Training 2024 Preseason training reports and discussion

[Section 5]

Regarding Rayner.
The role Rayner has been playing does not allow for him to get super involved in a game.
Unless that role changes, he will be stuck on that middle tier possession wise each game.
Starting from 2023 his average year possessions per game: 14.2, 14.7, 9.8, 9.5, 13.5
Should he be able to increase that to 18 in 2024 with a slight role change that would be a decent improvement.
Cam is about to play his 7th season missing a year with an ACL.

It took DeGoey 7 years to break the 20-possession average jumping from 13.5 the previous year.
His Averages : 23.9, 20.8, 21, 13.5, 16.8, 16.1, 18.9, 18.2, 13.9.

 

[Dalions]

Regarding Rayner.
The role Rayner has been playing does not allow for him to get super involved in a game.
Unless that role changes, he will be stuck on that middle tier possession wise each game.
Starting from 2023 his average year possessions per game: 14.2, 14.7, 9.8, 9.5, 13.5
Should he be able to increase that to 18 in 2024 with a slight role change that would be a decent improvement.
Cam is about to play his 7th season missing a year with an ACL.

It took DeGoey 7 years to break the 20-possession average jumping from 13.5 the previous year.
His Averages : 23.9, 20.8, 21, 13.5, 16.8, 16.1, 18.9, 18.2, 13.9.

It feels to me DeGoey has always played more inside than Cam ever has.
But if we could get Cam up to 18-22 possession per game, Happy days!

 

[Section 5]

It feels to me DeGoey has always played more inside than Cam ever has.
But if we could get Cam up to 18-22 possession per game, Happy days!

DeGoey has played more inside the last 3 years when i watched the Pies play.
But he is still that fwd/midfield mix player.
So, i used him as some sort of comparison even though he has a much better overall record to Cam during his first 6 seasons.

I am just hoping out number 1 draft pick actually makes a jump up in possession numbers.
I know a lot on BF don't put much faith in possession numbers, but it is a good indication of a player's involvement in a game.
More involvement in the way Cam can impact a game will be beneficial to the side.

 

[martinson]

DeGoey has played more inside the last 3 years when i watched the Pies play.
But he is still that fwd/midfield mix player.
So, i used him as some sort of comparison even though he has a much better overall record to Cam during his first 6 seasons.

I am just hoping out number 1 draft pick actually makes a jump up in possession numbers.
I know a lot on BF don't put much faith in possession numbers, but it is a good indication of a player's involvement in a game.
More involvement in the way Cam can impact a game will be beneficial to the side.

Overall being No 1 pick and people talking about how good he's going to be hasn't been much help to Cam.

This year he looks super fit , he's always been enthusiastic and wears his heart on his sleeve a bit , he's not far off being a reliable consistent contributor with some more involvement in the game and that's all I'm hoping for.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

 

[Tassie4ever]

You've put your finger on it there Dalions. Just can't quite get clean possession when he's in the perfect spot to do so.

He tends to go at it at the same tempo all the time when he doesn't always need to. And then often has more time than he thinks in his haste to offload it.

He's been the same for a while now. I'm sure Lachie could help him out with some intense practice . Lachie's slower and less imposing physically but always seems to have more time.

I know these pro footballers have unlimited medical resources on tap but for years I've wondered whether Rayner has an eyesight problem.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[Section 5]

Overall being No 1 pick and people talking about how good he's going to be hasn't been much help to Cam.

This year he looks super fit , he's always been enthusiastic and wears his heart on his sleeve a bit , he's not far off being a reliable consistent contributor with some more involvement in the game and that's all I'm hoping for.

Fans may have expected more from our number 1 draft pick but overall, i think he was a good choice for the club.
Just looking from the outside his obvious cheerful manner would have been good for the group over the years.
You need all sorts of player personalities to have a successful football club.
We have basically kept the players we wanted to retain over the last 7 seasons, and this is super important.
I would like to see more improvement from Cam and i am hopeful that will come in 2024.

 

[martinson]

Fans may have expected more from our number 1 draft pick but overall, i think he was a good choice for the club.
Just looking from the outside his obvious cheerful manner would have been good for the group over the years.
You need all sorts of player personalities to have a successful football club.
We have basically kept the players we wanted to retain over the last 7 seasons, and this is super important.
I would like to see more improvement from Cam and i am hopeful that will come in 2024.

I'm in exactly the same boat. It's time to stop pinning our hopes and dreams on him dominating games. We have a lot of good young players. Comparing him to De Goey or Martin is unrealistic and the GF showed how wide that gulf is.

But he's been loyal ,obviously a great clubman , he's a good player who can get better. And the way he got himself fit after his ACL showed resilience . You need a lot of that to be a great AFL player.

 

[twhowler]

Watching Rayner the past couple of years, i feel as though the more he is involved the better for us. he doesn't have perfect possession but it's pretty good. some of his work inside 50 is awesome - little handballs to advantage under pressure, spearing balls to a target. he is a bit of a high risk / high reward player with ball in hand. when he makes errors, without having stats on this, they don't tend to be really short kicks that are cut off and leave us out of position. he goes pretty long and aggresive.

he seems fitter. it was a very hot day. it seems he is playing a lot of mid minutes, and if that means by season proper he can do a 60/40 mix of mid forward i think that would be perfect. there is space in there with no will. and with gardiner as the third target it doesn't hurt our forward line

I was deeply skeptical of Gardiner as a forward. i think it might work. he seems to have surprisingly good instincts on when to lead up. and i think adds something as a key forward willing to roll up his sleeves, tackle etc. decent set shot albeit just missed a couple

not getting carried away with pre season after last year. blues could be missing walsh, weitering, silvagni, cerra at least. that's a lot. and only had one extra week of pre season. going to be a long season with OR so if we can be 2-0 and get a week off would be an awesome start

 

[Elixuh]

Damn, hearing Fagan say I’m the reason for the teams success is really uplifting.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Just noticed Fish is saying that Cam Rayner was a "standout" again, as a pure midfielder >

CAM Rayner has given Brisbane coach Chris Fagan a good selection headache ahead of Opening Round after a standout showing as a pure midfielder against Gold Coast on Thursday night.

Rayner gives Lions selection headache as Charlie blitzes Suns

I thought he was quite good but a standout , what do others think?

Just came on to post there was a big pump up in today’s CM also on Cam’s game.

We’ve said many times that he could be the one that gives us that point of difference we need through the middle. I am looking forward to seeing him playing there more often this year, however I didn’t think he stood out last night above anyone else though.

Are we all wrong on here and the “experts” have it right?

Yeah I agree with the BigFooty experts above Cam was good but let's just hold our horses on words like "standout". If you were looking for a standout from last night it was Harris Andrews. Clunked pretty much everything, which we sort of take for granted now after last year, but his kicking also seems to have improved and if he is able to bite off those aggressive 45⁰ kicks into the corridor, it makes us extremely dangerous coming out of our back half.

I was deeply skeptical of Gardiner as a forward. i think it might work. he seems to have surprisingly good instincts on when to lead up. and i think adds something as a key forward willing to roll up his sleeves, tackle etc. decent set shot albeit just missed a couple

I'm more sceptical about Gardiner as a forward after last night, which I guess is not too surprising given he only played against the B team defence in the intra club games. He seems to read the play and get to good positions a lot of the time, but last night I thought he got beaten one on one more often than not.

I do still think there is scope for him to play as a defensive forward tho, on guys like Lever, Weitering, Stewart, Moore etc. I think that role will be a better match for his skillset and his general approach to footy.

not getting carried away with pre season after last year. blues could be missing walsh, weitering, silvagni, cerra at least. that's a lot. and only had one extra week of pre season. going to be a long season with OR so if we can be 2-0 and get a week off would be an awesome start

I really thought we looked a bit underdone in our intra club games, so was preparing to struggle in the opening rounds of the season. 1-4 would have been a poor start but I was prepared to accept 2-3 on the proviso that things would be looking up after, say, a brave loss to Melbourne in Round 5.

There's only so much you can glean from preseason matches but I was really surprised and impressed with lots of aspects of our play last night. To the point where I'd now expect us to be able to win at least 3 of our first 5. Where exactly those 3 wins come from will depend partly on how our opponents are travelling at those times, but I think that would put us in a decent position.

The big watch for me will still be how is our effort and intensity in Round 1, regardless of the result. We haven't had a great Round 1 result since 2019, and while you would think that would be motivation enough, until I see it I'll remain a bit dubious/concerned.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Damn, hearing Fagan say I’m the reason for the teams success is really uplifting.

Especially this era, it makes me really proud to be members of my footy club again since the early 00s especially the amount of hardship and damage the club has been through between then and now while supporting them as a kid.

 

[twhowler]

Yeah I agree with the BigFooty experts above Cam was good but let's just hold our horses on words like "standout". If you were looking for a standout from last night it was Harris Andrews. Clunked pretty much everything, which we sort of take for granted now after last year, but his kicking also seems to have improved and if he is able to bite off those aggressive 45⁰ kicks into the corridor, it makes us extremely dangerous coming out of our back half.



I'm more sceptical about Gardiner as a forward after last night, which I guess is not too surprising given he only played against the B team defence in the intra club games. He seems to read the play and get to good positions a lot of the time, but last night I thought he got beaten one on one more often than not.

I do still think there is scope for him to play as a defensive forward tho, on guys like Lever, Weitering, Stewart, Moore etc. I think that role will be a better match for his skillset and his general approach to footy.



I really thought we looked a bit underdone in our intra club games, so was preparing to struggle in the opening rounds of the season. 1-4 would have been a poor start but I was prepared to accept 2-3 on the proviso that things would be looking up after, say, a brave loss to Melbourne in Round 5.

There's only so much you can glean from preseason matches but I was really surprised and impressed with lots of aspects of our play last night. To the point where I'd now expect us to be able to win at least 3 of our first 5. Where exactly those 3 wins come from will depend partly on how our opponents are travelling at those times, but I think that would put us in a decent position.

The big watch for me will still be how is our effort and intensity in Round 1, regardless of the result. We haven't had a great Round 1 result since 2019, and while you would think that would be motivation enough, until I see it I'll remain a bit dubious/concerned.

Interesting re gardiner. Last night was my first glimpse of it. I was surprised how much of a forward he looked like with his patterns more than anything.

Thinking back to round 1s:

2019 - great although started terribly!
2020 - terrible but weird feeling about to lock down, mulligan for effort
2021 - poor. Got ahead of ourselves
2022 - not too bad, port came out firing, we hung in, probably lucky they got injuries.
2023 - awful

The upside for me there is only one genuinely bad performance at home. And that was against a swans side with debutants who turned out to be guns and a team that got to the granny

 

[martinson]

Interesting re gardiner. Last night was my first glimpse of it. I was surprised how much of a forward he looked like with his patterns more than anything.

Thinking back to round 1s:

2019 - great although started terribly!
2020 - terrible but weird feeling about to lock down, mulligan for effort
2021 - poor. Got ahead of ourselves
2022 - not too bad, port came out firing, we hung in, probably lucky they got injuries.
2023 - awful

The upside for me there is only one genuinely bad performance at home. And that was against a swans side with debutants who turned out to be guns and a team that got to the granny

I reckon we'll smash the Blues..

Repeat of the Prelim. They'll come out with all guns blazing and then it'll get too hard as we get our game going.

 

[FFB1]

Especially this era, it makes me really proud to be members of my footy club again since the early 00s especially the amount of hardship and damage the club has been through between then and now while supporting them as a kid.

Almost went to my odds and ends drawer to find the 2024 platinum member hat pin, and think about how much the club values me. But I didn’t and instead went and stared at the sticker on the car.

 

[BuntonRules]

If yer looking for a breakout player, yer should look at Darcy Willmot.

 

[Ad Astra]

I know these pro footballers have unlimited medical resources on tap but for years I've wondered whether Rayner has an eyesight problem.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

Yeah I thought that a bit too. Wonder if he wears contacts.

 

[Nathan Barley]

If yer looking for a breakout player, yer should look at Darcy Willmot.

All Australian

 

[martinson]

All Australian

Happy for all the talk of what Cam is going to do but to me Wilmot and Coleman have exceptional talent and the poise to go with it. Fletcher's of a similar ilk , might take another year or two. Then we have Ashcroft who was already a gun in his first year.

But of course we'd love a robust explosive midfielder in the Petracca ,De Goey ilk and maybe Cam can bring some of that which would just about get us over the line for a flag.

 

[Pride of lions]

Watching the reserves and fringe players in the last two quarters last night was pretty disappointing I thought. Ah Chee was like a class above, none of the rest of them showed any sign that they were ready to play senior football any time soon. We are so lucky that we have picked up Ashcroft and Fletcher (and hopefully Ashcroft 2) as father/sons because there isn’t much else to be excited about amongst the draftees from the last couple of years. Tunstill looks like he could turn into a good midfielder but apart from him the cupboard looks pretty bare. Hopefully the 2023 crop provides a couple of decent players.

 

[Gadzorks]

Yeah I agree with the BigFooty experts above Cam was good but let's just hold our horses on words like "standout". If you were looking for a standout from last night it was Harris Andrews. Clunked pretty much everything, which we sort of take for granted now after last year, but his kicking also seems to have improved and if he is able to bite off those aggressive 45⁰ kicks into the corridor, it makes us extremely dangerous coming out of our back half.



I'm more sceptical about Gardiner as a forward after last night, which I guess is not too surprising given he only played against the B team defence in the intra club games. He seems to read the play and get to good positions a lot of the time, but last night I thought he got beaten one on one more often than not.

I do still think there is scope for him to play as a defensive forward tho, on guys like Lever, Weitering, Stewart, Moore etc. I think that role will be a better match for his skillset and his general approach to footy.



I really thought we looked a bit underdone in our intra club games, so was preparing to struggle in the opening rounds of the season. 1-4 would have been a poor start but I was prepared to accept 2-3 on the proviso that things would be looking up after, say, a brave loss to Melbourne in Round 5.

There's only so much you can glean from preseason matches but I was really surprised and impressed with lots of aspects of our play last night. To the point where I'd now expect us to be able to win at least 3 of our first 5. Where exactly those 3 wins come from will depend partly on how our opponents are travelling at those times, but I think that would put us in a decent position.

The big watch for me will still be how is our effort and intensity in Round 1, regardless of the result. We haven't had a great Round 1 result since 2019, and while you would think that would be motivation enough, until I see it I'll remain a bit dubious/concerned.

I missed the mark by a massive amount - I thought Cam's disposal was very ordinary, along with failed fend off that wasn't necessary.

Was NOT expecting headlines of Cam best on ground.

Shows how much I know

 

[Lazza16]

Yeah I agree with the BigFooty experts above Cam was good but let's just hold our horses on words like "standout". If you were looking for a standout from last night it was Harris Andrews. Clunked pretty much everything, which we sort of take for granted now after last year, but his kicking also seems to have improved and if he is able to bite off those aggressive 45⁰ kicks into the corridor, it makes us extremely dangerous coming out of our back half.



I'm more sceptical about Gardiner as a forward after last night, which I guess is not too surprising given he only played against the B team defence in the intra club games. He seems to read the play and get to good positions a lot of the time, but last night I thought he got beaten one on one more often than not.

I do still think there is scope for him to play as a defensive forward tho, on guys like Lever, Weitering, Stewart, Moore etc. I think that role will be a better match for his skillset and his general approach to footy.



I really thought we looked a bit underdone in our intra club games, so was preparing to struggle in the opening rounds of the season. 1-4 would have been a poor start but I was prepared to accept 2-3 on the proviso that things would be looking up after, say, a brave loss to Melbourne in Round 5.

There's only so much you can glean from preseason matches but I was really surprised and impressed with lots of aspects of our play last night. To the point where I'd now expect us to be able to win at least 3 of our first 5. Where exactly those 3 wins come from will depend partly on how our opponents are travelling at those times, but I think that would put us in a decent position.

The big watch for me will still be how is our effort and intensity in Round 1, regardless of the result. We haven't had a great Round 1 result since 2019, and while you would think that would be motivation enough, until I see it I'll remain a bit dubious/concerned.

5 -0 no worries GH

 

[Thomasno]

He was certainly up there with Dunkley and Hugh. But yeah, anyone hoping he suddenly flicks a switch and plays like 2021 Petracca need to temper their expectations a tad.

I’ve put a few dollars on him for the Brownlow already at $501. Balls in your court Cameron, if you don’t win it you’ll be receiving a very sternly worded letter asking for my $2 back.

 

[Thomasno]

Happy for all the talk of what Cam is going to do but to me Wilmot and Coleman have exceptional talent and the poise to go with it. Fletcher's of a similar ilk , might take another year or two. Then we have Ashcroft who was already a gun in his first year.

But of course we'd love a robust explosive midfielder in the Petracca ,De Goey ilk and maybe Cam can bring some of that which would just about get us over the line for a flag.

Could not agree more, Coleman and Wilmot are both extremely talented and have some of the best footy nous we’ve had in a long while. Both very quick decision makers too, which is exactly what we need off the half back to utilise our advantage up forward.

 

[the rookie]

I didnt manage to get through the full game, fell asleep on the couch somewhere in the 5th I think. But seemed like a pretty standard pre-season game in way too hot and steamy conditions. Im not going to pay too much attention to some of the really bad ball use at times as even good ball users were spraying it everywhere - especially as the game got late and players were wilting.

Main thoughts:

• Tunstill impressed me. I wasnt convinced before but think he has given himself every shot at an early wing spot - suspect he will start while Dev is injured
• Lyons showed he can still play well but running will always be the concern. I still see him as only playing when Neale or Dunkley arent
• Gardiner forward looks like it could work. Shows that bit of mongrel and very different style to Hipwood and Joe. We could be too similar in our talls if Ryan plays with them

I agree. I had Tunstill near BOG. Some of the commentary called Rayner when it was, in fact, Tunstill. His running was good, hands clean and tackling brilliant. Couple of questions on disposal, but I suspect that is confidence. He could have been more aggressive. Overall, I think he's jumped right up the cue. Played wing, mid, forward and back as well.