Autopsy 2024 Rd 21 Carlton vs Collingwood 3 point loss - is our season over?

[BlueBayou]

"Back in form", if that was true, we would've won this game. Easily. But the reality is - we only played for one quarter, like we did the past month. That's not good form. That's shit form.

That is exactly my point.

The last quarter was a re-establshment of early season form.


we lost because of 3 posters, bad umpiring, and ruck non-dominance

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Chin up, mate

At the end of the day we are playing some good football but obviously not for long enough, and not enough minimising goal leakage when the game isn’t being baked don our terms

Maybe we need some media pressure on Voss ala beverdige Hinkley - seems to have worked for the dogs and power

In other words,

Nothing has changed in the last 3 years.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Brutal

 

[Blue1980]

Questions we were asking after game

Have any players improved this year?
Do we believe we are a Top 4 list?
Have sides worked us out? Seems to me they now take us on and out run us especially on the spread.
Are we fit enough?
Is Leg speed an issue?
Why have we carried so many injury prone players for so long?
Why are our skills so bad?
Is our development good enough? Why are we giving so many average players longer term contracts or extensions?


I honestly don’t know the answers

1. Players, improved. Maybe Boyd? Gov maybe his best season? TDK too.
2. No, it relies way too much on stars alligning. Namely a bunch of very injury prone players all fit and firing at the same time.
3. Yes, plus we just aren't that good.
4. No, combo of injury prone players and shitty strength and conditioning
5. Yes, you saw tonight pies players always on the move. We are so easy to slice through, and when we have the ball we are slow and stagnant (playing like we are afraid to lose now, with confidence now low)
6. Yes, though that was on the back of them helping us second half of last season. We rolled the dice again, hasn't worked. Cuners, Marchy and Martin will all be gone. Plus Williams, who I really like is a player, but is a bust as he isn't available enough. Cerra looks like another one with massive issues.
7. We play best when we play high octane footy, but its obviously too taxing for this group any good for more than half a season. Also we overcompensate all the time. One thing in our game fails, like our defence, we double down on defence then can't move the ball. Early in the year, want to get our turnover game going, we get smashed in the midfield etc.
8. I don't think development is too bad, we are extracting a fair bit out of some fringe types, rookie/mid season draft types. Main issue is the perma-injured guys, meaning when we have a normal injury run, its like a crisis, as we have 5 guys always injured anyway.

On top of this I would be laying betts Charlie isn't fully right, Walsh's back is causing him problems and tonight Harry was getting over his ahem "virus" tonight.

Owies not showing we should give him anything aside from a minimum contract and Motlop worth persisting with but still a fair way off it.

 

[Thrawn]

That is exactly my point.

The last quarter was a re-establshment of early season form.


we lost because of 3 posters, bad umpiring, and ruck non-dominance

It shouldn't have got to that though.

We didn't re-establish anything, we just threw the kitchen sink at a tiring side... taking the game on when we should've done that earlier. This is a pattern that we've seen time and time again.

I'll wait for re-establishing after we actually win and show continual form, not one quarter spurts that's left for too little too late.

 

[Blue1980]

We had 7 players in the top 10 for disposals. We had 4 players with 30+ touches. We know how to get the ball, but we do not know how to use it well.

Tale as old as time really...

Add to that our inability to run and link up - instead opting for a long kick down the line at basically every opportunity.

Hardly anyone bothers to make a genuine effort to run into space. Then when they do - it's a half-hearted jog with a Pie on their backside, which just clogs up space.

It's very, very easy to defend against our ball movement.

The stats mean **** all from tonight. I am not sure what Voss has said, but if anyone is circle jerking about us generating chances and winning more of the ball etc, they are lying to themselves and just trying to put a positive spin on things.

We were thoroughly outplayed for 3.5 quarters and lucky to be within striking distance at all.

 

[ZabsBlues]

They’ve done a shit load more than us this century.

So, **** em.

 

[BlueBayou]

It shouldn't have got to that though.

We didn't re-establish anything, we just threw the kitchen sink at a tiring side... taking the game on when we should've done that earlier. This is a pattern that we've seen time and time again.

I'll wait for re-establishing after we actually win and show continual form, not one quarter spurts that's left for too little too late.

Dont disagree. But I thought they may change a mindset (which is the difference) following that last qtr.
Crippa nearly won it by himself
Just needed a couple of mates, the Holland boys fit the bill.

 

[Coops93]

Know for a fact vossy made the players watch the 2022 loss this week…he gets it…but he can’t coach…we have a poor list…

I think he's the motivation type coach, not tactician.

Not an astounding take I know, it's been said a million times by now, but we need to surround him with the extra good tactical types. I don't think we've done that, we still seem limited in the coaches box.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

That is exactly my point.

The last quarter was a re-establshment of early season form.


we lost because of 3 posters, bad umpiring, and ruck non-dominance

You do realise the Pies had a few posters too right?

We lost because:

1) We were stupidly taking shots from the arc in the first quarter, leading to so many wasted opportunities and behinds
2) We kicked very inaccurately at goal for majority of the night
3) We played safe, precautionary football in the 2nd and 3rd quarter
4) So many dumb decisions being made (Ollie trying to pinpoint a pass to Gov who was surrounded by 3 Pies, Walsh on a multitude of occasions etc)
4) We left our decision to play daring football too late
5) Harry and Charlie combined couldn't even kick 1 goal from an i50 mark
6) Pitto being as useful as pockets on a singlet

 

[Blue1980]

Ffs he’s a skinny 2nd year player, and his attack on the ball over 4/4, disposal and gut run is already way ahead of 3/4 of our list. That kid should not be one under any scrutiny. We’d be ****ed without those hollands boys, they both really bring it to our side. Take aim at Some of our older heads that are continually gifted games despite being inconsistent.

I like Ollie, he will get there. He is just an undersized kid who busts a gut. Because we have no other good wingers except Acres he probably gets more games than he would at most AFL sides for his current level.

 

[Blue1980]

I remember listning to craig mcraesaying how important the carlton game was for them everytime as a club. They let the fans talk to the players about how much the rivalry means to them. I just dont know if Voss understands it like that, or if it does then it just doesnt mean enough to him

We are afraid of making a big deal of it, in case we lose, which we inevitably do anyway.

It means more to them than us, its obvious.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Yep. I’ll add Kemp, Ollie and Kennedy to that list. Kennedy sub was a mistake - again. So important when he is in the midfield.

No Weiters??? Was massive in the last quarter ... hearing the Pies supporters cry about how he's everywhere and marking everything was quite satisifying...

 

[Wickzki]

you’d think ollie hollands is a back pocket player going off his heat map every week

It's what happens when he's one of the few we have that will go both ways.

He may be more ineffective than we'd like - due to his physical stature and need to build himself up - but the work ethic is there and he's a two-way runner.

 

[Blue1980]

Said last week. We have been stagnant for the last 5 weeks. Long bombs down the line to contest.

Said we needed to go back to attacking and taking the game on. We do that for half a qtr and we nearly win.

Seriously has looked like a Malthouse game plan with our shitty high kicks down the wing.

Release the shackles and let the boys attack all out and play on instant for the rest of the year.

It reminded me of the turgid shit when we lost 8 out of 9 this year. We were inaccurate because we were so stagnant, slow and afraid. Then taking shots on weird angles and under pressure.

 

[Blue1980]

That is exactly my point.

The last quarter was a re-establshment of early season form.


we lost because of 3 posters, bad umpiring, and ruck non-dominance

We had a good quarter in the 4th V GWS, 3rd v north and 2nd v Port. The pattern is we simply aren't good enough to do it for longer.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Good thing we didn't drop Kemp...

So much for Cox, Cameron, Frampton, McStay and Howe dominating him...

Hell... Cox kicked 2 goals... one from being paid a mark by one ump while being called play on by another... and a BS free for falling back onto Newman

Oh and McStay kicked one... LOL

 

[Blue1980]

I think he's the motivation type coach, not tactician.

Not an astounding take I know, it's been said a million times by now, but we need to surround him with the extra good tactical types. I don't think we've done that, we still seem limited in the coaches box.

That is becoming painfully obvious. We go on these runs of bad form each year where we fall apart. Happened 2022, 2023 and happening now.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Numb….angry……disappointed

Season is in an absolute mess. I don’t think this group has the ability to come back from a loss like that…No Cerra No Cottrell

That might not be the worst thing, we won 5 in a row with both of them out.

Both have however been horribly mismanaged by our S&C/HP team.

 

[ctwenty1]

Kicking 1.8 in a quarter and being behind by 5 goals isn't "good football". Losing 4 of our last 5 isn't "good football". Losing to a team that was in terrible form the last month isn't "good football".

We are playing some good football

Just not enough atm

And not as much as compared to earlier

But it’s there I reckon we will pull it together

 

[BlueBayou]

Good thing we didn't drop Kemp...

So much for Cox, Cameron, Frampton, McStay and Howe dominating him...

Hell... Cox kicked 2 goals... one from being paid a mark by one ump while being called play on by another... and a BS free for falling back onto Newman

Oh and McStay kicked one... LOL

yep, game over

 

[ctwenty1]

Every time I read people saying Charlie will kick a bag, that he'll have a "breakout game", he performs well below that standard. So I'm going to put the reverse mozz on him - next week he will be shit and goalless.

Like this week ?

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

I remember listning to craig mcraesaying how important the carlton game was for them everytime as a club. They let the fans talk to the players about how much the rivalry means to them. I just dont know if Voss understands it like that, or if it does then it just doesnt mean enough to him

It means so much to Collingwood fans

Our board is mental about Carlton losing to anyone each week

We have a longstanding thread dedicated to Carlton (all of you can post and banter there - our mods rarely suspend Oppo fans)

Part of it is the GF losses of 70, 79, 81 (I stood at 79 and 81)

Part of it is we hated being mocked by Harris then Elliott

It is inter generational and our players understand

Is it deranged - a bit

It’s only a game, but not to the club

 

[Beyond Blue]

Good thing we didn't drop Kemp...

So much for Cox, Cameron, Frampton, McStay and Howe dominating him...

Hell... Cox kicked 2 goals... one from being paid a mark by one ump while being called play on by another... and a BS free for falling back onto Newman

Oh and McStay kicked one... LOL

He played within the team rules tonight. Not our worst by a long way. Same with another whipping boy favourite, Ollie Hollands, who really cracked in tonight.

The sad reality is a few of our best players were poor. Harry was well held by Frampton, Charlie was bad all night and Walsh who butchered the ball again for 3 quarters.

 

[Kruezing]

TDK the big out for me … from when he was playing banged up till when he got injured … we’ve gone backwards at a rate of knots … A Ruck combo of H and Crippa would be of more effect than what we have at the moment …