlion Pickett, 28
Eq. 13th – Jake Aarts, 28
Eq. 13th – Daniel Rioli, 28
Eq. 16th – Kamdyn McIntosh, 27
Eq. 16th – Jason Castagna, 27
Eq. 18th – David Astbury, 26
Eq. 18th – Dion Prestia, 26
Eq. 20th – Shane Edwards, 25
Eq. 20th – Nick Vlastuin, 25

2022 Jack Dyer Medal top 20 players
1st – Tom Lynch, 60
2nd – Daniel Rioli, 59
3rd – Dion Prestia, 56
Eq. 4th – Shai Bolton, 53
Eq. 4th – Liam Baker, 53
Eq. 6th – Trent Cotchin, 52
Eq. 6th – Jayden Short, 52
Eq. 8th – Toby Nankervis, 47
Eq. 8th – Marlion Pickett, 47
10th – Nathan Broad, 46
Eq. 11th – Nick Vlastuin, 44
Eq. 11th – Robbie Tarrant, 44
Eq. 13th – Dylan Grimes, 39
Eq. 13th – Kamdyn McIntosh, 39
15th – Jack Riewoldt, 34
16th – Jack Graham, 32
Eq. 17th – Shane Edwards, 23
Eq. 17th – Maurice Rioli Jr, 23
Eq. 19th – Dustin Martin, 19
Eq. 19th – Noah Cumberland, 19

 

[theGav56]

Maybe getting in someone that has a heap of finals experience and is known for his clean one touch play would help?

There's a video on YouTube showing what the ladder looks like if the close games were reversed. He does 6 points and 10 points. Long story short, we make finals.

That is my expectations of what Bolton, Baker and natural list improvement will bring.

Finals experience definitely has a value.

 

[theGav56]

Cornes makes a valid point.
jackson is supposed to be a generational/unicorn/could be anything player.
Darcy had a known injury record when we did the Big Deal.
Positionally they substantially overlap.
To have only 1 in the Top 10 for 2024, and that 9th, is a very poor return on our massive investment.
Not saying the die is cast.
But if Darcy/Jackson deliver 80% on what we signed them up for in 2025 then we will play a GF with no other list changes whatsoever.
Over to you, lads...

Definitely not a good year for the twosome.

Geelong possibly felt ordinary after they traded 2 X first round picks for Ottens, who then rewarded them with numerous injuries and a Premiership.

It's a while ago, but top end big guys are pretty important.

 

[Joao]

Only 10 days till trade radio!

 

[Tonga Bob]

Only 10 days till trade radio!

Don't think I'm not aware of this.

 

[MadMundy]

Wait where's the mentality of Baker and NOD being correlated coming from? They've got nothing to do with each other. We can fit both.