He was playing the high half forward role in the worst team in the AFL. No shock his numbers were down.
List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2
- Thread starter go_the_dockers
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
He was playing the high half forward role in the worst team in the AFL. No shock his numbers were down.
Sure, he would be top 10 but the thing teams are not made of the best players.
Teams need to have different skill sets to function. Too many same same either skills, or personality isn't effective.
Snuffaluphagus
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 10, 2015
- 25,399
- 88,005
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
Top 10 seems a stretch assuming fitness. I doubt he's in many teams top 10
I don't really look at this year for stats/play for Bolton and Baker. Very uninspiring to get up each week for that list..
4 consecutive top 6 bnf finishes in a team that had huge performance variations from flag to spoon says otherwise surely?
Snuffaluphagus
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 10, 2015
- 25,399
- 88,005
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
I think bnfs are misleading in terms of player value to a team as weird as that sentence is. Would you have Switta as our 5th best player?
Players that are better / more important than Baker next year: Treacy, Amiss, Darcy, Young, Serong, Brayshaw, Clark, Pearce, Ryan, Jackson, Bolton.
I don't think it's debatable those players have a higher ceiling / output / importance Baker next year, even if a couple need to rediscover their best.
There's a few more you could argue about but those are pretty definitive IMO.
He probably only just scrapes into Richmond top 10 actual best players this year ad well.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #8,782
Treacy
Young
Serong
Brayshaw
Amiss
Pearce
Clark
Ryan
Darcy ?
Jackson ?
Clearly not top 8. Unlikely to be top 10, assuming Darcy is fit and Jackson is back to 2023 level.
I would put him a group from 11 to 17 with other players clearly best 22, but not really top 10.
Cox
Walker
Chapman
Switta
Sturt
Sharp
I don't think he's as bad as King. King is such a flog and infatuated with himself (because he sees himself better than most AFL coaches)
Quazar2
All Australian
- Apr 3, 2024
- 810
- 1,935
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
Totally agree with you. In the end, I learnt to let it go - the Vic-based media is CONSTANTLY witch-hunting the Freo football club and looks down its toffee-nose at it since day dot. There's nothing we can do but win a flag to shut a number of them up like Foot Cornes, but even then.... they'll probably find a way to sour it.
It's an obvious agenda, it's egregious and they SHOULD be called out for it, but the wolves like to attack the sheep because they're "weak", so that's how it goes. When Freo is 'down', they're an easy target - when they're doing well, these goons have NOTHING to say, not complimenting when fairly due. Nothing!
F*** him and the other lickspittle spiteful drongbats, I've nothing more to say about them.
Having lived over here for the last 12 years I can tell you it's not that deep, Fremantle just aren't important in any way when it comes to the media. You might think there is an agenda against us but trust me they don't care enough to have one.
- Thread starter
- #8,789
They are also misleading as they can be skewed to player availability. Richmond had lots of players miss games in H&A season. Baker = durable and dependable. Good qualities for sure.
Players in green were clearly better or more important players than Baker. There's 10 in each year. Then you throw a blanket over the Short, Lambert, Baker, Castagna, Rioli types. Could argue the likes of Balta and Astbury more important. Baker would be in that 12th-16th bracket. When they lost their last final in 2022, he was ranked 14th for SC points. In their 2020 finals campaign, he was ranked 8th, 8th, 14th, 18th over the 4 games. Let's say 12th on average.
The notion that he was a top 5 player at Richmond based on B&F finishes is a fallacy. He was a 12th-14th type of player, just like he would be at Freo. And that can be very useful to have. A good little player that can improve the best 22. But we have a salary cap squeeze, so it isn't that simple.
2020 Jack Dyer Medal top 20
1st – Jayden Short, 53 votes2nd – Dustin Martin, 50
3rd – Nick Vlastuin, 49
4th – Shai Bolton, 44
5th – Kamdyn McIntosh, 43
6th – Liam Baker, 42
7th – Dylan Grimes, 41
8th – Noah Balta, 40
9th – Kane Lambert, 39
10th – Trent Cotchin, 37
11th – Jack Graham, 34
12th – Tom Lynch, 33
13th – Jason Castagna, 32
Equal 14th – Jack Riewoldt, 29
Equal 14th – Daniel Rioli, 29
Equal 16th – Jake Aarts, 28
Equal 16th – Toby Nankervis, 28
18th – Marlion Pickett, 26
19th – Shane Edwards, 22
20th – Bachar Houli, 19
2021 Jack Dyer Medal top 20
1st – Dylan Grimes, 51 votes
Eq. 2nd – Jack Graham, 46
Eq. 2nd – Liam Baker, 46
4th – Shai Bolton, 45
Eq. 5th – Jack Riewoldt, 40
Eq. 5th – Dustin Martin, 40
7th – Jayden Short, 39
8th – Tom Lynch, 38
9th – Kane Lambert, 35
Eq. 10th – Trent Cotchin, 33
Eq. 10th – Nathan Broad, 33
12th – Toby Nankervis, 32
Eq. 13th – Marlion Pickett, 28
Eq. 13th – Jake Aarts, 28
Eq. 13th – Daniel Rioli, 28
Eq. 16th – Kamdyn McIntosh, 27
Eq. 16th – Jason Castagna, 27
Eq. 18th – David Astbury, 26
Eq. 18th – Dion Prestia, 26
Eq. 20th – Shane Edwards, 25
Eq. 20th – Nick Vlastuin, 25
2022 Jack Dyer Medal top 20 players
1st – Tom Lynch, 60
2nd – Daniel Rioli, 59
3rd – Dion Prestia, 56
Eq. 4th – Shai Bolton, 53
Eq. 4th – Liam Baker, 53
Eq. 6th – Trent Cotchin, 52
Eq. 6th – Jayden Short, 52
Eq. 8th – Toby Nankervis, 47
Eq. 8th – Marlion Pickett, 47
10th – Nathan Broad, 46
Eq. 11th – Nick Vlastuin, 44
Eq. 11th – Robbie Tarrant, 44
Eq. 13th – Dylan Grimes, 39
Eq. 13th – Kamdyn McIntosh, 39
15th – Jack Riewoldt, 34
16th – Jack Graham, 32
Eq. 17th – Shane Edwards, 23
Eq. 17th – Maurice Rioli Jr, 23
Eq. 19th – Dustin Martin, 19
Eq. 19th – Noah Cumberland, 19
There's a video on YouTube showing what the ladder looks like if the close games were reversed. He does 6 points and 10 points. Long story short, we make finals.
That is my expectations of what Bolton, Baker and natural list improvement will bring.
Finals experience definitely has a value.
Definitely not a good year for the twosome.
Geelong possibly felt ordinary after they traded 2 X first round picks for Ottens, who then rewarded them with numerous injuries and a Premiership.
It's a while ago, but top end big guys are pretty important.
DRAGONS FFC - Moderator
- #8,797
I'm not taking numbers per se. I've watch a bit of Richmond this year and paid a lot attention on Baker (and Bolton). He wasn't performing to the same level qualitatively.
Yeah, dumb.
Oh no! Getting Baker means someone who isn’t as good is ‘forced’ out!!
It’s like people don’t even want to improve our best 22.
I’m also not saying NOD isn’t as good, just the general vibe of getting Baler pushes someone out.
Well no der!
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
