Mega Thread 2024 Media & Miscellaneous Thread

[apuchar]

That’s not how clearance stats work

“Credited to the player who has the first effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area, or an ineffective kick or clanger kick that clears the stoppage area.”

So that is not always the initial ball winner

 

[Taylor]

Another fun fact, if a player takes possession from a hitout from their ruckman, even if he is in clear space by himself, it's recorded as a contested possession.

 

[Bigger]

They'll rename the Brownlow once he's done. Future players will be scrapping hard for the Serong Gong.

 

[Paracleet]

Interesting to see that Andy is leading Freo for centre clearances. I was sure I had heard from an infallible BF-er that Andy is no good at clearance work. I must be wrong.

He was averaging 2.9 clearances a game during his career prior to the beginning of the season. That's all clearances. Last year he was 70th in the league for average centre clearances. It was probably a fair thing for someone to say (maybe fair would have been 'below average for a starting inside mid' rather than 'no good'.).

 

[wakojako]

Interesting to see that Andy is leading Freo for centre clearances. I was sure I had heard from an infallible BF-er that Andy is no good at clearance work. I must be wrong.

That's a BS stat. Our ruckman who is arguably best in the comp is responsible for Andy leading center clearences. Stoppage clearences and contested possessions matter more which is why a small midfield of Brashaw/Serong/JOM will never go deep into finals. Imo if you move Bae to a wing and bring in a combo of Johnson/Serong/Ras we will be a top 4 midfield (after the rookies reach 50+ games).

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

So that is not always the initial ball winner

It's the one who disposes to someone on the outside or the one who picks it off the ground and bangs it forward. The only way you can be credit a clearance from someone elses hard work is by a fantastic ruck tap or someone fumbling the contested ball into space. Brayshaw earns his clearances the same way anyone else does.

 

[royale with cheese]

It's the one who disposes to someone on the outside or the one who picks it off the ground and bangs it forward. The only way you can be credit a clearance from someone elses hard work is by a fantastic ruck tap or someone fumbling the contested ball into space. Brayshaw earns his clearances the same way anyone else does.

Centre clearance is usually the first possession that goes to someone outside your own starting midfield, whereas around the ground clearances is a bit more of a rubbery definition. Harder to win the latter clearance because there’s less space

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

He was averaging 2.9 clearances a game during his career prior to the beginning of the season. That's all clearances. Last year he was 70th in the league for average centre clearances. It was probably a fair thing for someone to say (maybe fair would have been 'below average for a starting inside mid' rather than 'no good'.).

Nah, we arent giving him an out, there was specific claims of him being scared of contact which was complete bullshit. Andy's role previously was the outside link player which is why his numbers were so low, in a now slightly modified role, he's getting more clearances. He's never going to be Cripps or Fyfe but he can get clearances if it's a required part of his role

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Centre clearance is usually the first possession that goes to someone outside your own starting midfield, whereas around the ground clearances is a bit more of a rubbery definition. Harder to win the latter clearance because there’s less space

Unless I'm mistaken, are centre clearances not just a clearance from the centre square...

 

[royale with cheese]

Unless I'm mistaken, are centre clearances not just a clearance from the centre square...

as I understood it, if you dish out a handball to a winger who was crept into the centre square and he kicks it forward, the hand baller is credited with the clearance.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

as I understood it, if you dish out a handball to a winger who was crept into the centre square and he kicks it forward, the hand baller is credited with the clearance.

Yeah, that's what I was saying with my original post so we might be agreeing, I'm lost haha. People are trying to discredit Brayshaws clearances, if he's credited with one, he's earnt it same as anyone else. I'm not sure about the "ground ball clearance" but the only difference between Bray's centre clearance stat to Serong's stoppage clearance stat is that Serong's is the whole ground where Brayshaw's is purely the centre I believe

 

[ignoramus]

Nah, we arent giving him an out, there was specific claims of him being scared of contact which was complete bullshit. Andy's role previously was the outside link player which is why his numbers were so low, in a now slightly modified role, he's getting more clearances. He's never going to be Cripps or Fyfe but he can get clearances if it's a required part of his role

Yep. His contested possession numbers are also at a career high.

as I understood it, if you dish out a handball to a winger who was crept into the centre square and he kicks it forward, the hand baller is credited with the clearance.

In other words "the player who has the first effective disposal in a chain that clears the stoppage area"

 

[Taylor]

Can you spot a role change...

 

[royale with cheese]

Yeah, that's what I was saying with my original post so we might be agreeing, I'm lost haha. People are trying to discredit Brayshaws clearances, if he's credited with one, he's earnt it same as anyone else. I'm not sure about the "ground ball clearance" but the only difference between Bray's centre clearance stat to Serong's stoppage clearance stat is that Serong's is the whole ground where Brayshaw's is purely the centre I believe

Yeah but this isn’t necessarily the case if he were to handball it to Darcy or Serong at the centre clearance

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Yeah but this isn’t necessarily the case if he were to handball it to Darcy or Serong at the centre clearance

I'm so lost haha, if one of Serong or Darcy then get it futher outside, that's a Brayshaw clearance. It's a stoppage clearance wherever it is and a centre clearance if in the middle after goal / siren. The only way a clearance definition changes as far as I'm aware is where the clearance occurs and that's just to add F50/stoppage/centre in front of it

 

[royale with cheese]

I'm so lost haha, if one of Serong or Darcy then get it futher outside, that's a Brayshaw clearance. It's a stoppage clearance wherever it is and a centre clearance if in the middle after goal / siren. The only way a clearance definition changes as far as I'm aware is where the clearance occurs and that's just to add F50/stoppage/centre in front of it

Nah if it’s a ring a rosy of handballs that don’t actually clear the area then a clearance isn’t credited iirc. It’s how Mundy won so many clearances when he was usually the one on the end of a handball, he had the clearing kick

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Nah if it’s a ring a rosy of handballs that don’t actually clear the area then a clearance isn’t credited iirc. It’s how Mundy won so many clearances when he was usually the one on the end of a handball, he had the clearing kick

That's the same as any clearance...

Every clearance Brayshaw has be given this year has been a clearing kick from a ball he's won off the ground or from giving hands to someone else who then kicks it. If Mundy was on the end of a clear handball before kicking into space, he would not be credited the clearance, the handballer would

 

[Taylor]

Mundy got so many clearances because both Freo and the opposition were trying to move the ball through either Mundy or his direct opponent and he was smart enough to win that contest before it became a chasing game.

 

[royale with cheese]

That's the same as any clearance...

Every clearance Brayshaw has be given this year has been a clearing kick from a ball he's won off the ground or from giving hands to someone else who then kicks it. If Mundy was on the end of a clear handball before kicking into space, he would not be credited the clearance, the handballer would

Nah that's not how it works. The handballer isn't credited with a clearance if it doesn't clear the stoppage area. It's the first effective possession in a chain that clears the stoppage. That can be first possession, it can be after a series of handballs, but it has to clear the stoppage.

For centre clearances statisticians make it easier for themselves by defining the stoppage as everyone who starts in the centre.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Nah that's not how it works. The handballer isn't credited with a clearance if it doesn't clear the stoppage area. It's the first effective possession in a chain that clears the stoppage. That can be first possession, it can be after a series of handballs, but it has to clear the stoppage.

For centre clearances statisticians make it easier for themselves by defining the stoppage as everyone who starts in the centre.

But we're saying the exact same thing, that's why I keep on adding "x player kicks it clear afterwards."

If Mundy clears the stoppage area with a kick after receiving a handpass from someone, Mundy cannot be given a clearance because he is never first possession winner in a chain

 

[estibador]

The purpose of this was to track the hardest draw by using this season rather than last year correct?

Wouldn't it be more accurate then for the previous weeks' values to change to reflect the current position of the teams?

Eg: Say GC smacked the eagles by 15 goals in R1 to go top, then didn't win another game for the rest of the year, wouldn't it be a more accurate reflection of draw difficulty if their R2 opponent was given 17 instead of 1 once GC's true quality is revealed?

 

[Taylor]

The purpose of this was to track the hardest draw by using this season rather than last year correct?

Wouldn't it be more accurate then for the previous weeks' values to change to reflect the current position of the teams?

Eg: Say GC smacked the eagles by 15 goals in R1 to go top, then didn't win another game for the rest of the year, wouldn't it be a more accurate reflection of draw difficulty if their R2 opponent was given 17 instead of 1 once GC's true quality is revealed?

I'm finding it more useful to see how teams were tracking when they met, but I think there are a few iterations of how this sort of data could be used.

We could do it like you say, tracking the current positions of teams on the ladder and retrospectively applying that through the year.

I'm expecting form the fluctuate during the season but I was most interested so far to see Geelong getting it's season back on track by belting the bottom two sides and losing to those slightly higher than bottom on the ladder. Sides like Essendon and St Kilda beating up lower ranked sides and beating one "top" team each so far

 

[royale with cheese]

But we're saying the exact same thing, that's why I keep on adding "x player kicks it clear afterwards."

If Mundy clears the stoppage area with a kick after receiving a handpass from someone, Mundy cannot be given a clearance because he is never first possession winner in a chain

Hmm yeah, now that I think about it a bit more, you're right. I still (personally) see the clearance as the disposal that clears the ball from the congestion. Eg on the occasion Mundy received a handball in a stoppage, and shrugged off tacklers to pass the ball to a leading forward, in my mind he still 'won' the clearance, because he received and disposed the ball under stoppage pressure, regardless of who won first possession and got the ball to him. It doesn't clear the stoppage until Mundy kicks it.

To me, it's one thing to hot potato it around a clearance with handball, it's another to be the decisive first movement away from congestion, if that makes sense.

 

[royale with cheese]

I guess what I'm saying is what is most valuable is the line breaking / congestion clearing inside mid. They're not always the player who gets the first possession or hard ball get, but they are the one who can most often turn a pressured chain of possessions to an unpressured chain. Eg guys like Mundy, Pendlebury, De Goey, Dangerfield, Bontempelli, Fyfe.

Pendlebury does it by being able to slow down time and execute a perfect pass. Mundy did it by using his huge frame to shake off tacklers and do the same as Pendelbury. De Goey & Dangerfield use speed and bull like charging to break free.

And Fyfe could do it by absorbing an inhumane amount of tackling pressure before dishing off.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Hmm yeah, now that I think about it a bit more, you're right. I still (personally) see the clearance as the disposal that clears the ball from the congestion. Eg on the occasion Mundy received a handball in a stoppage, and shrugged off tacklers to pass the ball to a leading forward, in my mind he still 'won' the clearance, because he received and disposed the ball under stoppage pressure, regardless of who won first possession and got the ball to him. It doesn't clear the stoppage until Mundy kicks it.

To me, it's one thing to hot potato it around a clearance with handball, it's another to be the decisive first movement away from congestion, if that makes sense.

Ahh yes, that we agree on, it’s why there’s clearances and there’s “clearances” in my mind. A Luke Jackson clearance for example is often a very different beast to a JOM clearance.