2024 Rolling ALL-Australian Team

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WalshistheGOAT said:
Which is why Cripps is statistically going better, ahead on coaches votes, is the Brownlow favourite and is almost universally regarded as the nom for AA captain?

Perhaps you should watch some more games?
Click to expand...

Is Cripps statistically better? They look pretty similar to me.

1000031501.jpg

Neale on the left, Cripps on the right.
 
Last edited:
WalshistheGOAT said:
Which is why Cripps is statistically going better, ahead on coaches votes, is the Brownlow favourite and is almost universally regarded as the nom for AA captain?

Perhaps you should watch some more games?
Click to expand...
Stats are pretty even (really down to slight preferences on a few stats). Cripps is in second for Coaches votes- 6 votes ahead of Neale in 5th, they are 1/2 for favourites to Brownlow with 1 vote difference on the predictor.

On pretty much every measure they are both with very close distance of each other at the top of the pile. Both absolutely should be respected as some of the best players of the year and should feature highly in pretty much every award.

Although Neale does have a track record of being ignored in AA discussion (both at the Lions and Freo from memory).
 

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KissKiss said:
Stats are pretty even (really down to slight preferences on a few stats). Cripps is in second for Coaches votes- 6 votes ahead of Neale in 5th, they are 1/2 for favourites to Brownlow with 1 vote difference on the predictor.

On pretty much every measure they are both with very close distance of each other at the top of the pile. Both absolutely should be respected as some of the best players of the year and should feature highly in pretty much every award.

Although Neale does have a track record of being ignored in AA discussion (both at the Lions and Freo from memory).
Click to expand...
Which goes to my point about the comment made that Neale has been "way better than Cripps" being utter nonsense. Cripps is leading pretty much every measure this season, by small margins yes, but still leading. At most you could make the argument that they've been on par, but way worse according to Lions fans is a laughably dumb take.

Out of curiosity though, when measuring a mids impact what would be the top 6-7 stats you'd look at to judge their output/influence?
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
Which goes to my point about the comment made that Neale has been "way better than Cripps" being utter nonsense. Cripps is leading pretty much every measure this season, by small margins yes, but still leading. At most you could make the argument that they've been on par, but way worse according to Lions fans is a laughably dumb take.

Out of curiosity though, when measuring a mids impact what would be the top 6-7 stats you'd look at to judge their output/influence?
Click to expand...
Oh I agree I dont think Neale is way ahead but I think he is in the mix of the top 5 or so mids this year.

The more I read into stats the more I realise how none of them tell the full story and frustrate me more and more. And it makes it so hard when you realise how many different players and teams focus their efforts. Like I dont degenerate inside mids for low metres gained as their role is get the ball to other players (although I'd love an assisted metres gained stat).

Overall though the main things I'd have to probably consider for mids:
  • How much you get the ball - cant get away from their job is possess the ball. I'd like to consider quality of ball use here but not sure if disposal efficiency or retention rate is the best to use. Pure disposals isnt good enough alone
  • How much you help get the ball forward for your team - some combo of assisted metres gained or pure metres gained, rebound or inside 50 are kinda meaningless on their own but do help describe moving it all over the ground
  • How much you help your team score - goals, goals assists and score involvements/chains/launches all sort of matter
  • Defensive pressure is under-rated - love some kind of tackles or pressure rating
  • And finally I'd love some kind of +/- score in AFL. How much do you influence scores or clearances or something while being on the ground (but not necessarily by you alone). I reckon their are a lot of players and mids who set their team up more than they are acknowledged for, and similarly lot of guys who have a lot of the ball but dont do anything with it.
 
KissKiss said:
Oh I agree I dont think Neale is way ahead but I think he is in the mix of the top 5 or so mids this year.

The more I read into stats the more I realise how none of them tell the full story and frustrate me more and more. And it makes it so hard when you realise how many different players and teams focus their efforts. Like I dont degenerate inside mids for low metres gained as their role is get the ball to other players (although I'd love an assisted metres gained stat).

Overall though the main things I'd have to probably consider for mids:
  • How much you get the ball - cant get away from their job is possess the ball. I'd like to consider quality of ball use here but not sure if disposal efficiency or retention rate is the best to use. Pure disposals isnt good enough alone
  • How much you help get the ball forward for your team - some combo of assisted metres gained or pure metres gained, rebound or inside 50 are kinda meaningless on their own but do help describe moving it all over the ground
  • How much you help your team score - goals, goals assists and score involvements/chains/launches all sort of matter
  • Defensive pressure is under-rated - love some kind of tackles or pressure rating
  • And finally I'd love some kind of +/- score in AFL. How much do you influence scores or clearances or something while being on the ground (but not necessarily by you alone). I reckon their are a lot of players and mids who set their team up more than they are acknowledged for, and similarly lot of guys who have a lot of the ball but dont do anything with it.
Click to expand...
All the things you are asking for are allegedly included in AFL Player Ratings.
Unfortunately Champion Data doesn't seem as readily available for this as it should.

There are others that come up with overall rankings.

AFL Player Statistics

AFL player statistics.
www.wheeloratings.com www.wheeloratings.com
www.statsinsider.com.au

2024 SI AFL Player Ratings | Player Rankings

Get ahead of the game with Stats Insider's 2024 AFL Player Ratings. Discover comprehensive player rankings and stats to inform your footy predictions.
www.statsinsider.com.au www.statsinsider.com.au

Every time I look at one of these they seem to rank Bontempelli ahead.

Perhaps he is due to be AA Captain.
 
Bulldog Joe said:
All the things you are asking for are allegedly included in AFL Player Ratings.
Unfortunately Champion Data doesn't seem as readily available for this as it should.

There are others that come up with overall rankings.

AFL Player Statistics

AFL player statistics.
www.wheeloratings.com www.wheeloratings.com
www.statsinsider.com.au

2024 SI AFL Player Ratings | Player Rankings

Get ahead of the game with Stats Insider's 2024 AFL Player Ratings. Discover comprehensive player rankings and stats to inform your footy predictions.
www.statsinsider.com.au www.statsinsider.com.au

Every time I look at one of these they seem to rank Bontempelli ahead.

Perhaps he is due to be AA Captain.
Click to expand...
There is so much they hold back behind their paywall. I dont think I fully agree with the ratings as it pops up some strange results but its hard to judge with out seeing the detail
 
JasRulz63 said:
Is Cripps statistically better? They look pretty similar to me.

View attachment 2072976

Neale on the left, Cripps on the right.
Click to expand...

If anything Neale is marginally ahead and coming home with a wet sail. Though with Rayner in God mode potentially taking some votes off him. Cripps is lucky to be surrounded by spuds.
 
KissKiss said:
There is so much they hold back behind their paywall. I dont think I fully agree with the ratings as it pops up some strange results but its hard to judge with out seeing the detail
Click to expand...
The ratings do become difficult for us mere mortals, but they do have something there is so much more to footy than the fans generally comprehend.
 
Sphynx said:
You can do what you like.

Nobody said there's a blueprint to what an AA ruckman is.

I couldn't care less what Dean Cox was either, it's irrelevant, Gawn certainly isn't Dean Cox on the outside either. Does that make him less valuable? No.

Xerri is basically playing like an AA version of Mumford at his best at the moment.

There's certainly been value put on a physical ruckman that impact around stoppage with follow up, tackles and clearances since the end of time. It's why I think Xerri is being elevated why he is, people realise that the stats aren't the be all and end all with him, as there's some certain intangibles for that type of ruckman.

Xerri has hardly been Peter Street around the ground either. He's still averaging 17.1 disposals and 0.4 goals per game. Whilst it might not be Gawns 19.2 disposals and 0.6 goals per game, it's pretty marginal and Gawn has set a very high bar.

Remembering this may be close to Gawn's best statistical year since 2019, despite his AA numbers, he's rarely been the absolute best ruckman each year, that generally went to NN (when he got on the park), so hypocritical in a sense from you also.

Regardless, whether you deem it bumbling or not, a center clearance is one of the most valuable stats in the game and their clearance difference IS a center clearance, not some rushed clearance on a throw in on the wing.


Their hitout stats are very close.

Remembering I was merely responding to you reeling off 8 stat categories with zero context and stating there is a massive difference between the two.

There's not. It's pretty much marks/contested marks/goals vs clearance/pressure/tackles. The rest is pretty much breakeven in most respects. Xerri is hardly shit in this respect, his cm and goal stats are virtually the same as McInerney and he's playing in the 17th placed side.


You stating tackles, pressure and clearance is irrelevant for a ruck because Dean Cox didn't do it 20 years ago (a completely different style of ruckman for starters) is a strawman argument.


Ultimately North's pre bye form might cost him a AA jersey. As with the more competitive performances, has seen a massive up tick in things like hitouts to advantage, possions, intercepts etc from him in a side that has averaged losing margins of a goal rather than 10 goals.

Since the bye he's averaging 17.6 ratings points, 126 SC, 18.75 disposals, 6 clearances, .9 contested marks, 4 intercept marks, 36 hitouts, 8 tackles, 0.5 goal assists, 0.5 goals per game.

You can see why there's a groundswell with 2-3 months to end the season with that formline and his bruising game style.

View attachment 2072946
Click to expand...
We value different things in rucks, although I like Xerri as a physical ruckman.

Gawns sh1ts on Naitanui in every historical major ruck stat, but, naturally, the two stats you self-servingly love, i.e. tackles and clearances. They're well down my totem pole when it comes to things I value in a ruck.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
Which goes to my point about the comment made that Neale has been "way better than Cripps" being utter nonsense. Cripps is leading pretty much every measure this season, by small margins yes, but still leading. At most you could make the argument that they've been on par, but way worse according to Lions fans is a laughably dumb take.

Out of curiosity though, when measuring a mids impact what would be the top 6-7 stats you'd look at to judge their output/influence?
Click to expand...
neale is way more impactful.

watch the games walshy.
 

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KissKiss said:
Oh I agree I dont think Neale is way ahead but I think he is in the mix of the top 5 or so mids this year.

The more I read into stats the more I realise how none of them tell the full story and frustrate me more and more. And it makes it so hard when you realise how many different players and teams focus their efforts. Like I dont degenerate inside mids for low metres gained as their role is get the ball to other players (although I'd love an assisted metres gained stat).

Overall though the main things I'd have to probably consider for mids:
  • How much you get the ball - cant get away from their job is possess the ball. I'd like to consider quality of ball use here but not sure if disposal efficiency or retention rate is the best to use. Pure disposals isnt good enough alone
  • How much you help get the ball forward for your team - some combo of assisted metres gained or pure metres gained, rebound or inside 50 are kinda meaningless on their own but do help describe moving it all over the ground
  • How much you help your team score - goals, goals assists and score involvements/chains/launches all sort of matter
  • Defensive pressure is under-rated - love some kind of tackles or pressure rating
  • And finally I'd love some kind of +/- score in AFL. How much do you influence scores or clearances or something while being on the ground (but not necessarily by you alone). I reckon their are a lot of players and mids who set their team up more than they are acknowledged for, and similarly lot of guys who have a lot of the ball but dont do anything with it.
Click to expand...
This is why Matt Crouch isn't rated. JHF last weekend got 27 disposals, highest was 32. JHF was more impacting and damaging. Would have been best on ground had it not been for Willem Drew dominating all round..
 
Trav 20 said:
We value different things in rucks, although I like Xerri as a physical ruckman.

Gawns sh1ts on Naitanui in every historical major ruck stat, but, naturally, the two stats you self-servingly love, i.e. tackles and clearances. They're well down my totem pole when it comes to things I value in a ruck.
Click to expand...
You don't value clearance from a ruck man?
 

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