2024 Rolling ALL-Australian Team

[Art Vandelay_]

Jarman Impey has been the best small defender in the comp the last 3 months and I'll fight anyone who disagrees.

Has been a rock in defense and damaging on rebound.

Won't matter. Although I'd argue Walker from Fremantle.

Small defender
Wingmen.

Invisible to AA selectors.

 

[hawkman]

Won't matter. Although I'd argue Walker from Fremantle.

Small defender
Wingmen.

Invisible to AA selectors.

And if Moore gets pushed out by a midfielder you can add HFF's to the list

 

[Lingsface]

Won't matter. Although I'd argue Walker from Fremantle.

Small defender
Wingmen.

Invisible to AA selectors.

Zach Guthrie qualify? or is he medium?

I think A Mcgrath has been the best small defender for the year.

 

[Sphynx]

I'm really struggling to see how that Xerri game on paper isn't close to the highest rated game of the year, let alone 2nd to Gawn this round alone by CD.

Vs Gawn alone this round:

Xerri had +8 disposals, +3 inside 50's, +8 CP, +6 clearances, +1 marks, +1 contested marks, +10 tackles, +15 pressure acts, +6 score involvements, +10 ground ball gets and +3 hitouts.

Gawn was the #1 rated player of the round with a huge 30.0 rating vs Xerri #2 @ 26.8

One of the biggest discrepancies of the year for one of the more comparable positions and roles. It's like they got the ratings back to front.

 

[PhatBoy]

I'm really struggling to see how that Xerri game on paper isn't close to the highest rated game of the year, let alone 2nd to Gawn this round alone by CD.

Vs Gawn alone this round:

Xerri had +8 disposals, +3 inside 50's, +8 CP, +6 clearances, +1 marks, +1 contested marks, +10 tackles, +15 pressure acts, +6 score involvements, +10 ground ball gets and +3 hitouts.

Gawn was the #1 rated player of the round with a huge 30.0 rating vs Xerri #2 @ 26.8

One of the biggest discrepancies of the year for one of the more comparable positions and roles. It's like they got the ratings back to front.

Do not EVER. Ever. Question the player ratings.

 

[Sphynx]

Do not EVER. Ever. Question the player ratings.

Normally I can make some sense of it, as they weight damage per possession above everything, around score involvements, goal assists, DE%.

But these are ruckman and Xerri's SI numbers were huge as well as big differences in key categories like clearances, tackles, contested marks etc.

Pretty much the only advantage Gawn had was in +3 intercept marks.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Zach Guthrie qualify? or is he medium?

I think A Mcgrath has been the best small defender for the year.

Small.
Good chance to win our BnF. Underrated player.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

Enter JHF

 

[Guardian Hawk]

From a Hawthorn perspective:

The only players of relevance are:

Dylan Moore: Should be in in my view but starting to wonder if his unselfishness might cost him a spot? Had another 29 possessions on the weekend, the most score involvements on the ground (11), the most metres gained, 7 inside 50's and another couple of goal assists but didn't kick any himself. Is now 9 and 8 goals behind Stengle and Greene respectively. Greene kicked 1 this weekend but only had 4 touches and Stengle had 7 possessions, 4 clangers and no goals (obviously Moore works up the ground a bit more than those guys). I think Moore is the best half forward in the game but will the selectors focus on the goal tally? I hope not, especially considering Moore has the most score involvements of any forward and the 2nd most goal assists in the comp, whilst averaging over 20 possessions and does more defensively (tackles, tackles inside 50 and pressure acts).

James Sicily: An even more confusing one - I'm just not sure where he stands given his unique role as a key defender who is also our primary rebounder. Been incredible again but has missed 3 games and been swung forward (to great effect) but which effects his 'defensive stat averages'. As always, played on a mix of opponents on the weekend - primarily Curnow who has 2 touches in the half that he was on for. Switched around (primarily McKay after that who did not add to his goal tally from that point). Sicily had 30 possessions himself, 10 marks, 7 intercepts, 6 score involvements and 500+ metres gained.

 

[Orange crush]

From a Hawthorn perspective:

The only players of relevance are:

Dylan Moore: Should be in in my view but starting to wonder if his unselfishness might cost him a spot? Had another 29 possessions on the weekend, the most score involvements on the ground (11), the most metres gained, 7 inside 50's and another couple of goal assists but didn't kick any himself. Is now 9 and 8 goals behind Stengle and Greene respectively. Greene kicked 1 this weekend but only had 4 touches and Stengle had 7 possessions, 4 clangers and no goals (obviously Moore works up the ground a bit more than those guys). I think Moore is the best half forward in the game but will the selectors focus on the goal tally? I hope not, especially considering Moore has the most score involvements of any forward and the 2nd most goal assists in the comp, whilst averaging over 20 possessions and does more defensively (tackles, tackles inside 50 and pressure acts).

James Sicily: An even more confusing one - I'm just not sure where he stands given his unique role as a key defender who is also our primary rebounder. Been incredible again but has missed 3 games and been swung forward (to great effect) but which effects his 'defensive stat averages'. As always, played on a mix of opponents on the weekend - primarily Curnow who has 2 touches in the half that he was on for. Switched around (primarily McKay after that who did not add to his goal tally from that point). Sicily had 30 possessions himself, 10 marks, 7 intercepts, 6 score involvements and 500+ metres gained.

It is very close between Moore, Stengle and Greene …. Seriously just a coin flip, but Stengle seems in the box seat

 

[Maddo11]

RE: JHF, he is completely ready to tear the league apart next year. Has that Sam Mitchell-esque poise, and sublime skill with both legs.

For this year though he's not one of the midfield locks, but he'd definitely be in that next group where you could pick any of them and be able to make a case for it. Serong, Brayshaw, Butters, Merret, Libba, Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

, LDU etc.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

It is very close between Moore, Stengle and Greene …. Seriously just a coin flip, but Stengle seems in the box seat

It's a funny one as Stengle is a pure forward pocket whilst Moore is a genuine half forward flanker so both should be selected for the positions they play.

All the data backs this up with Stengle kicking 9 more goals (an extra 0.4 a game) but not doing much outside of that whilst Moore averages 20+ disposals, 1.4 goals, 1.3 goal assists, 3.5 tackles and 7+ score involvements a game.

I suppose it's a point of discussion as you never know how many actual forwards they will pick with their propensity to put midfielders on the half forward flanks.

This season Chad Warner (31 goals) and Marcus Bontempelli (30 goals) are the obvious candidates.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

It's a funny one as Stengle is a pure forward pocket whilst Moore is a genuine half forward flanker so both should be selected for the positions they play.

All the data backs this up with Stengle kicking 9 more goals (an extra 0.4 a game) but not doing much outside of that whilst Moore averages 20+ disposals, 1.4 goals, 1.3 goal assists, 3.5 tackles and 7+ score involvements a game.

I suppose it's a point of discussion as you never know how many actual forwards they will pick with their propensity to put midfielders on the half forward flanks.

This season Chad Warner (31 goals) and Marcus Bontempelli (30 goals) are the obvious candidates.

Personally and I say this as a Swans fan, put Warner on the bench, I'm so over these selectors plonking mids forward, Bont I can get he's started games as a genuine forward. Go on name the games Chad has started forward for us (literally our half forwards are Hayward and Wicks/Paps whatever on the other side), Heeney is an even worse shot. Both are (and have been) centre square mids, who push forward, Chad more so but both do it.

It should be Bont on one Moore on the other. Rankine would have had a slot if he wasn't suspended for a month, you'd assume he's played his way out of it.

The forgotten one is Toby Greene, he hasn't has a season like last year for sure, but he's still had a fantastic year, that selection wouldn't be terrible, especially if they come top 3 on the table.

 

[Orange crush]

It's a funny one as Stengle is a pure forward pocket whilst Moore is a genuine half forward flanker so both should be selected for the positions they play.

All the data backs this up with Stengle kicking 9 more goals (an extra 0.4 a game) but not doing much outside of that whilst Moore averages 20+ disposals, 1.4 goals, 1.3 goal assists, 3.5 tackles and 7+ score involvements a game.

I suppose it's a point of discussion as you never know how many actual forwards they will pick with their propensity to put midfielders on the half forward flanks.

This season Chad Warner (31 goals) and Marcus Bontempelli (30 goals) are the obvious candidates.

They’ll bang Bont and Heeney on the hffs

 

[LSRU]

Bont should be starting in the middle and in my view named captain.
There is levels to this stuff. Make the squad of 40, make the team. Be recognised as one of the very best mids this year.
To slap him on the HFF is almost punishment for kicking goals.

 

[HeHateMe]

It's a funny one as Stengle is a pure forward pocket whilst Moore is a genuine half forward flanker so both should be selected for the positions they play.

All the data backs this up with Stengle kicking 9 more goals (an extra 0.4 a game) but not doing much outside of that whilst Moore averages 20+ disposals, 1.4 goals, 1.3 goal assists, 3.5 tackles and 7+ score involvements a game.

I suppose it's a point of discussion as you never know how many actual forwards they will pick with their propensity to put midfielders on the half forward flanks.

This season Chad Warner (31 goals) and Marcus Bontempelli (30 goals) are the obvious candidates.

Was in interesting argument last year when cats fans were arguing Miers case. He was playing as a HFF as well really well, I presented the argument on who is better Miers 2023 or Stengle 2022. Many said Miers, similar argument again this year better Moore and Stengles 2024 seasons, only Moore has arguably been better than Miers 2023.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Bont should be starting in the middle and in my view named captain.
There is levels to this stuff. Make the squad of 40, make the team. Be recognised as one of the very best mids this year.
To slap him on the HFF is almost punishment for kicking goals.

Was “quiet” yesterday with 25 and 2.

Should be the first picked.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Was in interesting argument last year when cats fans were arguing Miers case. He was playing as a HFF as well really well, I presented the argument on who is better Miers 2023 or Stengle 2022. Many said Miers, similar argument again this year better Moore and Stengles 2024 seasons, only Moore has arguably been better than Miers 2023.

Agreed, although I think the argument against Miers last season that whilst he was setting up others super well, he only kicked 7 goals for the whole season, which does make it harder/less likely to pick him as a forward.

I think Moore's 29 goals is not quite the same barrier, especially when the 'set up' work is as good/if not better than Miers last year.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

They’ll bang Bont and Heeney on the hffs

Heeney is a midfielder my word can we stop putting the bloke where he played 2 years ago.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Bont should be starting in the middle and in my view named captain.
There is levels to this stuff. Make the squad of 40, make the team. Be recognised as one of the very best mids this year.
To slap him on the HFF is almost punishment for kicking goals.

At least Bont has actually started a few games forward I agree with you it’s a slap in the face of HFF’s who may as well not play the game.

 

[Mr Meow]

It's a funny one as Stengle is a pure forward pocket whilst Moore is a genuine half forward flanker so both should be selected for the positions they play.

All the data backs this up with Stengle kicking 9 more goals (an extra 0.4 a game) but not doing much outside of that whilst Moore averages 20+ disposals, 1.4 goals, 1.3 goal assists, 3.5 tackles and 7+ score involvements a game.

I suppose it's a point of discussion as you never know how many actual forwards they will pick with their propensity to put midfielders on the half forward flanks.

This season Chad Warner (31 goals) and Marcus Bontempelli (30 goals) are the obvious candidates.

It's a bit lazy to say that when over half of his score involvements are still creating scores for others (3.5 per game compared to his 2.5 scoring shots a game).

A deep lying forward pocket will always win much less of the ball but it doesn't mean they are playing their role any worse. Miers is our "Moore type player", he just hasn't had as much direct scoreboard impact which is why he isn't in contention.

Moore's had a better season than Stengle but much for some bizarre reason in AA teams there seems to be a Geelong/Hawthorn comparison where only one player from the two is allowed in the team, when both are actually valid conclusions. You're well aware of the other case a couple of years ago.

 

[Orange crush]

Heeney is a midfielder my word can we stop putting the bloke where he played 2 years ago.

Absolutely but it helps them squeeze in a couple more mids

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

I'm really struggling to see how that Xerri game on paper isn't close to the highest rated game of the year, let alone 2nd to Gawn this round alone by CD.

Vs Gawn alone this round:

Xerri had +8 disposals, +3 inside 50's, +8 CP, +6 clearances, +1 marks, +1 contested marks, +10 tackles, +15 pressure acts, +6 score involvements, +10 ground ball gets and +3 hitouts.

Gawn was the #1 rated player of the round with a huge 30.0 rating vs Xerri #2 @ 26.8

One of the biggest discrepancies of the year for one of the more comparable positions and roles. It's like they got the ratings back to front.

The ruck spots will be hard this year i feel.

Gawn has been great, so has Xerri but Rowan Marshall has been huge this year.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

It's a bit lazy to say that when over half of his score involvements are still creating scores for others (3.5 per game compared to his 2.5 scoring shots a game).

A deep lying forward pocket will always win much less of the ball but it doesn't mean they are playing their role any worse. Miers is our "Moore type player", he just hasn't had as much direct scoreboard impact which is why he isn't in contention.

Moore's had a better season than Stengle but much for some bizarre reason in AA teams there seems to be a Geelong/Hawthorn comparison where only one player from the two is allowed in the team, when both are actually valid conclusions. You're well aware of the other case a couple of years ago.

Totally agree. Was merely using the data to back up my assertion that Stengle is a genuine forward pocket player. Our forward pocket is Watson/Breust and Ginnivan (who also pushes up the ground a bit). Your half forward is more Miers as you've said. Different roles. I think most agree but the potential selection problem is the AA selectors, who often put mids on the half forward flank, meaning only one smaller forward is selected. Sometimes it is "somewhat" justifiable when there are no standout forward flankers but hoping given the strength of some performers this year (including Moore and Stengle) that this is the season that they put the spare mid on the bench (or at the very least, the forward that missed out on the bench). It would be refreshing to see Stengle in the pocket, Moore on the flank and the 6th and 7th best mids on the bench.

 

[00Stinger]

And Matt Rowell and Noah Anderson have about 30 more coaches votes than Harry Sheezel.

Less contested possessions, less clearances, less center clearances, less tackles. There’s a chance Xerri finishes ahead in a few other statistical categories as well given how close they are.

Xerri’s stats aren’t representative of just the last few rounds either. Weak argument

tackles is a big stat for ruckmen........

Contested possesions there is a variance of 0.4 per game. Surprised that you didnt point out that Xerris averages more handballs per game lol