Play Nice 2024 Non AFL Crowds/Ratings and other Industry thread

[Cmarsh]

So an NRL club counted 9000 non paying juniors in its membership figures nearly doubling what it should have been. Article alludes to individual clubs and its executives setting membership rules. Pretty sure in the AFL the league sets a standardized criteria for who can be counted as a member.

‘We have a problem’: CEO says Tigers had been guilty of inflating membership numbers

‘Like a recovering alcoholic’: Tigers admit ‘we have a problem’ in damning membership reveal

www.google.com

 

[Bjo187]

So an NRL club counted 9000 non paying juniors in its membership figures nearly doubling what it should have been. Article alludes to individual clubs and its executives setting membership rules. Pretty sure in the AFL the league sets a standardized criteria for who can be counted as a member.

‘We have a problem’: CEO says Tigers had been guilty of inflating membership numbers

‘Like a recovering alcoholic’: Tigers admit ‘we have a problem’ in damning membership reveal

www.google.com

I'm sure it happens a lot, even when you look at some of the crowd figures posted they look over inflated. Good on the new ceo for coming clean though.

 

[Cmarsh]

Australia's NRL in talks for 10-team US competition: report

Talks are under way to create an elite 10-team 'NRL America' competition as rugby league looks to broaden its footprint in the lucrative United States market, reports said Sunday.

www.rfi.fr

So what overseas strategy does the AFL have to counter all this? China was an abject failure.

 

[The Educator]

Australia's NRL in talks for 10-team US competition: report

Talks are under way to create an elite 10-team 'NRL America' competition as rugby league looks to broaden its footprint in the lucrative United States market, reports said Sunday.

www.rfi.fr

So what overseas strategy does the AFL have to counter all this? China was an abject failure.

The NRL is delusional if it thinks it is going to make significant gains in the US. To the extent it is successful at all, the AFL will just follow it in.

Pretty much nobody plays rugby league in the states. There might be a dozen teams at anyone time that play 2 month seasons. There are 50odd Aus football clubs in the states, some of which have more members than everyone playing in these RL competitions.

China was hardly an "abject failure". It was a once a year sojourn for two small clubs and apparently they were making money off it (and obviously Covid killed it in the end.

Ultimately the AFL's strategy is very clear. Continue to make inroads into NSW and QLD. The NRL chasing US fantasies just helps the AFL's cause

 

[Cmarsh]

The NRL is delusional if it thinks it is going to make significant gains in the US. To the extent it is successful at all, the AFL will just follow it in.

Pretty much nobody plays rugby league in the states. There might be a dozen teams at anyone time that play 2 month seasons. There are 50odd Aus football clubs in the states, some of which have more members than everyone playing in these RL competitions.

China was hardly an "abject failure". It was a once a year sojourn for two small clubs and apparently they were making money off it (and obviously Covid killed it in the end.

Ultimately the AFL's strategy is very clear. Continue to make inroads into NSW and QLD. The NRL chasing US fantasies just helps the AFL's cause

I'd love to hear your explanation of how the NRL going into the US somehow gives the AFL an advantage in NSW and QLD as ultimately the NRL are using the US as well as considering buying out the English superleague to expand it's overseas betting market interest. Extra revenue from this will be partly ploughed back into the game in Australia.

And if you thought the AFL were actually making
money from the China games then where are the plans to resume them?

 

[Bjo187]

I've always thought India is a more suitable place to go than any other.

Unlike the Chinese, they actually like sport, they have ovals, we have the connection in sport culture with them via cricket, famous Aussie cricketers can be used to promote the game there (warne would have been ideal, but maybe Ponting) and most importantly, there is a massive and growing Indian population now in Australia, which would be the main reason for the venture, to get them into the game locally. You do this via hosting some combines in India and bringing a few potential players out, like the American experiment.

I do agree with the educator, rugby league will have no success in the u.s, v'landy's doesn't understand American culture other than a holiday there, but if it does work it just means the afl can copy them at less cost. They should at least be calling on Lachlan Murdoch to put afl games on fox over there too, call him out on his obvious biased, it's why you need a pushy ceo.

Funnily enough last night there was the suns v cats game in 2011 on tv, it reminded me I was in Vegas at the time and the game was on every screen throughout the flamingo hotel, gaming areas, take away shops etc, I was shocked, I dunno who was doing the coverage back then though, how or why it was on American tv, but me and my mates were wrapped and telling everybody that would listen about the game.

 

[The Educator]

I'd love to hear your explanation of how the NRL going into the US somehow gives the AFL an advantage in NSW and QLD as ultimately the NRL are using the US as well as considering buying out the English superleague to expand it's overseas betting market interest. Extra revenue from this will be partly ploughed back into the game in Australia.

There won't be extra revenue to be "ploughed back into the game in Australia" from either anything they will get from America or any surplus from the Super League. Likely both will result in net outflow of money (certainly the ESL purchase if it were to occur).

The AFL are launching their season in NSW and QLD when there are (marginally) less NRL games on. Resources and energies directed outside of NSW and QLD by the NRL supports the AFL's very clear strategy of achieving national dominance.

And if you thought the AFL were actually making
money from the China games then where are the plans to resume them?

China was making Port Adelaide and St Kilda money. Marginal but it was something

You may have noticed that Australia's relationship with China has changed somewhat over the last few years?

Ultimately China was a limited initiative by a small club to improve its revenues. It has nothing of the grandiose delusions of the NRL's foray into the US

 

[Aussie in exile]

Australia's NRL in talks for 10-team US competition: report

Talks are under way to create an elite 10-team 'NRL America' competition as rugby league looks to broaden its footprint in the lucrative United States market, reports said Sunday.

www.rfi.fr

So what overseas strategy does the AFL have to counter all this? China was an abject failure.

I really hope that the AFL are not thinking of playing any more games in China with China's appalling human rights record.
They shouldn't have played them games before in my opinion.

 

[weewilly]

The NRL is delusional if it thinks it is going to make significant gains in the US. To the extent it is successful at all, the AFL will just follow it in.

Pretty much nobody plays rugby league in the states. There might be a dozen teams at anyone time that play 2 month seasons. There are 50odd Aus football clubs in the states, some of which have more members than everyone playing in these RL competitions.

China was hardly an "abject failure". It was a once a year sojourn for two small clubs and apparently they were making money off it (and obviously Covid killed it in the end.

Ultimately the AFL's strategy is very clear. Continue to make inroads into NSW and QLD. The NRL chasing US fantasies just helps the AFL's cause

The AFL strategy is 100% correct in spending money on growing the game in Australia esp the two northern states that have half the Nations population and still have enormous potential for growth.

 

[weewilly]

I really hope that the AFL are not thinking of playing any more games in China with China's appalling human rights record.
They shouldn't have played them games before in my opinion.

The China

I really hope that the AFL are not thinking of playing any more games in China with China's appalling human rights record.
They shouldn't have played them games before in my opinion.

The China experiment is dead in the water and with the Chinese economy tanking ATM there is not much potential for any worthwhile benefits for the AFL to be had in the future.

 

[Aussie in exile]

The China

The China experiment is dead in the water and with the Chinese economy tanking ATM there is not much potential for any worthwhile benefits for the AFL to be had in the future.

They should never have gone their in the first place in my opinion.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Oh dear it looks like the Matildas WC success has not translated into more interest in the ALW as three of their crowds last
week drew only 901, 638 and 263 for a grand total of 1802.

Soccer in Australia is in a downward spiral and doubt none of those matches would turn a profit so more drain on the already stretched A League finances.

Ratings are still strong. likely another Olympics is incoming

The ALW is there for the Tillies.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The 'profitability' of any NRL venture will be in part pushed up by a few thousand Australians flying over for the novelty and a chance/reason to see Vegas, surely that will drop off year by year as a fair chuck of the people who would do it as a once-in-a-lifetime experience tick it off in year one. A similar novelty happened in the AFL games in Wellington, the Australian travellers dropped off year-by-year and the canned it after three years. At least everyone involved in that venture understood why it was happening, Wellington City Countil understood it was simply to get that tourist dollars and make Wellington a tourist link to Australia who otherwise only travel to Auckland or the South Island.

The talk about it becoming a major wagering sport is just ridiculous, they don't make any product fee money like they do in Australia, the sport isn't big enough for data rights to make them any money, and Americans having a wagering interest in a sport that they don't understand won't come about, people don't just wager on things they don't understand. Any money made from wagering will be nominal and not worth the effort.

And even if it seems to be a success, as other people have pointed out, the opportunity cost doesn't seem to be worth it, so if it is a moderate success, what's not to be said that the use of networks, investment, effort, couldn't have otherwise done good things fo the NRL?

I'm sure if the AFL put in similar effort to play a game in America, they could have gotten similar returns in terms of promotion, and getting it broadcast on a major sports network's main channel. But they don't, simply because it's a better run organisation that correctly understands that's not the best use of the effort put in.

 

[Bjo187]

The 'profitability' of any NRL venture will be in part pushed up by a few thousand Australians flying over for the novelty and a chance/reason to see Vegas, surely that will drop off year by year as a fair chuck of the people who would do it as a once-in-a-lifetime experience tick it off in year one. A similar novelty happened in the AFL games in Wellington, the Australian travellers dropped off year-by-year and the canned it after three years. At least everyone involved in that venture understood why it was happening, Wellington City Countil understood it was simply to get that tourist dollars and make Wellington a tourist link to Australia who otherwise only travel to Auckland or the South Island.

The talk about it becoming a major wagering sport is just ridiculous, they don't make any product fee money like they do in Australia, the sport isn't big enough for data rights to make them any money, and Americans having a wagering interest in a sport that they don't understand won't come about, people don't just wager on things they don't understand. Any money made from wagering will be nominal and not worth the effort.

And even if it seems to be a success, as other people have pointed out, the opportunity cost doesn't seem to be worth it, so if it is a moderate success, what's not to be said that the use of networks, investment, effort, couldn't have otherwise done good things fo the NRL?

I'm sure if the AFL put in similar effort to play a game in America, they could have gotten similar returns in terms of promotion, and getting it broadcast on a major sports network's main channel. But they don't, simply because it's a better run organisation that correctly understands that's not the best use of the effort put in.

Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and the afl were going to Vegas and hoping to crack the u.s market, the mocking and criticism from the Sydney media and news.ltd through both their state and national news outlets. It would be an absolute free for all. It just shows the Sydney centric/nrl biased that the afl are battling against, that somehow this is being reported as a fantastic initiative coz their darling pvl and nrl are doing it.

On another note, I actually think this is a good thing for the afl, I'm sure the nrl have pulled money outta grassroots in nsw and qld to pay for this, it's why qrl and nswrl and suing the nrl, the afl can take advantage in the meantime. I honestly feel they don't understand the market either, if you've been to times square you'd know there are barely any locals there, mostly international tourists, they'd see a ball and not know or care what it is. The same with using Russell Crowe and gloating he has 2 million followers, if the afl ever went there they could use Hemsworth with his 58 million followers, the most of any Australian.

 

[The Educator]

The 'profitability' of any NRL venture will be in part pushed up by a few thousand Australians flying over for the novelty and a chance/reason to see Vegas, surely that will drop off year by year as a fair chuck of the people who would do it as a once-in-a-lifetime experience tick it off in year one. A similar novelty happened in the AFL games in Wellington, the Australian travellers dropped off year-by-year and the canned it after three years. At least everyone involved in that venture understood why it was happening, Wellington City Countil understood it was simply to get that tourist dollars and make Wellington a tourist link to Australia who otherwise only travel to Auckland or the South Island.

The talk about it becoming a major wagering sport is just ridiculous, they don't make any product fee money like they do in Australia, the sport isn't big enough for data rights to make them any money, and Americans having a wagering interest in a sport that they don't understand won't come about, people don't just wager on things they don't understand. Any money made from wagering will be nominal and not worth the effort.

And even if it seems to be a success, as other people have pointed out, the opportunity cost doesn't seem to be worth it, so if it is a moderate success, what's not to be said that the use of networks, investment, effort, couldn't have otherwise done good things fo the NRL?

I'm sure if the AFL put in similar effort to play a game in America, they could have gotten similar returns in terms of promotion, and getting it broadcast on a major sports network's main channel. But they don't, simply because it's a better run organisation that correctly understands that's not the best use of the effort put in.

This is very well put.

Another thing to note is the NRL games start on the West Coast late night and are done by 7am on the east coast. Absolute absurdity they will be gaining any sustained traction.

Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and the afl were going to Vegas and hoping to crack the u.s market, the mocking and criticism from the Sydney media and news.ltd through both their state and national news outlets. It would be an absolute free for all. It just shows the Sydney centric/nrl biased that the afl are battling against, that somehow this is being reported as a fantastic initiative coz their darling pvl and nrl are doing it.

Hadn't thought of that. It would be unhinged!

On another note, I actually think this is a good thing for the afl, I'm sure the nrl have pulled money outta grassroots in nsw and qld to pay for this, it's why qrl and nswrl and suing the nrl, the afl can take advantage in the meantime.

I suspect they have set up to break even initially.

The real reason the ARL has frozen the NSWRL and QRL funding at pre covid levels (despite the marginally increase in tv money and massive increase in gambling money), and they are sueing, is because of the historically stupid decision to have a club funding model that is 130% of the player salaries.

It basically means that, whenever a CBA is being negotiated, the NRL is pitted against the players and clubs in unison. It is in the clubs interest for the players to get paid as much as possible because they will get 30% of that for themselves.

V'Landys has basically caved to his most powerful stakeholders - media, clubs and players - at the expense of everyone and everything else.

This thing aint gonna end well at all

 

[2 eazy]

The crowd size won't be important in Vegas it's amount of gambling dollars they can attract and subscriptions to nrl league pass apparently 0.5% of the USA population is what nrl aiming for

 

[Bjo187]

The crowd size won't be important in Vegas it's amount of gambling dollars they can attract and subscriptions to nrl league pass apparently 0.5% of the USA population is what nrl aiming for

So one in every 200 Americans are gonna sign up to nrl league pass? Lol.

 

[The Educator]

So one in every 200 Americans is gonna sign up to nrl league pass? Lol.

Yup, the delusion levels are mind-blowing

 

[Cmarsh]

So one in every 200 Americans are gonna sign up to nrl league pass? Lol.

In fairness the grandiose delusions amongst some AFL fans were happening at the time the AFL entered China, the whole "if only we could capture 1% of the population" bs.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and the afl were going to Vegas and hoping to crack the u.s market, the mocking and criticism from the Sydney media and news.ltd through both their state and national news outlets. It would be an absolute free for all. It just shows the Sydney centric/nrl biased that the afl are battling against, that somehow this is being reported as a fantastic initiative coz their darling pvl and nrl are doing it.

Thought of your post upon seeing this interview on 7News Sydney this evening, not long after you had posted this.

 

[Bjo187]

In fairness the grandiose delusions amongst some AFL fans were happening at the time the AFL entered China, the whole "if only we could capture 1% of the population" bs.

I don't remember that, but if the theory holds up we should put a team in Tokyo .

Thought of your post upon seeing this interview on 7News Sydney this evening, not long after you had posted this.

This bloke does more media than just about anyone in Australia. Loves the attention. I suppose though when you're the media darling it makes it a lot easier, it's free promotion for the sport.

On the other hand nobody would know Goyder if he walked past them in the street.

 

[The Educator]

In fairness the grandiose delusions amongst some AFL fans were happening at the time the AFL entered China, the whole "if only we could capture 1% of the population" bs.

• Nobody said that.
• Most AFL fans were reflexively negative.
• There may have been the odd "it would only need to get .0001% of the population etc"
• As highlighted earlier, it was a mid season game between 2 low drawing clubs (as opposed to the Grand season opening double header)

 

[Rob]

The crowd size won't be important in Vegas it's amount of gambling dollars they can attract and subscriptions to nrl league pass apparently 0.5% of the USA population is what nrl aiming for

Haha close to 2 million subscribers from the US alone? They would be doing very very well to get 50,000.

 

[The Educator]

Haha close to 2 million subscribers from the US alone? They would be doing very very well to get 50,000.

50,000 watch NRL subscribers would indeed be a hugely positive outcome.....roughly worth about $10M a year

Currently there are 3,000 subscribers

 

[Aussie in exile]

The AFL strategy is 100% correct in spending money on growing the game in Australia esp the two northern states that have half the Nations population and still have enormous potential for growth.

Yes 100% correct.
The AFL wants to remain a local competition, and not over stretch itself.
It wants to stay in it's comfort zone.