Play Nice 2024 Non AFL Crowds/Ratings and other Industry thread

[The_Wookie]

 

[BobbyMorri]

A lot of American clubs with some global soccer clubs and F1 teams.

The NFL clubs(and other US teams) are valued so highly because

The soccer clubs have an unmatched global reach but their values lag on a revenue multiple basis compared to their American counterparts. Three factors are in play for this dynamic, including a lack of player cost controls that suppress profits, a less cooperative membership base, and the very remote possibility of a relegation to a lower division with a catastrophic season.

I wonder if the IPL teams will break through this list in the coming years, if they aren't already. Think they are the biggest clubs outside the US salary cap leagues and big European soccer clubs

 

[Aussie in exile]

A lot of American clubs with some global soccer clubs and F1 teams.

The NFL clubs(and other US teams) are valued so highly because



I wonder if the IPL teams will break through this list in the coming years, if they aren't already. Think they are the biggest clubs outside the US salary cap leagues and big European soccer clubs

From what I can see about 85 of the teams are from North America, and the rest are European soccer teams or Formula 1 teams.

 

[BobbyMorri]

From what I can see about 85 of the teams are from North America, and the rest are European soccer teams or Formula 1 teams.

yeah. But makes sense. They are closed leagues with a salary cup mean more profit than the average soccer club. A soccer club needs to spend to make sure they still qualify for Europe and not get relegated. And have no spending caps.

Whereas NBA clubs can tank to death and still be in the league for example.

It is why I think the IPL clubs will be on this list now or soon, depending on how well they did their research.

 

[Aussie in exile]

yeah. But makes sense. They are closed leagues with a salary cup mean more profit than the average soccer club. A soccer club needs to spend to make sure they still qualify for Europe and not get relegated. And have no spending caps.

Whereas NBA clubs can tank to death and still be in the league for example.

It is why I think the IPL clubs will be on this list now or soon, depending on how well they did their research.

I think it also shows how small fry Australian sport is on the world sports stage.

 

[Bjo187]

View attachment 1910772

Interesting when Vlandy's came on the scene, half the disclosure of actual revenues disappeared (the afl disclose too much imo and give away all their secrets).

I do wonder where all the new revenue is coming from considering they would have lost more than 20 mill from digital. Tv only went up slightly, so maybe wagering and government? This from knowing his history in betting and penchant for always having his hand out for taxpayer money.

 

[The Educator]

Interesting when Vlandy's came on the scene, half the disclosure of actual revenues disappeared (the afl disclose too much imo and give away all their secrets).

I do wonder where all the new revenue is coming from considering they would have lost more than 20 mill from digital. Tv only went up slightly, so maybe wagering and government? This from knowing his history in betting and penchant for always having his hand out for taxpayer money.

The Gambaro hotel is apparently worth anywhere from $10 to $20 million in the annual revenues (according to quick google search locating sketchy references) and the jump in financing income was almost certainly explainable by the climbing interest rates. It isn't clear where the hotel is itemised in that revenue note.

The licencing category is the interesting one. This is the first year of the new contract and we have a $76M increase in the category in which that revenue item is buried. From memory, the Covid discount in 2022 was around $40M. There is an extra $10M in Contra. This leaves about $26M in cash at most above the last TV deal (though less than this given "wagering" was identified as one of the drivers of increase revenue).

The other thing about this is that, given we know that channel 9 and foxtel offers were both maintained in nominal terms from the previous deal, it is highly unlikely that there is any escalation in those deals. I.e. the media revenue will be the same each year out to 2027

The actual revenue increase since 2019 (i.e. before Covid) was $145M. My best estimate of the AFL increase is about $170M (not including the Vic government grants for Marvel). This gap will just grow substantially with a healthy media rights escalation this year and with the new broadcast deal kicking in.

 

[Bjo187]

The Gambaro hotel is apparently worth anywhere from $10 to $20 million in the annual revenues (according to quick google search locating sketchy references) and the jump in financing income was almost certainly explainable by the climbing interest rates. It isn't clear where the hotel is itemised in that revenue note.

Do you mean interest earnt on money they have in the bank? Does this mean they bought the hotels outright. The 20 mill revenue for a hotel sounds about right, but surely staff costs would be high in a hotel too.

The licencing category is the interesting one. This is the first year of the new contract and we have a $76M increase in the category in which that revenue item is buried. From memory, the Covid discount in 2022 was around $40M. There is an extra $10M in Contra. This leaves about $26M in cash at most above the last TV deal (though less than this given "wagering" was identified as one of the drivers of increase revenue).

I wonder what the wagering increase is, are they doing something different to the afl here? Do you have an estimate on the nrl tv deal per year? It must have been pretty bad coz that's when all the numbers started to get hidden even more, off the back of that deal. I also feel their new tv deal will 100 percent be 9 and fox again. 7 won't have the money to bid, nobody wants a bar of 10 and Murdoch is helping them with their American venture. Plus they will never get the free promotion they get like news gives.

The other thing about this is that, given we know that channel 9 and foxtel offers were both maintained in nominal terms from the previous deal, it is highly unlikely that there is any escalation in those deals. I.e. the media revenue will be the same each year out to 2027

The actual revenue increase since 2019 (i.e. before Covid) was $145M. My best estimate of the AFL increase is about $170M (not including the Vic government grants for Marvel). This gap will just grow substantially with a healthy media rights escalation this year and with the new broadcast deal kicking in.

That's good to hear, really the afl should be increasing their revenue more anyway off double average attendances, afl members and all the concerts and events at marvel. I'm actually surprised the gap is that close. In saying that you'd think the nrl passed the afl in revenue increases the way they are carrying on.

 

[The_Wookie]

The Gambaro hotel is apparently worth anywhere from $10 to $20 million in the annual revenues (according to quick google search locating sketchy references) and the jump in financing income was almost certainly explainable by the climbing interest rates. It isn't clear where the hotel is itemised in that revenue note.

Its revenue falls under investment income, which is part of the Operations and Events line.

The actual revenue increase since 2019 (i.e. before Covid) was $145M. My best estimate of the AFL increase is about $170M (not including the Vic government grants for Marvel). This gap will just grow substantially with a healthy media rights escalation this year and with the new broadcast deal kicking in.

AFL revenue increase is just over 200m when Grants are removed. The AFL said they had 104.5m in operational revenue increase from 2022, which should put it around 950m for the year. (mind you they also said they got their final grant installment for Marvel should be about 30m).

 

[The Educator]

Do you mean interest earnt on money they have in the bank? Does this mean they bought the hotels outright. The 20 mill revenue for a hotel sounds about right, but surely staff costs would be high in a hotel too.

Yeah essentially there cashola would earn greater interest due to higher interest rates.

Yeah costs would be a significant proportion of whatever the revenue is. Apparently the profit rate for hotels is around 10%.....so if the revenue was 10 million you would expect about 9 million in costs.

(In this case I will happily totally defer to the Wookie).

I wonder what the wagering increase is, are they doing something different to the afl here? Do you have an estimate on the nrl tv deal per year? It must have been pretty bad coz that's when all the numbers started to get hidden even more, off the back of that deal. I also feel their new tv deal will 100 percent be 9 and fox again. 7 won't have the money to bid, nobody wants a bar of 10 and Murdoch is helping them with their American venture. Plus they will never get the free promotion they get like news gives.

I don't know but I am going off what I could suss out last year.

As you can see from the Wookie's consolidated table of financial summaries, at some point the NRL went from reporting wagering in with sponsorship to reporting it alongside media (i.e. under licencing)

In 2021, licencing category had recovered back to the 2019 level. We know that there was still a hefty TV discount in that figure which would otherwise have been some escalation above 2019 (media deals generally increase in percentage in each year of a deal)

The NRL told the ABC is made $50M from wagering in 2022

'It's disturbing': This suburban football club had no idea international gamblers could place bets on their games

Australian soccer's governing body is taking a cut from every local bet placed on games at all levels, including amateur suburban competitions.

www.abc.net.au

That's good to hear, really the afl should be increasing their revenue more anyway off double average attendances, afl members and all the concerts and events at marvel. I'm actually surprised the gap is that close. In saying that you'd think the nrl passed the afl in revenue increases the way they are carrying on.

Yep, you would!

 

[The Educator]

Its revenue falls under investment income, which is part of the Operations and Events line.

View attachment 1911170

View attachment 1911171

Ah, thanks for that. Curious now as to what the jump in "Sundry" income is

AFL revenue increase is just over 200m when Grants are removed. The AFL said they had 104.5m in operational revenue increase from 2022, which should put it around 950m for the year. (mind you they also said they got their final grant installment for Marvel should be about 30m).

View attachment 1911174

I guess we will see when the annual report comes out. I deducted $88M for stadium grants from 944 and then added the 104 to get to $960M underlying revenue this year (which would put it $166M above 2019)

 

[Aussie in exile]

British tax exile wants British taxpayers to pay for a new stadium for his soccer club.
Read the comments. The Brits are not happy and the guy doesn't pay a penny to the British government in income.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68361025

 

[weewilly]

Interesting when Vlandy's came on the scene, half the disclosure of actual revenues disappeared (the afl disclose too much imo and give away all their secrets).

I do wonder where all the new revenue is coming from considering they would have lost more than 20 mill from digital. Tv only went up slightly, so maybe wagering and government? This from knowing his history in betting and penchant for always having his hand out for taxpayer money.

Bogan boofhead and Sydney media tart V'Landys is well known for miss handling the truth to suit himself and the BS he spins.

 

[weewilly]

Just the usual BS from V'Landys and Murdochs Sydney gutter rag and they should be called out for printing this utter crap as a lot of fools will believe it even if it is tounge in cheek.

From The Daily Tele

But with the NRL’s announcement this week of record profits for 2023, it appears the AFL’s task of overhauling Australia’s No. 1 sport is now unassailable.

Dripping in proverbial Cristal as he delivered the news on Wednesday, ARLC chairman Peter V’landys smugly rolled off a raft of fiscal PB’s for The Greatest Game of All like a feline smoking a slim cigarette.

This included record revenue of $700m, colossal upticks in distributions for clubs and grassroots, and the yearly staple of braining its rivals in TV ratings.

But while the game’s record profit of $58.2m is small fry to a mint like the AFL – an amount they racked up in scarves by the time the chairman finished his triumphant presser – the alarm bells for the Victorian code lie deeper in the detail.


The AFL simply can’t match … whatever this is. Photo: NRL Images.
It’s not the NRL’s record revenue that should cause concern, nor its booming numbers of eyeballs or the utter shock of Aaron Woods fronting NFL coverage.

It’s the chilling realisation that rugby league has finally begun respecting its own wallet for the first time in 116 years.




Put simply, the AFL should be quivering knowing its rival has somehow snapped at its heels for over a century despite barely having two coins to rub together.

Considering the NRL’s mortgage on ratings and its dwarfing footprint internationally, it’s only a matter of time before the 13-man code is out of sight now it’s no longer blurting away its meagre savings like Lloyd Christmas.

With rugby league awake to the advantages of stuff like savings and assets, its previous fiscal model of surviving off pokies and fining Ricky Stuart is now a distant memory.


For those unfamiliar, rugby league has a history of largely lurching from one Mariana Trench to the next, with its cultural neglect of coin so reckless it was only eight weeks shy of insolvency during Covid.

Yet despite a lifetime as a hot mess run on feelings and bounced cheques, somehow it still punched admirably against the Kremlin finances of the Putin-esque AFL.

But now the goalposts have been shifted.

The game is boasting a net asset base of $260m and it’s not ephemeral stuff like TV money and the Daly Cherry Evans deal.

Better still, it’s finally banking some of its TV money rather than blowing it up the wall on Bunkers and Waratahs.

NRL is officially better than the AFL. Photos: News Corp and Getty Images
Yep, after the irresponsible spending of the Super League War, the David Smith hire car era and the herniated running costs of the Todd Greenberg administration, rugby league has awoken as a wealthy powerhouse.

It’s thanks to the wizardry of V’Landys and Andrew Abdo, two men who can stretch numbers to such proportions that the Bears earned 200,000 members and Dylan Edwards 191 assists.

Nevertheless, it’s not completely fatal for the AFL.

In fact, it doesn’t need to fold yet, not at least until the end of the season anyway.

Despite the NRL’s brash growth, Aussie Rules remains top dog in critical metrics like crowds, national footprint and illegal au pairs, and still enjoys a cult-like membership that would make the Vatican envious.

Don’t forget the NRL is also suffering with the skeletonised state of bush footy and, despite the record injection of revenue, concerning numbers of kids down the eastern seaboard drowning in Auskick footies.

But it’s a rolling s**tshow for rugby league no different to the last 116 years and it’s a resilience no amount of celebs photographed with Sherrins can overcome.

​

‘AFL is No. 2’: NRL boss ignites code war
Add the NRL no longer Afterpaying its credit card bill and it spells doom for the nation’s second-best code.

With an exciting new revenue stream being mined in the US gambling market and the promise of taxpayer funding budding from government paranoia towards China, rugby league and its tremendous purse now sits untouchable atop its throne – at least until they blow it all on the Craps table in Vegas.

Dane Eldridge is a warped cynic yearning for the glory days of rugby league, a time when the sponges were magic and the Mondays were mad. He’s never strapped on a boot in his life, and as such, should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Bjo187]

Just the usual BS from V'Landys and Murdochs Sydney gutter rag and they should be called out for printing this utter crap as a lot of fools will believe it even if it is tounge in cheek.

From The Daily Tele

But with the NRL’s announcement this week of record profits for 2023, it appears the AFL’s task of overhauling Australia’s No. 1 sport is now unassailable.

Dripping in proverbial Cristal as he delivered the news on Wednesday, ARLC chairman Peter V’landys smugly rolled off a raft of fiscal PB’s for The Greatest Game of All like a feline smoking a slim cigarette.

This included record revenue of $700m, colossal upticks in distributions for clubs and grassroots, and the yearly staple of braining its rivals in TV ratings.

But while the game’s record profit of $58.2m is small fry to a mint like the AFL – an amount they racked up in scarves by the time the chairman finished his triumphant presser – the alarm bells for the Victorian code lie deeper in the detail.


The AFL simply can’t match … whatever this is. Photo: NRL Images.
It’s not the NRL’s record revenue that should cause concern, nor its booming numbers of eyeballs or the utter shock of Aaron Woods fronting NFL coverage.

It’s the chilling realisation that rugby league has finally begun respecting its own wallet for the first time in 116 years.




Put simply, the AFL should be quivering knowing its rival has somehow snapped at its heels for over a century despite barely having two coins to rub together.

Considering the NRL’s mortgage on ratings and its dwarfing footprint internationally, it’s only a matter of time before the 13-man code is out of sight now it’s no longer blurting away its meagre savings like Lloyd Christmas.

With rugby league awake to the advantages of stuff like savings and assets, its previous fiscal model of surviving off pokies and fining Ricky Stuart is now a distant memory.


For those unfamiliar, rugby league has a history of largely lurching from one Mariana Trench to the next, with its cultural neglect of coin so reckless it was only eight weeks shy of insolvency during Covid.

Yet despite a lifetime as a hot mess run on feelings and bounced cheques, somehow it still punched admirably against the Kremlin finances of the Putin-esque AFL.

But now the goalposts have been shifted.

The game is boasting a net asset base of $260m and it’s not ephemeral stuff like TV money and the Daly Cherry Evans deal.

Better still, it’s finally banking some of its TV money rather than blowing it up the wall on Bunkers and Waratahs.

NRL is officially better than the AFL. Photos: News Corp and Getty Images
Yep, after the irresponsible spending of the Super League War, the David Smith hire car era and the herniated running costs of the Todd Greenberg administration, rugby league has awoken as a wealthy powerhouse.

It’s thanks to the wizardry of V’Landys and Andrew Abdo, two men who can stretch numbers to such proportions that the Bears earned 200,000 members and Dylan Edwards 191 assists.

Nevertheless, it’s not completely fatal for the AFL.

In fact, it doesn’t need to fold yet, not at least until the end of the season anyway.

Despite the NRL’s brash growth, Aussie Rules remains top dog in critical metrics like crowds, national footprint and illegal au pairs, and still enjoys a cult-like membership that would make the Vatican envious.

Don’t forget the NRL is also suffering with the skeletonised state of bush footy and, despite the record injection of revenue, concerning numbers of kids down the eastern seaboard drowning in Auskick footies.

But it’s a rolling s**tshow for rugby league no different to the last 116 years and it’s a resilience no amount of celebs photographed with Sherrins can overcome.

​

‘AFL is No. 2’: NRL boss ignites code war
Add the NRL no longer Afterpaying its credit card bill and it spells doom for the nation’s second-best code.

With an exciting new revenue stream being mined in the US gambling market and the promise of taxpayer funding budding from government paranoia towards China, rugby league and its tremendous purse now sits untouchable atop its throne – at least until they blow it all on the Craps table in Vegas.

Dane Eldridge is a warped cynic yearning for the glory days of rugby league, a time when the sponges were magic and the Mondays were mad. He’s never strapped on a boot in his life, and as such, should be taken with a grain of salt.

This trash was on news(nrl).com.au too. I know it's satire, but it just shows how ridiculously biased news.ltd is. I assume even more so since Lachlan took the reigns. The AFL should regret signing a long term deal with them, Fairfax treats the game better than news.ltd, they just announced their 4th footy show during the week on 9 and the Sydney morning Herald is nowhere near the telegraph's anti afl garbage.

The most astounding article I saw the other day though which I posted here on Bigfooty, was the telegraph one that stated 'the nrl dethrones the afl after announcing a 700m revenue' and then zero mention throughout the entire article of the afl revenue being near 1 billion. I was astounded by the lack of journalistic integrity. news(nrl).com.au also posted one titled 'AFL is no. 2', that also failed to mention the afl revenue. Add to that, the afl announced their financials last week too, no article anywhere on news(nrl).com.au, of course not.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Just the usual BS from V'Landys and Murdochs Sydney gutter rag and they should be called out for printing this utter crap as a lot of fools will believe it even if it is tounge in cheek.

Even if it is tongue in cheek, it keeps them (NRL) on the airwaves and drives engagement, particularly online.

In an NRL saturated market, keeping the competition drowned out in their markets, I feel is favourable to the NRL. The whole, we're (NRL) is the best/Number 1 sport benefits the NRL greatly as it may reduce the likelihood of giving another sport (AFL) a look in and shapes attitudes.

I know a lot of people have varying thoughts on the AFL opening round, the AFL finding some clearer air from the NRL even if it's reduced NRL games that weekend is an opportunity where there are minimal/no other NRL games on/on TV at the same time. Given this, I am not particularly surprised the NRL would be trying to counter the AFL by getting on the airwaves with these kind of statements.

Not sure journalists should be reporting what could be viewed as unbalanced or biased reporting, though.

 

[The Educator]

Even if it is tongue in cheek, it keeps them (NRL) on the airwaves and drives engagement, particularly online.

In an NRL saturated market, keeping the competition drowned out in their markets, I feel is favourable to the NRL. The whole, we're (NRL) is the best/Number 1 sport benefits the NRL greatly as it may reduce the likelihood of giving another sport (AFL) a look in and shapes attitudes.

I know a lot of people have varying thoughts on the AFL opening round, the AFL finding some clearer air from the NRL even if it's reduced NRL games that weekend is exactly what the AFL should be doing, finding any opportunity for clearer air where there are minimal/no other NRL games on/on TV at the same time. Given this, I am not particularly surprised the NRL would be trying to counter the AFL by getting on the airwaves with these kind of statements.

Not sure journalists should be reporting what could be viewed as unbalanced or biased reporting, though.

This is why the AFL will ultimately prevail in NSW and QLD. The underlying level on interest just doesn't support the NRL maintaining that saturation. Rugby League doesn't have the underlying football code cultural dominance that AF has in the other half of the country or the respective dominant football codes have elsewhere in the world.

The AFL is nose and nose in participation. The era of city based mass media is fading. Time and resources are on the AFL's side

 

[weewilly]

This trash was on news(nrl).com.au too. I know it's satire, but it just shows how ridiculously biased news.ltd is. I assume even more so since Lachlan took the reigns. The AFL should regret signing a long term deal with them, Fairfax treats the game better than news.ltd, they just announced their 4th footy show during the week on 9 and the Sydney morning Herald is nowhere near the telegraph's anti afl garbage.

The most astounding article I saw the other day though which I posted here on Bigfooty, was the telegraph one that stated 'the nrl dethrones the afl after announcing a 700m revenue' and then zero mention throughout the entire article of the afl revenue being near 1 billion. I was astounded by the lack of journalistic integrity. news(nrl).com.au also posted one titled 'AFL is no. 2', that also failed to mention the afl revenue. Add to that, the afl announced their financials last week too, no article anywhere on news(nrl).com.au, of course not.

As it is said it was Goebbels the NAZI supreme propagandist who supposedly said “Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”and when the biggest newspaper in a major capital city falls for the NRL and and their go to favorite media tart V'Landys BS/Lies hook line and sinker it is just plain wrong and unethical (but then again we are talking about the US owned News Corp/Sky News after Dark where facts and ethics are not allowed to get in the way of a good beat up) but I suspect it has come more likely from the Murdoch's themselves esp Lachlan who is a big fan of RL just protecting their investment in Foxtel/Kayo RL telecasts!

We all know that the AFL is way ahead of the NRL on all KPIs apart from the RL ratings that are boosted with the high rating SOO matches but not a lot of people in Sydney would not know that.

 

[Giant YoYo]

This is why the AFL will ultimately prevail in NSW and QLD. The underlying level on interest just doesn't support the NRL maintaining that saturation. Rugby League doesn't have the underlying football code cultural dominance that AF has in the other half of the country or the respective dominant football codes have elsewhere in the world.

The AFL is nose and nose in participation. The era of city based mass media is fading. Time and resources are on the AFL's side

Agree.

I think there's a fair bit of nuance that requires considering, especially with the northern expansion that probably doesn't get discussed enough.

As an example, both the Giants & the Suns getting to the stage of being around long enough to start maturing as clubs, developing a strong culture, players re-signing/having some careerlong players, locals playing for the club, as well as, competitive on field performance (among other things) will create a positive feedback loop that will draw people in. I think we're already starting to see some telltale signs of this with promising signs.

Once it starts and the momentum gets going, compounding year on year growth will take care of the rest and that's next to inevitable once all the ingredients are there.

 

[Bjo187]

This is why the AFL will ultimately prevail in NSW and QLD. The underlying level on interest just doesn't support the NRL maintaining that saturation. Rugby League doesn't have the underlying football code cultural dominance that AF has in the other half of the country or the respective dominant football codes have elsewhere in the world.

The AFL is nose and nose in participation. The era of city based mass media is fading. Time and resources are on the AFL's side.

Rugby league has zero presence in the southern states, I've never seen one ball tossed backwards in anger in Melbourne in my life and I travel around the whole state for my job. On the other hand, football has a presence in nsw and in particular qld now and is a threat, that's why the constant jibes. It is weird though that the afl telecast partner in news.ltd basically mocks the afl through their northern papers and now through their national online news site. It's the one thing I miss about Demetriou, I don't think it would be happening under his watch. If I were Dillon or Goyder (it's too passive of a combination imo), I'd be ringing the editor in chief and asking them wtf is going on.

I honestly wouldn't have re signed with foxtel, Herald sun etc would still report on footy anyway, they can't afford not to, news.com.au the coverage would reduce, but it's already 80.20 in favour of nrl on there, so who cares. As I said Fairfax 9 support the game more than news do and they aren't even the broadcast partner. Foxtel would have almost gone under if they didn't get the afl rights, the coverage has been shit for almost 2 years, they should have made them agree to more balanced coverage as part of the new tv deal, or gone elsewhere.

As it is said it was Goebbels the NAZI supreme propagandist who supposedly said “Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”and when the biggest newspaper in a major capital city falls for the NRL and and their go to favorite media tart V'Landys BS/Lies hook line and sinker it is just plain wrong and unethical (but then again we are talking about the US owned News Corp/Sky News after Dark where facts and ethics are not allowed to get in the way of a good beat up) but I suspect it has come more likely from the Murdoch's themselves esp Lachlan who is a big fan of RL just protecting their investment in Foxtel/Kayo RL telecasts!

We all know that the AFL is way ahead of the NRL on all KPIs apart from the RL ratings that are boosted with the high rating SOO matches but not a lot of people in Sydney would not know that.

V'landy's is basically a trump, he lies again and again till people start to believe it, because news.ltd is on his side, just like fox news in the u.s. backed trump. The question is what's the best way to deal with it, do you go combative (I'd love Tony Cochrane as chairman of the afl, he is the best promoter around, he calls the nrl 'the great pretenders') or do you just continue to ignore him like the afl have been doing.

V'landy's gets zero media down here, only dedicated sports fans would know him, but now news national website is pushing him people might start to notice. I think at a minimum the afl need to trumpet they are winning in literally every key metric. I wonder if they still earn more than the NRL, football Australia and rugby Australia combined? I'd be clearing up all those things publically without addressing big mouth directly.

It's funny, the finals series showed the gap between the two sports is massive, but credit to big mouth, he has somehow turned that around to promote the little sport as the biggest in the country.

 

[The Educator]

Agree.

I think there's a fair bit of nuance that requires considering, especially with the northern expansion that probably doesn't get discussed enough.

As an example, both the Giants & the Suns getting to the stage of being around long enough to start maturing as clubs, developing a strong culture, players re-signing/having some careerlong players, locals playing for the club, as well as, competitive on field performance (among other things) will create a positive feedback loop that will draw people in. I think we're already starting to see some telltale signs of this with promising signs.

Once it starts and the momentum gets going, compounding year on year growth will take care of the rest and that's next to inevitable once all the ingredients are there.

This is really well put.

Ultimately success is guaranteed, it is really just a matter of degree.

As good as "compounding" is as a metaphor in describing the effect, it still probably doesn't do it justice as the phenomena is a "deepening" as well as a "growing".

The career long player thing is a big milestone. Phil Davis (thought he started at the Crows) played from conception to retirement. So a 6 year old kid who jumped on the Giants in 2012 is now turning 18 having watched Phil Davis that whole time. But also Phil Davis is one of the first of the past players who are critical element of a mature club.

 

[The Educator]

Rugby league has zero presence in the southern states, I've never seen one ball tossed backwards in anger in Melbourne in my life and I travel around the whole state for my job. On the other hand, football has a presence in nsw and in particular qld now and is a threat, that's why the constant jibes. It is weird though that the afl telecast partner in news.ltd basically mocks the afl through their northern papers and now through their national online news site. It's the one thing I miss about Demetriou, I don't think it would be happening under his watch. If I were Dillon or Goyder (it's too passive of a combination imo), I'd be ringing the editor in chief and asking them wtf is going on.

I honestly wouldn't have re signed with foxtel, Herald sun etc would still report on footy anyway, they can't afford not to, news.com.au the coverage would reduce, but it's already 80.20 in favour of nrl on there, so who cares. As I said Fairfax 9 support the game more than news do and they aren't even the broadcast partner. Foxtel would have almost gone under if they didn't get the afl rights, the coverage has been s**t for almost 2 years, they should have made them agree to more balanced coverage as part of the new tv deal, or gone elsewhere.



V'landy's is basically a trump, he lies again and again till people start to believe it, because news.ltd is on his side, just like fox news in the u.s. backed trump. The question is what's the best way to deal with it, do you go combative (I'd love Tony Cochrane as chairman of the afl, he is the best promoter around, he calls the nrl 'the great pretenders') or do you just continue to ignore him like the afl have been doing.

V'landy's gets zero media down here, only dedicated sports fans would know him, but now news national website is pushing him people might start to notice. I think at a minimum the afl need to trumpet they are winning in literally every key metric. I wonder if they still earn more than the NRL, football Australia and rugby Australia combined? I'd be clearing up all those things publically without addressing big mouth directly.

It's funny, the finals series showed the gap between the two sports is massive, but credit to big mouth, he has somehow turned that around to promote the little sport as the biggest in the country.

Liked your rant generally but I really don't think the AFL need to try to match V'Landy's foghorn. If anything it actually gives the bullshyt more credence

Even with the TV ratings, in addition to getting far more money over the next 4 years at least, the AFL with its extra "opening round" and thursday night games will pull back ahead on the silly "adding up the averages of games that go for different lengths" comparison. And now we also have reach being elevated to primary metric....

 

[weewilly]

Oh dear it looks like the Matildas WC success has not translated into more interest in the ALW as three of their crowds last
week drew only 901, 638 and 263 for a grand total of 1802.

Soccer in Australia is in a downward spiral and doubt none of those matches would turn a profit so more drain on the already stretched A League finances.

 

[The Educator]

Oh dear it looks like the Matildas WC success has not translated into more interest in the ALW as three of their crowds last
week drew only 901, 638 and 263 for a grand total of 1802.

Soccer in Australia is in a downward spiral and doubt none of those matches would turn a profit so more drain on the already stretched A League finances.

London to a brick those were gross inflations as well

 

[The_Wookie]

Oh dear it looks like the Matildas WC success has not translated into more interest in the ALW as three of their crowds last
week drew only 901, 638 and 263 for a grand total of 1802.

Stand alone ALW crowds are up nearly 100%, season ALW crowds up even more. But sure.