Autopsy 2024 Rd 21 Carlton vs Collingwood 3 point loss - is our season over?

[Opium]

Grabbed his back multiple times tonight. He’s not right.

Cerra's hammy looks buggered. Walsh has a potential career altering back injury. Both under 24 years of age is a disaster.

 

[DangerousD]

We talk about contest and pressure and we only laid 51 tackles for the game.

51 for a game isn’t bad on its own but we had 17 in the first quarter then dropped to 7 in the second

 

[AB_Blue]

No Weiters??? Was massive in the last quarter ... hearing the Pies supporters cry about how he's everywhere and marking everything was quite satisifying...

Wieters playing at CHB is much more satisfying than seeing him stuck inside 20 trying to get match ups right….he took intercept after intercept and basically stopped Collingwood forward movement on his own

He just needs a solid running mate to play FB

 

[jpfalvo]

Said last week. We have been stagnant for the last 5 weeks. Long bombs down the line to contest.

Said we needed to go back to attacking and taking the game on. We do that for half a qtr and we nearly win.

Seriously has looked like a Malthouse game plan with our shitty high kicks down the wing.

Release the shackles and let the boys attack all out and play on instant for the rest of the year.

Good to see the malthouse comment.

Been calling this out for 3 years.

Voss gameplan is outdated, not in line with modern footy. In the malthouse era, with less forward talent we continually called out this boring methodology...

Why are people so protective of Voss.

Since his first game, we have seen 1 quarter effort wins, and long down the line method.

We have seen us get overrun after building big leads. Form collapses ruining half of a season.

Year1, we said he needs time to get his onfield and offfield lists right.

Year2, Camp Curnow, led to back to basics gameplan and all of sudden we though it "clicked'

Year3, here we are again, same trends, same probems.

Is it not his team now, and total accountable for what is now delivered.

He is not a first time senior coach, he should be demanding high performance from his support team and players, otherwise he knows its his head on the chopping block.

Where is the fire and agro of his playing days?

Additional to this I see posters saying we are missing TDK as some sort of excuse.

TDK played the GWS, Dogs, north games and we delivered the same efforts and the team was underwhelming, unconvincing.

FWIW GWS and Dogs when we met them, were out of form, seasons on the line. So again posters suggesting we met the "form teams", well its revisionist history

TDK has played most of the year and our 1 quarter efforts still were there...

Its beyond 1 player.

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[DangerousD]

One of the worst takes and worst melts I’ve read here. I get as frustrated as anyone that he always wrestles and never leads but he was running everywhere today and has been doing cameos in the backline to stop momentum all year.
If you want to complain then complain about him not leading, but not getting ‘the easy cheap ones out the back’ which actually means he’s playing tall and small, the same thing we praised and will build a statue for Eddie betts for.

I’ve seen heaps of times this year, Charlie not even contesting a long ball when he was the target and just tracking to the back of the back, hoping it gets over the top.

Eddie Betts was a small forward, it was his job to stay down

 

[Juddrockz]

I've been extremely negative and meant every word but my lord Cripps is a superstar. I don't know how he keeps putting up with this shit.

Because he thrives for success unlike most of the rest of them,just along for the ride on his back.
Being at the game,you could see the writing was on the wall from the first bounce. Lacked confidence,playing scared and panicked every time we got near the ball.
Unfortunately we arent cut out for big final like games and cant handle the pressure,no confidence amongst the players at all anymore.
Just have to wonder what's caused the disappointing turn around?
We once were believers.

 

[DangerousD]

Just watched the last 2 minutes. Should Gov have even been taking that kick after clearly copping one in the head? He didn't look right and then that kick...

I’ve seen some blame the ump here, if Gov was injured, dazed, groggy, head thumping or whatever from a head knock, it’s on him to take the kick or not.

Put some responsibility on our players

 

[Juddrockz]

Know for a fact vossy made the players watch the 2022 loss this week…he gets it…but he can’t coach…we have a poor list…

Glad to see how it helped the players,not!? To come out and not give a yelp for 3 quarters and play one decent quarter again to get another honorable loss,somethings just not right at the club.

 

[sparkybagger]

I think many of our issues start with our defensive structures (or lack thereof). I have no clue what we are trying to do. If it's a zone intended to protect the corridor, opponents simply chip-kick their way down the wing before we lay a glove on them. Fly & Co recognised this resulting in the simplest of goals from a kick-in from full back.

Our talent (esp. Weiters, Cripps) is covering the massive deficiencies in our game plan. There are flashes of brilliance at times that create momentum and 4-5 goal runs (i.e., one quarter games) but this will get you where we are: middle of the road results from a very talented team.

 

[jooce8891]

I had my phone watching the doubles on 9gem, the moment they won gold gov took the mark. Honestly I just thought it had to be and gov would slot it in combination

 

[Stickitupthem]

I’m hoping cook uses his experience
To make some critical decisions no matter how unpopular they might be
Anyone in the stands can see what the issues are
He needs to act before this team gets burned and we lose our window

 

[Juddrockz]

Dont disagree. But I thought they may change a mindset (which is the difference) following that last qtr.
Crippa nearly won it by himself
Just needed a couple of mates, the Holland boys fit the bill.

That question needs to be asked though. WHY is it always left up to Crippa to try an carry the team across the line ala Juddy style?
No guts,no glory when we have so many passengers hanging off Crippa's coat tails.

 

[sosos]

I don’t get that at all. Our recruitment has been good in the last few years, but our contracts have been very bad.

No midfield speed, no decent kpd to help weiters, and no game breakers. I know it's hard to find them, but its been 4 or 5 years now since we shafted SOS.

Agree with you on the contracts. As you said, extensions for injury prone players, but also extensions for average footballers.

 

[tarczonandjane]

I disagree with takes which suggest we don’t learn and try to improve as a football club. Perhaps some of our efforts are more successful than others. And perhaps to an extent we have ended up having a large amount of issues to overcome because of where we were at. But some of the efforts at improving I can see are:

• identified lack of wings: brought in Blacres and Ollie Hollands
• identified lack of small forwards: brought in Fantasia to try and create competition for spots
• lack of turnover game: developed turnover game in 2024 preseason
• injury management: made mid season tweaks

I think in the AFL these days, it is hard to get changes in multiple areas at the same time. So it is about fixing a couple of areas of need. Every club is going to have holes in its list. That’s the nature of the comp. And if you’ve got holes in your list, it dictates the sort of game you can play.

Our problem is that the lack of pace and footskills dictates the type of footy we can play. We need to start addressing it in the offseason (Walshy posted a video of a guy called Xavier Lindsay who I would love to have on the list), because there is about to be a second iteration of this list when guys like Marchbank, Martin, and Cuningham are no longer on it.

Again, I’m confident the club will take steps to address it. integration of Billy Wilson and Cooper Lord into the seniors in 2025 might offer some advantages along these lines (if Lord is slightly quicker defensively, as has been claimed), but there will need to be more done. I’m sure the club will take the steps that they can.

 

[Faucon Bleu]

We are cooked, Hawks will smash us next week, never going to be a contender. Too many passengers, injury prone players, no speed, no depth, no skill the list is long. Play one quarter and think they have done well, has been happening for years, I'm usually pretty positive but **** this is bad.

 

[Benaly28]

I really like Elijah BUT that ‘moment’ that he burnt Charlie running into goal instead of an easy handball is symbolic of our football team.


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[btdg]

The last three weeks represents some of the dumbest coaching I have ever witnessed. We've torched a 2 game break in second spot and now look likely to miss finals.

All season we have played a front half of the field game, based around winning the ball quickly at contests, belting it forward, keeping our players 1-v-1 and using a very high forward press to lock it in with multiple small forwards around the two bigs. We play endurance, defensive wings (Hollands/Cottrell/Acres) and rely on them to cover enormous amounts of ground without the ball. We have played a highly mobile backline with players who can interchange (Kemp/McGovern/Weitering/Newman) - and while they might give up size, it doesn't matter as long as we put on forward pressure and the ball isn't coming to their opponents advantage. The idea is to win territory, and if we do have to move the ball all our defenders are generally good kicks who can hit a target in the centre of the ground, then we handball and scramble it forward from there. We were the number one team for turnover differential, and when our midfield was pounding teams with big bodies (Cripps/Hewett/Kennedy) and had De Koning in form as almost an extra mid to help, we looked amazing. The risk with that style was if fast opponents got 'out the back', or if teams picked us apart with precision kicking and could exploit our smaller backline. Ok, but we were smashing everyone.

Some key measures here: vs Geelong (our last big win) we laid 22 tackles inside 50, and our small/medium forwards -Cincotta (playing as a defensive forward on Stewart), Fogarty, Owies, E Hollands, Williams and Fantasia laid 24 tackles.

Then the GWS game happened - TDK hurt his ankle early and got smashed around by Briggs, while not really being able to play that extra mid role. They have some of the best ball users in the league, picked our press apart, Hogan took some big marks on Kemp/McGovern, and we lost - by two goals, away, to a likely top 4 team. Big deal, right?

So the next week, Voss starts messing around. We play two rucks vs Bulldogs for the first time in eons, which means a resting ruck forward, and less forward pressure. This is compounded by playing an underdone Cottrell in a forward/wing role and an early injury to Williams (who had been great as a small forward). Oh, and we dropped Hewett - Mr Consistency and our best defensive mid - to bring in an underdone Cerra, play Kennedy as the sub so that Cincotta can play midfield... we still keep our same structure, but we're a bit all over the place, and in particular, they are able to move the ball deep to their big forwards. We lose by two goals, to a team that has subsequently smashed all comers, despite being off.

Two losses, some unusual circumstances, good opponents.

So the logical thing to do is to completely change the structure and play a loose man behind the ball, which we do the following week against North.

The problem with this is that our personnel are totally wrong for this. Doing this makes it much harder to put pressure up the ground - other teams can just simply run around our small forwards using their spare man. And with the current team, we struggle to move the ball. If you have a spare back, so does the other team, and so you can't just belt it up the middle to the big blokes - it'll get picked off. You have to spread the field, use your wings offensively, and have multiple marking and leading targets to play through. But we don't. Our wings are defensive and have shaky disposal - particularly given Acres got injured so it was Cottrell/Hollands. None of our small forwards are leading/marking targets. If Charlie/Harry come up the ground to help move the ball then there is no-one to kick to. If we blaze long Charlie/Harry have to play 1vs2 (or even 3 in the air).

So we narrowly beat North, but look unconvincing. Then we try the same thing against Port, and it also doesn't work. We hold Port to 79 points but kick our lowest score for the year. Obviously missing McKay and TDK for this makes it harder.

And then playing Collingwood we do the same again, allowing Howe and Moore (who had been horribly out of form) to play 2v1 vs our tall forwards. I can't remember us sitting back so deep and having to hold out like that all season - but this is a particularly negative game plan against the team in 11th spot. We manage 6 goals in three quarters and find ourselves 5 goals behind. When we do go forward, we're either turning it over trying to find outnumbered targets, or taking long range, low percentage shots at goal. In the last quarter, we go back to our original style, match them for numbers around the ground and stage a comeback, ultimately having a shot to win. The recipe was there all along - we just took too long to get back to what has worked for us so well.

Back to those key measures: at 3/4 time last night we had 1 tackle inside 50, and Fogarty/Cottrell/Owies/Motlop/Martin had combined for 2 tackles total. There's the game right there - complete lack of ability to put on forward pressure. In the last quarter we manage 7 tackles inside 50, and our small forwards contribute 4 of those.

The key thing for me is that there is still hope. If we go back to what we were doing - big bodied midfield, forward pressure focus - we should still rally and make finals. Voss has shown the abiltiy to respond and in particular, keep morale up and get players performing well with their backs against the wall, so hopefully this can be turned around.

 

[baggersforflaggers]

The heading is “ Is our season over”.

Short answer - yes.

On our form, no intelligent football watcher could think we could beat Hawks. To fast and furious for us. We have lost 4 of 5, they are like us last year. 9 of 11. That’s a loss.

West coast, should be a win, but over there and out of form. Who knows. Let’s say win.

Saints are in better form then us, playing at marvel which they love and we hate. And they have the wood over us over the last 5 years. Like the pies. So that’s a loss.

Those results mean we miss finals.

Wasted year where we might have a Coleman and Brownlow winner and 3/4 all Australians and with 7 games to go we’re 6 points clear in 2nd.

If that’s not an internal royal commission then I don’t know what is.

Someone or multiple people need tp get sacked if it pans out as above.

Fingers crossed we win next 7!!!!!

 

[bigm386]

Talent is there in reality. Question's around form, effort of some and utilisation of that talent continue.

 

[Benaly28]

Conditional.Football.Team


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[Ahuitzotl]

I’ve seen some blame the ump here, if Gov was injured, dazed, groggy, head thumping or whatever from a head knock, it’s on him to take the kick or not.

Put some responsibility on our players

I would’ve sent on every member of the medical staff from doc to bandage assistant at that stage of the game. I’d have them do onfield tests for concussion, neck injury, eyesight, balance, covid, rabies and Rocky Mountain spotted fever. Siren gone, no time factor. If Gov is good, it gives him time to gather himself. If bad, he’s straight off and closest player gets the kick. A bit of time wouldn’t have hurt. He had all the time in the world.

At the very least, it would’ve annoyed all the Collingwood fans…

 

[DangerousD]

Totally agree.
CFC could have won the game by 30-40 points if they had taken their moments (not missing from the square), not hit the post 3 times and had a fair shake from the officials.

they scored on rebound and we did nothing to stop it. poor strategy.
They score cause umps get scared about big Cox. poor officiating. Some other doggy decisions as well.

filth are getting back to their running gunning game, but our class nearly beat them despite almost no effect from Walsh and King Charlie

30-40 points, surely having a laugh.

We had two more scoring shots than them, two, not twenty, their kicking for goal for crap as well.

 

[charred_fate]

We come up just a bit short across the board imo. The result is that at times we can produce best-in-league footy but the combination means we can’t be trusted to do it consistently.

• Players lacking confidence, drive, ruthlessness.
• Coaches - strategy, structure, always lose the same way
• Fitness team
• Recruitment - list balance, drafting and trading, recruiting players with the right mindsets. It’s honestly hopeless that our 4th mids are slow B-graders. 11 years we’ve had to build a midfield around Cripps. SOS’s years were shite.

Despite this, I feel like we’re only a few players away from a list capable of being an unstoppable force. Though I can’t say I trust the recruiting team to get it right or the coaches to get the best out of them regardless.

Really feel for Cripps. Absolutely deserves better. He is the only one out there who looks and feels like a winner and it’s so obvious - backs himself and puts it all on the line as well. Too often it feels like Cripps v the opposition.

We have too many fragile minds and it was so obvious last night. Fitting end really.

We bombed 2022, we bombed first half of 2023, we may well bomb 2024. That’s a lot of underperforming and not a great record for Voss.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

I really like Elijah BUT that ‘moment’ that he burnt Charlie running into goal instead of an easy handball is symbolic of our football team.


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That was unforgivable, completely burnt him and took a really difficult shot

I don’t think a Pies player would ever do that

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

That is exactly my point.

The last quarter was a re-establshment of early season form.


we lost because of 3 posters, bad umpiring, and ruck non-dominance

we lost because we have a winger pretending to be an inside mid. A third tall pretending to be a key defender a half forward pretending to be a footballer a midfield coach pretending he knows he to set up a stoppage and a forward third coach pretending he knows what 'running patterns' are.

Watch the last minute again. There's a crumb chance for three small forwards and they all watched. None hit the crumb. They all stood and watched.

Over coached under confidence poor setup and forcing players into positions counter to their instinct.